I’ve been watching a few American TV shows and it blows my mind that they put up with such atrocious working terms and conditions.
One show was about a removal company where any damage at all, even not the workers fault, is taken out of their tips. There’s no insurance from the multimillion dollar business. As they’re not paid a living wage the guy on the show had examples of when he and his family went weeks with barely any income and this was considered normal?!
Another example was a cooking show where the prize was tickets to an NFL game. The lady who won explained that she’d be waiting in the car so her sons could experience their first live game, because she couldn’t otherwise afford a ticket to go. They give tickets for football games away for free to people where I live for no reason at all…
Yet another example was where the workers got a $5k tip from their company and the reactions were as if this amount of money was even remotely life changing. It saddens me to think the average Americans life could be made so much better with such a relatively small amount of money and they don’t unionize and demand far better. The company in question was on track to make a billion bloody dollars while their workers are on the poverty line and don’t even have all their teeth?
It’s not actually this bad and the average American lives a pretty good life like we’re led to believe, right?
There’s just a lot of inequality in the US that is both socially and politically unacceptable in the rest of the developed world. Extremes are more accepted here.
There are more extremely rich people than you would see in other Western countries and and many, many more extremely poor people than in other Western countries. Alleviating that would mean implementing policies to redistribute wealth that many Americans are not willing to implement, especially conservatives.
The US basically sacrifices the good of the many for the great of the few.
Every American is a rich man who is temporarily down on his luck and making big societal changes would screw them over when they finally get their money.
I forget who said it, “The poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
Honestly was shocked when I first visited. On TV the streets are wide there and everyone has enough to eat.
Visit (and at this point I have spent time in about half their states) and it is a different story. Broken roads in disrepair. Beggars everywhere, fighting for the chance to ask you for food, water, anything. We stopped at traffic lights and a teenage boy shaking with palsy knocked on our windows begging for food. People mobbed me in one city because I was carrying a bag of apples and they hoped for one as my bag split. I was careful never to give, but was still followed everywhere as an obvious tourist. The only place I did not get food begging on every single streetcorner was Manhattan. I am told this is because they deported beggars to the mainland there. Heartless sods in a capital that gets snow told me “there’s less beggars in winter, the cold gets them”.
I think you’re right about the jobs, too. There were roadworkers on those broken roads, using jackhammers without ear protection, or even foot protection. I was told it was because they are “free” to bring their own PPE. They looked injured and sick but determined.
Shops were similar. Waitstaff looked half starved, serving the rich in an obsequious yet hateful way unnervingly like a roleplaying slave. It was disgusting, and ruined many a meal by constant disingenious artificial attention.
You won’t regret visiting, but it is a ridiculously heartless broken place. The most expensive travel insurance too, for reasons most obvious in their medical stories.
Yanks are no doubt going to downvote this to oblivion, but it is how I have so far experienced their miserable cities.
Where the hell did you go to see all that? I’ve lived in the US for half a century and never seen any of that. There are some states that need to figure out how to pave roads that will last more than 2 years, but many states have figured that out.
The roadworkers? Three seperate sites in chicago, then similar seen again in New York State, and in Louisiana. Other places too but they stood out.
Knocking on our windows to beg for food and water? Everywhere on the east coast. The kid happened in New York State, but similar happened in Pennsylvania, in tenessee, in illinois, in Louisiana, and everywhere really.
I was mobbed in Pennsylvania during the notorious Apple Incident, it happened again to a friend in Charlestown with a large bag of peaches, but when we were telling this story to a bunch of other Aussies they told me a chilling tale similar that happened to a girl of their number in Tenessee. The third one happened to strangers, but they had no reason to lie to me.
I don’t rightly know what to tell you, but we saw so many beggars everywhere except manhattan. We did not like getting restaurant meals, tried to stick to takeaway, because waitstaff were upsetting everywhere we went. And if you haven’t seen the massive holes in your roads, society and infrastructure in your time there, it’s likely because you are overused to them.
