Disclaimer
Not trying to blame anyone here. I‘m just taking an idea I‘ve read and spinning it further:
Intro
A lot of people use free open source software (foss), Linux being one of them. But a lot less actually help make this software. If I ask them why, they always say „I don’t have the coding skills!“.
Maybe its worth pointing out that you don‘t need them. In a lot of cases it’s better to not have any so you can see stuff with a „consumer view“.
In that situation you can file issues on github and similar places. You can write descriptions that non technical people can understand. You can help translate and so on, all depending on your skills.
Other reasons?
I‘d really like to know so the foss community can talk about making it worthwile for non coders to participate.
Using GitHub is a skill of it’s own, and requires knowledge of coding practices. It’s hugely confronting to someone without coding experience
Yes, absolutely but github (which is only an example, mind you) has a lot of consumer friendly accomodations like github gui and cli.
You can edit stuff directly in someone elses repo (or so it seems) in the web browser. I know you have to do a branch and a pull request but thats something that can be worked on.
Thanks for making my point. :)
Woooooooooooosh
Wow. Great addition. Have a nice day.
The “woosh” is because we’re trying to point out that the average person probably doesn’t know how to use git cli and make coding documentation.
I knew that. I‘m saying just because the average person doesnt use it does not mean nobody uses it.
Since you’re trying to build bridges with this post, I just want you to know that everything you mentioned in this comment is far beyond a non-programmer and sounds totally incomprehensible. It’s jargon soup. I don’t say this to dunk on you or anything, I just wanted to let you know how high your own skill level is, because it can be easy to forget sometimes. People without those skills won’t be able to follow this kind of explanation.
Thanks for the heads up. Yes, I‘m indeed trying to help and apparently some people really want me to stop but I wont. I‘m happy a few actually appreciate it.
The jargon soup is not intentional, I was trying to head off a couple smartypants that will tell me that editing a repository in the browser actually just makes a branch.
You can’t do it right anyway. If you facilitate change, people will crucify you. So I just take hate and dont care at all.
That was exactly my point with the linked xkcd too. Not sure how they interpreted that as being in support of their post.
If you can’t code (or have limited coding skill) but know the system well, one of the best ways to contribute is by writing end-user focused documentation. Write about things that confused you. Improve the “getting started” guide. Add more articles to the docs. Create video tutorials. Things like that.
Exactly. Thanks for mentioning it. :)
because a lot of foss devs, contributers and even users are so extremely hostile when suggesting ux improvement/report bugs/etcetc for end users not like them that frankly I dont wanna bother. Same reason I don’t report bugs
maybe first tackle that situation before you ask people to throw themselves into what effectively is a lion’s den to mauled by fossbros who can’t get over themselvesedit: I no longer stand behind the last bit but Im keeping it here for downthread clarityNo. First I ask people for feedback and the feedback you‘re giving now is important and valuable. Thank you for that.
I‘m not asking peeps to do anything. I ask why not. Then I take that feedback and try to implement it. :)
Have a good one.
you’re right, I kinda let past experiences cloud my judgment for a bit there, and missed that you were doing the right thing,my apologies for that
sadly the fact that I did does point to the very problem I described.
that said I hope you can get somewhere and improve things, my apologies for the mix up
I appreciate the apology. Totally understandable that one gets frustrated. Happens to me a lot as well. Lets just keep on trying to do the right thing. :)
As someone who knows how to code and wants to contribute to FOSS, there is very little guidance in doing so even if I half-know what I’m doing.
I agree. I‘m also often confused. I‘m not adept at coding but a lot of low level programming, scripting, config files and so on I can do.
We need a more streamlined process and a behavioral code how to treat contributors. Something like the fedi instances that have decided to band together against bigotry and such.
Making it easier to contribute is the main thing. I don’t use git or discord, so I usually try to find an email address, if none is available I move on.
Sounds very reasonable. Git still needs improvement imo. It’s tough to use even for experienced people. Works good though.
Most fun i had was writing translations in weblate recently. Another way of contributing that works well.
It takes a certain kind of a skill set and experience to be able to translate this “consumer view” into something that can be acted upon by a developer.
Sure, the skill set can be developed, the knowledge (about software development, the available technologies, and having an idea of what is and isn’t feasible in the first place) can be built up, and the experience (communicating with developers) can be accrued, but that really stops a lot of people from even thinking of contributing.
Perhaps a subset of the (open-source) community can help in developing these (skills, knowledge, experience) among interested people. Teach people how to look for issues, bugs, or come up with feature requests; teach them how to put these into a form that’s easily understood and appreciated by the developers, and finally, teach them how to communicate with developers without losing the “non-techie user POV” which makes their feedback valuable in the first place.
IDK though, having read what I’ve just written, it seems to be quite a task.
