Pretty much in the title. Maybe you wouldn’t even use it, but would like to simply see it exist for the sake of having a federated alternative.
For me, it’d be the following:
- Meetup
- Tiktok
I am on the first two, but would prefer a federated alternative. I’m not on Tiktok, but would like to see a federated alternative.
I’ll admit these might not be a good idea. But as a thought experiment, I’d be curious about the community weigh in on what you all think this might look like.
Tiktok
The problem with video content (even short videos) is, that it generates an absurd amount of traffic and needs lots and lots of local data storage. This is also why there are so few PeerTube instances.
PeerTube would be a way to publish your short clips, too. Not as specialized as TikTok, but still …
Also tiktok really only makes sense with a big algorithm knowing what users want to see. Even if you were to follow many people, with the average video being only about 30 seconds long you won’t have much content to enjoy. The whole short form video thing is kinda built on knowing what your user likes and doesn’t. I don’t know how you could design such a platform without some privacy concerns.
I don’t know how you could design such a platform without some privacy concerns.
Yes, yes you could.
Companies like Google have successfully brainwashed us into believing that algorithms like this can only work on their server farms. The only reason those werver farms are necessary is becauwe they’re processing data for millions of people.
We forget that in each of our hands we hold a device that is 5,000 x more powerful than a 1985 CRAY-2, at the time the world’s fastest supercomputer. And let’s not forget our home desktops and laptops, which are several times more powerful that that.
We each have devices with persistent internet connections that could be at work scanning, categorizing, and filtering personalized content for each of us, without giving any privacy away. It’s only because we’ve been conditioned to be dependent on having our data centrally processed that we believe that’s the only way.
Note, it is more efficient to process content centrally, where the data is stored. However, generalized categorization and content tagging with robust metadata and standardized APIs would address the efficiency. Given companies are unlikely to do this and scupper their own surveillance revenue, the next best thing is local, privacy-respecting, smart content filtering assistants.
Are you Richard from Silicon Valley TV show? :)
Tumblr
DeviantArt
Furaffinity
Archive Of Our Own
Keep the fediverse weird and invite more theater kids. They pair surprisingly well with the tech dorks that make up the majority of the current fedi population.
I’m an older theater kid!! And I do pair well with this site!!!
Same, actually.
I don’t think the fediverse needs more platform alternatives.
What I really think we need is a way for people to use one fediverse account to log into different interfaces, so people can try out a new app / interface without starting a new account. Many apps can do this, but web apps generally cannot, they’re generally tied to an instance.
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couldn’t your instance just serve your identity to other instances?
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If you are talking about something like openauth (where you sign into some random website using your Google account) yes, but your base identity is still tied to Google. So if Google goes down, you lose your google account, and you also lose your account at every other website you logged in to using your google account.
Yeah, essentially that. The back-up plan in case your instance goes down is a separate issue, my main plan is just that users shouldn’t need a new account for each fediverse application they want to try, considering one account is already able to make any kind of post.
That’s not technically possible.
You could have one instance offer more than one platform, though, and you can already use multiple frontends with whatever instance you’re on. Kbin, which you’re on, actually tries to do the Swiss army knife thing IIRC.
It’s entirely technically possible. Apps already use third party identity providers all the time, you just need federated apps to support OAuth both for signing in on the client and as a backend identity provider, and standardize how federated apps return user info that would be common to any federated app (usernames, saved / liked posts, subscribed feeds, stuff common to the ActivityPub spec).
You could use the same credentials to open a new account on another instance, sure, I guess. You still have to create another user on the new platform with their own ActivityPub inbox and so on.
I guess to a non-technical user that might seem like the same thing, but then again so would your home instance allowing you to view other platforms. The second one would be way cleaner and easier on instance maintainers.
You can log into a pixelfed app on android with a mastodon account. Why can’t you log into a pixelfed web frontend with a mastodon account? What law of physics makes that impossible?
Uhh, let’s see…
After a search, it seems like they actually just copy the settings from your Mastodon account. It’s still a separate account. I’ll keep checking in case I missed something.
It doesn’t even sound like they securely bring over the password, which presents a little bit of a phishing threat if people are re-entering their Mastodon password into third party apps like this one.
Edit: Yup, here’s a video/gif. I’d do a federated link but I’m not sure Lemmy supports that yet.
You could totally copy someone else’s Mastodon this way, so that’s fun.
alright, well that’s not great, but my point is more that we could update the protocol to allow this to be done securely and conveniently.
It would still be a separate account, but yes, seamless migration to a new instance could be a thing. There’s scripts for it already. OPs suggestion that you can just move between instances with the same account isn’t how the fediverse works.
If you just want to been on Pixelfed and Mastodon, your instance giving access to both would be the cleanest, best way.
OPs suggestion that you can just move between instances with the same account isn’t how the fediverse works.
I’m OP.
I’m not sure why you’re speaking in the present tense about a suggestion I am making for the future.
Ah, sorry. Didn’t notice, there’s a few people talking to me.
