So I’ve realized that in conversations I’ll use traditional terms for men as general terms for all genders, both singularly and for groups. I always mean it well, but I’ve been thinking that it’s not as inclusive to women/trans people.
For example I would say:
“What’s up guys?” “How’s it going man?” "Good job, my dude!” etc.
Replacing these terms with person, people, etc sounds awkward. Y’all works but sounds very southern US (nowhere near where I am located) so it sounds out of place.
So what are some better options?
Edit: thanks for all the answers peoples, I appreciate the honest ones and some of the funny ones.
The simplest approach is to just drop the usage of guys, man, etc. Folks for groups and mate for singular appeal to me when I do want to add one in between friends.
- terraborra ( @terraborra@lemmy.nz ) 225•9 months ago
Cunts
- vlad ( @vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org ) 59•9 months ago
We can close this thread now. The question has been answered.
- Arthur Besse ( @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml ) 30•9 months ago
instance name checks out
- IninewCrow ( @ininewcrow@lemmy.ca ) English14•9 months ago
Found the Australian
- Bob ( @MadBob@feddit.nl ) 23•9 months ago
In New Zealand of all places!
- terraborra ( @terraborra@lemmy.nz ) 12•9 months ago
They wish they could be our western island.
- Iapar ( @Iapar@feddit.de ) 10•9 months ago
Oi! You’re a good cunt!
- HEXN3T ( @HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) 5•9 months ago
Ah, finally! A worthy alternative.
- Cyborganism ( @cyborganism@lemmy.ca ) 110•9 months ago
y’all
- Jo Miran ( @JoMiran@lemmy.ml ) 45•9 months ago
Y’all doesn’t get enough love. It is gender neutral and extremely versatile.
- 𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍 ( @sxan@midwest.social ) 11•9 months ago
I agree. It’s the plural of “you” that should be the official standard, since it disambiguates “you.” It can even be broadened to include larger groups via “all y’all,” as in, not just y’all in talking to, but all y’all in the house.
It can replace “guys”, but not “man,” though.
- Bob ( @MadBob@feddit.nl ) 8•9 months ago
It sounds cringeworthy if you’re not American though. The standard way of saying it is “you lot” and other dialects, like mine, have “yous”.
- Pulptastic ( @Pulptastic@midwest.social ) English8•9 months ago
you’uns
- NigelFrobisher ( @NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone ) 3•9 months ago
Youse if you’re a Geordie.
- BlueÆther ( @BlueEther@no.lastname.nz ) 1•9 months ago
further down under you may hear “hey, yous lot…”
- survivalmachine ( @survivalmachine@beehaw.org ) 2•9 months ago
Or if you’re near Pittsburgh, “yinz” is the proper spelling/pronunciation.
- Emma_Gold_Man ( @Emma_Gold_Man@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 7•9 months ago
For those not in the US south and afraid of being judged, “all” on its own is an option.
“Hi all” is unlikely to raise any eyebrows
- MBM ( @MBM@lemmings.world ) 1•9 months ago
“Hi everybody!”
- maxprime ( @maxprime@lemmy.ml ) 78•9 months ago
A lot of people use “folks” for plural.
I feel like “guys” is fairly un-gendered but people disagree with me. Personally, I haven’t used the word “guys” to refer to anything male in what seems like forever.
“Bud” and “fella” are good singulars.
- TWeaK ( @TWeaK@lemm.ee ) English21•9 months ago
I used to have a maths teacher who called almost every number “guy”.
“And this guy goes to zero, while this guy goes to infinity!”
- unfnknblvbl ( @unfnknblvbl@beehaw.org ) 12•9 months ago
I really, really wish we could degender “guy” and “guys”. I know plenty of people of all genders that use the words in general to describe people, objects, concepts, everything. The only holdouts are people that insist on it specifically meaning males. Ironically, these people are often the hardcore feminists.
If other English words can change their meanings and be claimed/reclaimed by certain groups, why can’t others?