America is terribly full of the desperately poor.
Edit; I have learned not to talk of the incidents that happen once, if I can help it, as I get told they are “isolated incidents” or “just happen in that state”. The girl with the dog crying in louisiana, the orphans we met in ohio, the shaking window knocker, poor bastard… That said, those isolated incidents also add up to a larger truth. All of them were due to a lack of health care or social care. All could have been cured with a little kindness, or the yanks being a little less blind to their fellow man. It is a very harsh place.
Sounds like anywhere in VA that isn’t Alexandria or Tyson’s Corner.
To be fair, Gary, Indiana isn’t most people’s first choice to visit…
First or second to last choice too
If we passed through Gary I didn’t notice. The map puts it in the suburbs of Chicago anyway, perhaps we drove through at the end of our stay? Spent a bit of time in Illinois, then went through Cincinnatti on the way out toward the coast.
These stories are not any one trip, or any one city or state. This is an overview of everywhere in the US as a foreigner. People were begging me for food and stealing food on street corners from (the illinois bit of) Chicago to New Orleans, from Texas to New York. They tapped windows of the car, they stopped me in the street. It was like travelling through what the yanks choose to call a third world country… It isn’t like that in Australia.
I’m not going to tell you all the things you mentioned are impossible. I’ve read your other comments too. I’ve seen homeless women crying in the street, people with obvious mental or physical problems begging. Homelessness - visible homelessness - is terribly common. As far as crime goes, I don’t know, maybe people target tourists? My rental car visibly full of luggage was broken into in San Jose once, and they stole a bunch of electronics. Learned my lesson on that one. Apart from that I’ve wandered around some rough areas on occasion and in 36 years I’ve never been victimized in person.
Anyway, one last point: according to official stats, the rate of homelessness in Australia is nearly 3x that in the US, although I imagine that Australia probably counts homelessness differently, so it’s hard to compare, but 3x seems like a big difference for simple differences in methodology to account for. That said, I’m sure Australia has better services, so it may not be as visible to the average person, and less of a struggle for those experiencing homelessness. Hard for me to believe things are all that much better in the land of Murdoch, though.
Come visit Australia sometime. I am certain no children will knock on your windows begging for food and water when you stop at traffic lights (which happened both in cities and the occasional local township) even if you have a rental car (we were borrowing cars from locals, rentals are often too pricey for me). No one will try to steal your bag of groceries either.
If we passed through Gary I didn’t notice. The map puts it in the suburbs of Chicago anyway, perhaps we drove through at the end of our stay? Spent a bit of time in Illinois, then went through Cincinnatti on the way out toward the coast.
These stories are not any one trip, or any one city or state. This is an overview of everywhere as a foreigner. People were begging me for food and stealing food on street corners from (the illinois bit of) Chicago to New Orleans, from Texas to New York. They tapped windows of the car, they stopped me in the street. It was like travelling through what the yanks choose to call a third world country… It isn’t like that in Australia.
Americans are told by the media that they are living “the good life” and that they shouldn’t bother looking at conditions elsewhere. USA!USA!USA!
You have to go further than that. A huge population only cares about itself and has made it a part of their identity. Those who have it well don’t have to think about those without: drive to or work from home, live and socialize on internet platforms that isolate themselves from the plight of those with less. They can order everything online and have it delivered to their door - they have no clue and depending on how separated they are from those struggling, they may just say, “those people just aren’t working hard enough,” or some similar line of thinking. It’s not hopeless, but we need far more progress in the US, especially with wage inequality and affordable living/homes. Jeff Bazos is allowed to help buy up single family homes so the rich can rent them out…it makes me so angry and sad.
Consider me as a data point. My salary is in the low six figures. I have a reasonable mortgage and car loan. I also live paycheck to paycheck and have trouble paying my bills every month. I am currently in default on several thousand dollars of medical debt, that I am trying to pay off gradually, but I’m not always keeping ahead of my new medical debt.