Yes, it’s not a thing that could work. If you had some centralised way to handle accounts it wouldn’t be federated anymore. It would be another (semi-)walled garden or some kind of blockchain-ish thing, but either way it wouldn’t be ActivityPub-complient.
Letterboxed - an app like bookwyrm, but for movies. I’ve seen other people talk about it and I think some people are working on it, but AFAIK nothing is up atm
LibRate is WIP fediverse alternative for that.
It plans to supports film, books, games, and more. Basically one stop for every tracker.
Github
All the benefits of the network effect without the crippling reliance on a single MegaCorp to keep the lights on and not turn hostile like the owners of SourceForge, Reddit, and Freenode IRC.
Would also solve a problem I’m not hearing anyone at all talk about - what happens when the Gitlab / Gittea / whatever instances projects are hosting run out of money and go dark? Those sources are lost forever.
Youre in luck. Forgeo is a well maintained, self hosted gitea fork that is federated by design.
Fantastic, I will check this out!
Now we just need to get projects to start using it and federating their source code :)
I suspect the other comment about Gitlab may have more adoption because lots of projects including some very large ones are already using that platform.
This is by no means a vital service, but Imgur. Not the image hosting part itself, although the multiple self-hosted alternatives available are mostly aimed at photographs and surprisingly very few if any to memes and reactions for chats, forums and social media. On the other hand, the particular use case of sharing memes and meme dumps is not being fulfilled by anything else at the moment. Go to Imgur even on it’s current sorry decayed state and at any time you’ll find multiple people sharing image galleries, usually of up to 50 memes at a time, sometimes more. Lemmy, Mastodon and Discord servers try to fill that gap but right now they can’t.
There actually is a fediverse TikTok equivalent being developed! I’m not sure what the current status of it is, but it does already have rudimentary functionality. I bet the developer(s) might appreciate some help working on it, if anyone has the time/coding skills/money/etc to contribute. Somebody else mentioned Tumblr, and that exists too! So many cool projects being worked on, I regularly check this list to see what’s new, and it’s really heartwarming to see all the work people are putting into making the fediverse such a awesome place. There’s even a Tinder-esque dating app!
Personally, equivalents I would love to see include:
- Archive of Our Own
- RPC/F-List/roleplay platform
- (I’m actually trying to work on one of these myself, but I’m an amateur so don’t get your hopes up lol)
- Etsy
- Ravelry
- A search engine
- (And not just a metasearch using the same index as Google/Bing/etc)
How do you pronounce “Alovoa”?
TikTok is a sticky wicket, because video is so heavy and sensitive to network performance. You can maybe federate video, but there’s definitely not going to be small instances.
Ah-lo-voh-ah
Thanks!
No more “alternatives” please. That formula has failed over and over again. We want software that can do what proprietary platforms do not pursue because it’s not profitable. Online spaces to build meaningful connections, have interesting conversations with like-minded people, discover new things, be free from trolls and toxicity, possibly without the guilt of polluting the hell out of this planet with hardware and excessive electricity consumption.
Example? I’m skeptical there’s anything that both appeals to a reasonably large audience and isn’t monetisable. I’m very skeptical you can do it with less toxicity and computation somehow.
Edit: I suppose dating sites might count. They’re very much not optimised for actually finding good partners at this point, because gamified swipe dating keeps people hooked. Computation and toxicity are still pretty intractable.
to a reasonably large audience
That’s a measure of success that makes sense only in a for-profit, growth-oriented environment. Software just has to be sustainable and “bigger” doesn’t necessarily imply "more sustainable.
That said, what is now possible with social media is extremely restricted and our idea of what a social media is is constrained by profit motives. Social media could be much more, connect humans for collaboration and exchange instead of data extraction. We are so used to the little crumbs of positive experiences on social media that we normalized it.
Bonfire, for example, if we want to stick to the fediverse, is trying to challenge this narrative and push the boundaries of what a social media is supposed to do.
Another space would be non-siloed notion-like tools.
Anothe entire can of worms would be to go beyond the “dictatorship of the app” and start building software and UX around flexibility and customizability for the average user, rather than keeping this a privilege for tools targeting power users. Flexibility in UX means harder trackability and less CTR, so most end-user “apps” avoid that.
Okay, sure, you could make an ultra-niche Fediverse app that has integration with a digital toothbrush or something, I’ll give you that. If three people can productively use it I’m not sure that counts as a form of social media, though. I’d use a descriptor more like “add-on service”. The “social” part means you need a certain number of bodies involved.
What’s the deal with Bonfire? As far as I can tell it’s microblogging with an emphasis on customisability.
Open source endpoints are great. I’m a big fan.
Edit: Oh hey! They have a blog post about that. So basically, it’s another framework on top of ActivityPub. I like the sound of that. From their GitHub they currently integrate microblogging and some weird thing that I can only describe as socially distributed accounting.
they are also doing a whole flavor just for research-oriented social media, geared towards the OpenScience community and the academia in general. It will launch soon.
Then they have a whole set of collaboration tools and groupware, that now kinda incorporates the basic features of Trello and GitHub, but on top of a social media with granular permission systems. There the use cases are many more, but it’s also much more general-purpose than the research flavor. I think the end-game would be to have a platform that acts as a middleware and connect social life, gift-based collaboration, work and consumption in a single open platforms.