I think you are totally on the right track but yes, the task is massive. Thats why I asked. I‘m trying to help with making it happen. And asking questions is one way of doing so. :)
Yeah. And I’m just throwing what I think is a reasonable idea, but there’s this nagging feeling I’ve got inside that goes “how can you be so sure no one’s thought about it before? Maybe there’s something more pertinent and basic that stops them from doing just that?”
Totally relatable. I‘m asking myself the same. The answer is: as long as we dont ask, we wont get an answer, so here we are, asking questions. :)
It sounds like we need PM’s to act as a liason between developers and end-users to bridge the difference in jargon and way-of-thinking.
I never thought I’d say having PM’s were going to help. Ironic.
That’s supposed to be part of their job, right? Along with coordinating the dev team’s efforts: who works on which, which aspects of the project is to be prioritized, which bugs are to be fixed ASAP; and other things that doesn’t come to mind at the moment.
But what I am actually imagining when I made that reply is on the other side of the “business-dev” divide. I’m actually thinking of someone who’s leading the QA team? I guess? I don’t even have any idea how it all works out on large corporate software projects.
Considering how often feedback is met with “where’s the PR”… that’s why.
So you‘re saying they’re unfriendly/impatient with non experts? That is a real problem imo and needs to be addressed. Thanks for the feedback.
I’m a coder myself, but… yeah, it’s a definite problem. Of course the feedback can sometimes have its own issues.
Absolutely. I have made mistakes myself and I know its hard to understand that others think differently than oneself.
Because my skills when it comes to coding (absolutely none), is using the program until it breaks and telling someone what happened from an uneducated stand point.
If you are going to make things for “idiots” you need to hand it to “idiots” for testing.
Makes total sense and reporting stuff from your viewpoint is great. :)
An organised, easy way to do this would be great. Kind of like a test audience for FOSS.
Right now, people basically have to appoint and organise themselves as reviewer, which is a big ask.
Yes indeed! Feel free to dm me if you‘re interested in helping with this. I feel like now that so many people responded positively, we could discuss where to go from here.
Good luck! Organising is hard work.
I can code or do errands, and am willing to help out a bit. I’m not sure how much time exactly I can devote to this, but if you’re stuck on something and can’t find anyone else to do it, I’m a good call. I might switch back to lemmy.sdf.org depending on how broken it stays, same username though.
Sounds great. I‘ll let you know if I come up with something.
I have to write userscripts to make websites bearable, software UI is not as customizable( bright white background at night, tiny 9pixel fonts, huge empty margins and content crammed into 200x200 boxes,lots of tiny cryptic icons crammed into toolbars that suppose to be menus,etc )
That doesnt sound pleasant.
I think the biggest issue with this would be that it would require non-technical people to use ticketing systems (have you ever worked in admin IT?).
They tend to put things like, button broken, or will not load, which are not necessarily helpful tickets.
I have worked in IT on and off for 20 yrs so I‘m quite familiar with tickets. The problem is mostly the organization. If you have a hybrid like me who has seen many jobs, you have no problems with tickets. The issue is reducing the headcount to the most skeleton crew as possible and then letting high profile coders take tickets from IT noobs. Thats a bomb just waiting to explode.
I have a background in Games, UX, Service and Product design and I would really like to contribute to FOSS projects but have no idea how to
I’m unfamiliar in the etiquette of GitHub and how I could contribute my skills
Happy new year. I took a couple days off from socials to recuperate.
Those are important questions that youre asking. Like in any team, its about achieving a goal together. The goal often is as important as the cooperation. If you see someones mistakes or think this could go better, its important to help them understand. Obviously, this doesnt always go without a hitch.
Just go to your favorite github page that uses stuff you understand (programming language, technique or whatever) and look if there are issues listed. You can check for pull requests (community made patches) and if they actually get pulled. If yes, find a issue to work on, create a branch, fix something and create a pull request.
If you need more help understanding this google github tutorial or first pull request. There are a lot of repos that auto accept your pull request to show you how its done.
Good luck! :)
- java ( @java@beehaw.org ) 2•11 months ago
by making it more user friendly
How? Somebody still has to implement your ideas. Creating tickets is not enough if there are no resources to work on them.
Read the other comments. A good portion of people, even with coding background are actually positive towards people helping.
It’s people that moan and have impossible standards that give devs and admins a bad rep.
- java ( @java@beehaw.org ) 1•11 months ago
So far it sounds like your idea of helping is finding people who would work for you and then bad mouthing those who wouldn’t.
Yes, correct. That is absolutely what I’m after. /s I’m trying to get people to work together instead of either trying to get employed by megacorps to make a decent living or be exploited by them for using their software. Sue me.
You have a very naive idea of software development.
Not a helpful comment. Feel free to elaborate and help working on ideas.