Part of my income goes to helping out some relatives and friends who are in much worse shape, but even without that, I would have trouble breaking even.
I am just barely short of being in the top 10% of US incomes. The income inequality in this country has left the vast majority of the population struggling. Many can no longer afford enough food or housing.
You’re not alone there. America’s fragile social safety nets and minimal workers’ rights mean we’re all one bad day away from being in your position.
- Chemo can cost $50k, and FMLA exists (somehow) but only covers 3 months. A cancer diagnosis could easily wipe out six figures of savings.
- Most employers require prompt attendance, so a car crash that leaves you dependent on America’s crumbling public transit systems will likely lead to losing your job.
- The GOP is trying to kill off Social Security, so if you ever want to retire, you might have to save twice as much as what’s traditionally advised.
- With climate change being what it is, losing your house to a hurricane or wildfire is a much bigger threat than it used to be.
- Economic swings, downsizing, and “k-shaped recoveries” can make jobs vanish or become unsustainable without warning.
Even for the top 10%, saving for these contingencies typically precludes a wealthy lifestyle, particularly for younger people with fewer savings. There’s now an entire demographic of (mostly millenial) Americans with traditionally high-paying jobs who still live at or below middle-class aspirations due to saving: HENRY, or High Earner, Not Rich Yet.
Is it that bad here? Well, to answer your question let me just say that, in America, your very life might depend on keeping your boss happy. Many people live in places where there aren’t many options for jobs, and our healthcare is tied to our employment. If those people lose said job, they might not be able to afford lifesaving medications that they need. Often, those people are too poor to afford moving somewhere with better opportunities. I’m lucky enough to live in a city large enough to provide plenty of opportunity for employment, but I do currently work just four blocks away from the bridge I lived under as a child one winter, because I was thrown out by the Gospel Mission for skipping the morning sermon and prayers one day.
Tl;Dr: It varies very drastically by locale. Rural Americans can often live okay on “very* minimal income. Standards on what " poor” and “normal” vary about as widely between parts of America as they do between America and where you’re from.
Where I live (Dallas), I’m making around $40,000 in an area where the median is $60,000. I live alone, but I will have to buy a new car this year and I will barely be able to make my payments. I do not have a college degree, and I’m still basically entry level.
I’ve been looking at moving a lot recently. If I moved where I want to live (Oregon), I’d probably make the same or slightly less money, and my rent and expenses would probably rise by a few hundred a month. In effect, I would barely be getting by if I didn’t have a car payment.
I’ve also been looking at Chicago, where the median wage is slightly less than I make now, but cost of living is slightly lower, and I’d make slightly more. I also wouldn’t have to have a car, so my disposable income would rise drastically.
Dog if you’re thinking about moving, come to the best small-town vines rust belt city that has the lowest cost of living in the US, where I was born and raised, Pittsburgh. I love this city to death and it has deep working class roots. I bought an 1800 sq ft, 4 bedroom home that was built in 1890 for $160k in 2020. I’ve been renovating it for the past few years and still got a ways to go but it’s coming together beautifully.
For what it’s worth, our rent is still well below the national average, and I love this city to death. It’s small, but not too small, but not too large, everybody seems to know everybody, and there’s always always something to do. The geography and nature and rivers really forced this city’s hand a few hundred years ago where now everything is just built around and into mountainsides and deep woods, highways and roads and everything is a snarling maze of studio Ghibli elden ring on ketamine and I wouldn’t want it any other way
Maybe you and Dog can become friends 🥹
- Omega_Haxors ( @Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml ) 13•5 months ago
You’re considered “well-off” if you can manage to become a wage slave, which is where 100% of your income goes to your bills.
Isn’t the median income like $35k/year? A $5k tip would then be at least a month and a half’s salary for half the workers in the country. That’s pretty significant and a good reason to be stoked. Considering that Americans pay out of pocket what is normally covered by taxes (on top of taxes), yes, I would say that they really are that poor. That’s part of the system though, because as long as workers are tired and in poverty they’ll never have the time and energy, or take the risk of missing even a minute of work, to organize.