I also wrote an article envisioning a federated notion-like tool built on top of Bonfire, that clearly would allow to structure knowledge and implement no-code software on top of Bonfire, but clearly this would require a disproportionate effort for what the project is at the moment: https://fossil-milk-962.notion.site/Fractal-Software-for-Fractal-Futures-71e515597d6b424c994cae74f3341521?pvs=4
That’s actually really neat! I’m going to have to play around with Notion so I can tell what you’re talking about.
I don’t want the fediverse to always be dictated by the private sector’s ideas. I want someone to build the next “TikTok” on the fediverse to begin with, and for once have a generation whose “new thing” isn’t controlled by a single corporation.
How about a federated archive.org? (Kids these days are crazy about scanned public domain books and stuff.)
Something like StackOverflow/StackExchange would be nice. Would also like to see a federated platform for designers/artists (some Dribbble or Adobe Behance alternative).
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Some kind of marketplace like eBay.
Having bought and sold there the rules are quite arbitrary, and their cryptic algorhitm is a nuisance to buyers (you clicked by accident on a stove? You’re gonna see a ton of stoves in the recommended for a while!) and periodically harms sellers (if you don’t post daily and basically make it your day job, good luck making money!)
a federated alternative, with different instances for various interests and categories, meta-categories even and so on. Maybe regional instances like we have on here, one for the EU (quite convenient to ship and receive packages from inside of it, no customs wasting time and money) one for North America, one for East Asia, etc. With one being able to purchase from all of them.
Federation would also ensure that rules are properly enforced without abuses or other malpractices like eBay does (did you know eBay shipped a pig head to somebody who publicly criticized them?) since those instances would naturally be avoided and new ones would be made. It would also prevent excessive fees, as the fediverse is generally not a for-profit endeavor, and still, there will always be the option to shop around from other instances.
I don’t feel like Twitch / livestreaming is well-supported yet (OwnCast is sort of a different approach to it)
edit: TikTok also is a livestreaming platform
I saw something similar to twitch working in the blockchain architecture. It seems like a cool project where bandwidth is shared among users. But the crypto-scheme leaves a kinda strange feeling about it.
Well, I’d for one like to see something new. Not just another clone of an existing platform, since I don’t really love any of the social media platforms. I’d like something that simultaneously connects me with friends and people all around the world. With communities like here, just more focused on positive and constructive engagement regarding different topics. Less picking on the news and less just replying if there’s something wrong with what somebody said. I’d like to explore some means of democratic engagement. For example electing moderators. Maybe vote on rules instead of transferring power just by choosing instances wisely. And I’d like to do away with the current way of upvoting. It sometimes encourages herd mentality instead of good answers. I’d also like to incorporate blogging longer and well reasoned texts, microblogging and sharing pictures. Both silly memes but also vacation pictures with my friends. I think the concept of friend circles is good, You could choose who gets to see what aspect from your life. And I want different pseudonyms so not everyone knows all the stuff I’m into. And something that’s entirely missing is selling used stuff in the neighborhood. Something like NextDoor/Craigslist/Facebook marketplace… You could also combine that with local news and connecting the neighborhood, not just discuss world politics all the time.
I think there is much potential for an enticing platform if we think big and use the concept of federation to our advantage, apply it to use-cases and concepts that haven’t yet been explored by the big commercial platforms. We have to do away with the urge of re-creating something to make it possible. And it’d be hard to come up with good concepts to foster good behaviour and solve the technical aspects. But at the same time it’d allow us break free from the constraints of what’s already there and just be a smaller alternative to XY. The way it currently often is: We let the major players come up with the new ideas. They have different motivations, mainly growing and making money. We re-create what they came up with and add a bit to it, but the concept stays the same. I think we can do more. But it is difficult. There have been crazy ideas, really new distributed platforms being implemented, lots of it with some crypto tech and in the end it didn’t take off or wasn’t aligned with what the users want and need or are comfortable with. Or people tried combining every feature into one platform (like I just proposed,) and it fails due to complexity.
commune is a semi unique fedderated social media
Looks very neat! Thanks for the link, Something to keep an eye on !
Love the illustration on their home page. Looks like a very new project.
Nice. Looks a bit like Revolt, Rocketchat, other standard Matrix clients, maybe even inspired by Discord or whatever people use. I’m curious to find out how they applied the Matrix protocol to power this.
AWESOME! Thanks for linking the Flohmarkt project. I’ve been looking for something like this for quite some time and all I found was abandoned projects, and things that didn’t make it. I’m going to have a closer look at it and install an instance if it proves to be what I was looking for.
“Tiny knowledge projects”: https://observablehq.com/@jsomers/we-need-more-tiny-knowledge-projects-heres-one
Something like a decentralised dynamic web page like the one linked would be cool. But generally, stuff that’s more like “web gardens” where people can build “places” rather than feeds. Wikis being the best known successful example but still somewhat simple (in a good way).
Disqus. Would be great to add federated comments to any news, blog or static site.
