Cause and effect have nothing to do with “fault” - the Wests support for Euromaidan lead to the annexation of Crimea which lead to the conflict in the Donbas which lead to the invasion. Things happen for reasons, Russia didn’t just randomly go crazy.
Stop moralizing and start looking at events materially.
dude, you JUST said THIS in a previous comment, lmao:
Pointing out the role of the West in provoking Russia…
so which is it?
Stop moralizing and start looking at events materially.
oh, so when you can’t answer to your own hypocrisy, you move the goalposts? you’re doing exactly what I said above:
rabidly defending Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine, for example, making some pretty ridiculous claims and praising Putin with a litany of logical fallacies
Okay, the fact that Russia was provoked doesn’t mean they aren’t also at fault and it doesn’t mean the invasion was justified. All I’m saying is the West shares responsibility for using Ukraine as a proxy for its conflict with Russia. That’s why fault is irrelevant - both sides share responsibility and the war will only end if both sides negotiate.
You refuse to accept that the West played any role at all! As far as you’re concerned, Russians are orcs and we should fight this war to the last Ukrainian.
Okay, the fact that Russia was provoked doesn’t mean they aren’t also at fault and it doesn’t mean the invasion was justified. All I’m saying is the West shares responsibility for using Ukraine as a proxy for its conflict with Russia.
bullshit. first of all, you can’t keep throwing around “The West” as a blame-all for everything you don’t like when specific actors do specific things and expect to have a rational discussion bout geopolitics— also, cite some evidence for these claims, please. second, you also can’t “both-sides” this and expect me to take this seriously— whomever may have had a role in Crimean unrest in 2014 sure as hell isn’t tantamount to an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation, nor do I concede that there’s shared blame in that act. it’s on a whole other level of magnitude, and Putin clearly used it as a flimsy pretext for an action he’d been planning since he took power a years before.
That’s why fault is irrelevant - both sides share responsibility and the war will only end if both sides negotiate.
and third: your attempts to deflect blame away from Russia/Putin for the illegal and brutal invasion of Ukraine is transparent, and, despite your repeated claims that it’s not justified, you obviously think it is or your wouldn’t be so vociferously defending it and Russia for doing so.
You refuse to accept that the West played any role at all!
I never said that, but by making such false claims, you make yourself and you false position appear sympathetic to the reader. it’s an old propaganda tactic.
As far as you’re concerned, Russians are orcs and we should fight this war to the last Ukrainian.
more playing the victim by making up things I never said. for someone who keeps saying that Russia wasn’t justified, you keep taking their side and painting them as victims despite their illegal invasion, history of brutality and long list of war crimes.
and, despite your repeated claims that it’s not justified, you obviously think it is
Since you’ve already decided my position for me I see no reason to continue engaging with you. You’ve already won the argument we’re having inside your head and nothing I say matters at this point because no matter what I say, obviously what I mean is something else.
You’re very confused lol
go on, explain that
Pointing out the role of the West in provoking Russia is not the same as saying Russia’s aggressive reaction is good or justified.
oh, so now it’s The West™®©’s fault that Russia illegally invaded another country?
lmao
Cause and effect have nothing to do with “fault” - the Wests support for Euromaidan lead to the annexation of Crimea which lead to the conflict in the Donbas which lead to the invasion. Things happen for reasons, Russia didn’t just randomly go crazy.
Stop moralizing and start looking at events materially.
dude, you JUST said THIS in a previous comment, lmao:
so which is it?
oh, so when you can’t answer to your own hypocrisy, you move the goalposts? you’re doing exactly what I said above:
confused? looks like I was precisely correct.
Okay, the fact that Russia was provoked doesn’t mean they aren’t also at fault and it doesn’t mean the invasion was justified. All I’m saying is the West shares responsibility for using Ukraine as a proxy for its conflict with Russia. That’s why fault is irrelevant - both sides share responsibility and the war will only end if both sides negotiate.
You refuse to accept that the West played any role at all! As far as you’re concerned, Russians are orcs and we should fight this war to the last Ukrainian.
bullshit. first of all, you can’t keep throwing around “The West” as a blame-all for everything you don’t like when specific actors do specific things and expect to have a rational discussion bout geopolitics— also, cite some evidence for these claims, please. second, you also can’t “both-sides” this and expect me to take this seriously— whomever may have had a role in Crimean unrest in 2014 sure as hell isn’t tantamount to an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation, nor do I concede that there’s shared blame in that act. it’s on a whole other level of magnitude, and Putin clearly used it as a flimsy pretext for an action he’d been planning since he took power a years before.
and third: your attempts to deflect blame away from Russia/Putin for the illegal and brutal invasion of Ukraine is transparent, and, despite your repeated claims that it’s not justified, you obviously think it is or your wouldn’t be so vociferously defending it and Russia for doing so.
I never said that, but by making such false claims, you make yourself and you false position appear sympathetic to the reader. it’s an old propaganda tactic.
more playing the victim by making up things I never said. for someone who keeps saying that Russia wasn’t justified, you keep taking their side and painting them as victims despite their illegal invasion, history of brutality and long list of war crimes.
so, which is it?
Since you’ve already decided my position for me I see no reason to continue engaging with you. You’ve already won the argument we’re having inside your head and nothing I say matters at this point because no matter what I say, obviously what I mean is something else.