I would guess America is so wildly diverse, like most countries, that there’s no real “Average American”. Sure, median income isn’t great and recent inflation has screwed with poorer people all the way through to probably upper middle class.
However, I don’t think there’s “one reason” for people being / feeling poor. It also depends on what you mean by “life changing”.
Anyway - I’d say there’s are very poor people. Some of this is generational poverty, some of it is no family support, some of it is addiction, some of it is mental illness, some of it is bad choices. A social safety net would really help here. For whatever reason the US is against much of one.
There’s working poor, where supposedly the value they bring to a company isn’t sufficient to pay a living wage. I guess elsewhere this is government forced to be a higher minimum wage way more than in the US. This I think is also leading to lots of apathy now in service workers, which means atrocious service at most places, which is finally starting to impact people higher up the income chain. Though it’s usually scoffing that no one is doing a good job anymore.
Middle class people get squeezed by inflation a LOT, and children are incredibly expensive. As you get into middle middle and upper middle classes there’s also the spending problems. This is either driven by lack of or failures of public options, so people are paying for home schooling / private schooling, paying ever more out of pocket to get access to medical care at ever higher rates, and really any service needed can be astronomical or else often worse than doing nothing unless you know a guy. There’s also all the credit card debt that with higher interest rates are squeezing people even more. Some of this is unnecessary spending running out of control, but some of it is lack of wages keeping up with inflation mixed with many things having way more ongoing costs than they used to. Either they have planned obsolesce (Back in the 90s no one had to buy a new landline phone, or wireless phone every 2 years), they have subscriptions (again, in the 90s you bought a car or a radio, you bought a computer, you bought a game, whatever - it lasted with no ongoing payments), and many things just don’t last at all. Then there’s the interest in experiences - which is a transient thing, so you’re always paying for a new one. I’d also say there’s a huge burden on everyone related to college - and it is getting less obvious by the year if that hit in loan payments “forever” is worth the supposed economic boost. My parents grew up when college was like $8,000 max for 4 years and room etc - you could work your way through it, and the boost to lifetime expected earnings was pretty easy to overshadow the effort or loan if any needed. I might have been the last generation to get through with $20k in debt from 4 years, which while I’m still paying on isn’t enough to overshadow the earning benefits. Today (and for the last 15 years or more) it’s more and more for a 4 year degree, while the expected positions aren’t going up in pay very much at all. But if you do go to college that’s going to hit you and your parents for a long time also.
As you get to upper middle and upper class - upper middle is scared shitless by the inflation, wage increase demands, etc that might cause them to fall out of that class, so they can feel “poor” even though they’re far from it.
TL;DR: there are a lot of poor Americans, and many who are “doing OK” either drowning in debt or just feeling insecure even if not technically poor.
That’s really hard to gauge.
I drive a cab. I definitely fall into the category of people whose lives could be significantly upgraded for $5k. Some of the people I drive around are so much better off financially than me that that concept isn’t something that would ever even occur to them, while some of them are in much tougher positions. For where I am financially, I’m pretty lucky. I’ve got cheap rent that hasn’t gone up in over a decade and a reliable vehicle that I didn’t have to pay for. If things go bad I have family that can help a bit, but at the moment I operate on very little. I know people who bring in more but have way more going out and have to make huge sacrifices because of it.
But like, the majority of the people I pick up really don’t have it easy. Most don’t have vehicles, so that’s a pretty big filter in the direction of poverty in the US, but that financial category is very much built into and intended by the system and people seem to be totally fine with it. I can only assume that’s the case, given that we have suburban neighborhoods full of people with enough throw-away money to completely elevate nearby destitute neighborhoods but it doesn’t happen. And this is in Massachusetts, where we have some half-decent social services.
But, like, it’s bad. Look at it this way. The next time you go run some errands, try to pay attention to the people who are ringing you up, getting your food, all of that. Think of the sheer quantity of people working in positions that you interact with every single day in service jobs. For the most part, all of them are making no more than a few dollars above minimum wage. Most are probably within 2 dollars of it.
Wherever the average American’s at financially, there’s a lot more that those who are well off could be doing to make it better. Like, maybe instead of new marble countertops, give someone that life transforming $5k. Because it is absolutely the morally correct move, and your distressed reaction is absolutely the correct reaction.
Do something about it.
It really depends on where you look. In rural areas of red states (states in which the majority of elected officials are members of the Republican party), things are pretty bad. Red states tend to have fewer (read: almost no) social programs.
I have a bit of a unique perspective on the dichotomy, because one side of my family is firmly in the lower class and the other firmly in upper middle.
There’s a big difference for the two. It’s like two different countries. For the lower class, what you’ve described is indeed normal. And many in the other classes would not believe that it is that bad for them.
Are these lower classes voting to change this or are they completely brainwashed into voting against their own interests?
It almost kinda sounds like there’s an unspoken caste system going on in the way you described it.
Oh yes, these states are red because the Republican party has convinced them all to vote against their own interests.
Many may not understand this, but the single most important voting point to most in my area is abortion. The churches have convinced the masses that it is basically the ultimate sin. They will choose any candidate with an R (Republican party) next to their name on the ballot.
They’ve also convinced them that social programs are for lazy layabouts, and they should be cut. Even if the abortion issue were somehow solved, it would not change much.
Where I live we’re fortunate enough to have universal healthcare but it’s constantly under attack from the same side of politics that ultimately want to abolish it.
I have a friend who was going on about cutting taxes and especially not having to pay for others healthcare. Meanwhile, this idiot had just had a baby with his wife with the entire tab picked up by taxpayers, was now receiving family benefits and payments for starting a family and would soon need to rely on taxpayer-subsidied child care when she went back to work and school going forward. It somehow didn’t dawn on him that he himself was reliant on all of this assistance and was getting far more out of it than he was putting in.
At least he wasn’t so cooked that he was scared of others having abortions but I’ve at least had a taste of this bazaar mentality here.
A lot of it is decades of misinformation and propaganda paired with limited to no education and what some journalists call “braindrain” where those who do come from these areas and do get educated end up leaving.
Not as poor as the average Canadian.
$5000 would absolutely be life changing for me as an American, yes.
Disclaimer, not an American. I’m answering with my perspective for what it’s worth and because no one else has.
From what I’m able to see here, there’s a lot of Americans who are doing absolutely fine. Many of them. Seems there’s enough who are that the ones who complain about their unreasonable treatment don’t have enough voice to change things.
It’s true that every human society has rich and poor, the ones with abundance and those who struggle. The weird part from where I’m standing is that not every Human society declares itself the Greatest country in the world.
I wonder how much that kind of propaganda impacts on people’s ability to see the flaws and make the changes. Seems many Americans don’t even see the systemic problems there as problems. They see the people struggling as the problem.
When I hear stories of things like children who refuse to swear an oath of loyalty every morning being shamed and ostracised I really do fear for their ability to be honest with each other.
When I was poor, $5k would’ve been life changing. I wouldn’t have eaten any better except for a day or two, but I wouldn’t have had debts hanging over my head.
Matter of fact, I had a $4k debt hanging over my head for like 6 years because I dropped out of college. I couldn’t pay it off until I got my dad’s life insurance after he died. I worked the entire time, 6 years straight, but was underpaid and Wells Fargo was doing its illegal overdraft fee thing…I will never work with that bank again. It wasn’t uncommon for me to pay $70 in fees on a paycheck of $400. Idk how the fuck I survived.
$5k definitely helps people, it lets you catch up on bills, treat yourself a little and be able to enjoy life for a bit. But in this show it felt like medieval royalty throwing a few copper to the peasants on the streets and they literally said it was a once in a lifetime thing for these people. It was downright depressing that Americans live like this.