Take guy! Use it to describe whatever you want! Free it of its historically phallic shackles!
- fᵣₑfᵢ ( @frefi@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 8•9 months ago
Yeah, I agree with you gal, while we’re at it I wish we could degender “gal”, “chick”, and “doll” too. Equality for all!
- ShepherdPie ( @ShepherdPie@midwest.social ) 1•9 months ago
This sounds not to dissimilar to those who argued that legalizing gay marriage would lead to people marrying horses or their cars.
- fᵣₑfᵢ ( @frefi@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 8•9 months ago
How’s that? I’m not arguing against anything, I said I want more words to be disgendered
How come people seem to only want words that were originally masculine coded words to be disgendered, but don’t want that for words that are originally feminine coded?
- jabib (he/him) ( @jabib@beehaw.org ) English3•9 months ago
My car married the horse down the road last year
- ready_for_qa ( @ready_for_qa@programming.dev ) 3•9 months ago
Guy was originally gender neutral as it was used to call someone stupidly bold (iirc). The term was most often used toward a single gender that was known for being stupidly bold and became synonymous with that gender. That’s how it became gendered.
- corymbia ( @corymbia@reddthat.com ) 60•9 months ago
In Australia the gender-neutral term is ‘Cunt’.
While a great word, in my neck of the woods that wouldn’t go over well.
- Blackmist ( @Blackmist@feddit.uk ) English6•9 months ago
Be the change you want to see in the world.
- End0fLine ( @End0fLine@programming.dev ) 3•9 months ago
Yeah, I only call my friends cunts. Most Americans would not be too happy to be on the receiving end of this one.
- corymbia ( @corymbia@reddthat.com ) 1•9 months ago
You never specified which neck (chin?) of the woods was applicable.
- PM_me_trebuchets ( @PM_me_trebuchets@lemm.ee ) 44•9 months ago
I’m AFAB enby, saying “you guys” and calling me “dude” is fine. Those to me aren’t gendered anymore. The people who get offended at general terms like these for groups of people need to touch grass.
But if you’re dead set on it, embrace y’all lol. Just don’t say it with a southern drawl and you’ll be fine. It’s a fantastic gender neutral term. You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
- lembas ( @lembas@lemm.ee ) 31•9 months ago
“Offended” is a bit of a strong word.
Many trans folks are, understandably, bummed out when gendered terms that refer to their AGAB are used to refer to them.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to avoid causing that brief moment of dysphoria. That just feels like a thoughtful and kind thing to do.
- PM_me_trebuchets ( @PM_me_trebuchets@lemm.ee ) 16•9 months ago
It’s good that OP means well, but also there are so many of us who do not care and are not affected because we know the speaker is using a generalized term and isn’t (usually) being malicious with it. I call several of my cisgender girl friends “dude” and “bro” and I’ll call men “girl” as a joke sometimes (like, girl what are you doing?). Many of these terms simply have completely lost their original gendered meaning in a lot of contexts.
- lembas ( @lembas@lemm.ee ) 12•9 months ago
That’s great, and it’s nice that you don’t have to deal with that jolt of dysphoria in those situations.
I’m simply saying that it’s also common (and okay) to not be entirely comfortable with those terms. Especially from strangers or acquaintances.
I don’t think seeking to reduce the linguistic pattern of male as the default is a misguided effort.
You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
This is likely the best solution, but also a hard one. Thanks for the perspective though.
- kingthrillgore ( @KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml ) 38•9 months ago
Comrade.
☭
- synae[he/him] ( @synae@lemmy.sdf.org ) English31•9 months ago
Try the following for groups:
Hey folks, how’s it going?
Listen up assholes!
Greetings, gumshoes
- yngmnwntr ( @yngmnwntr@lemmy.ml ) 4•9 months ago
I say “greetings earthling(s)” but I also like gumshoe! Also definitely adding “listen up assholes” to the rotation, my coworkers appreciate your suggestions!
- laurelraven ( @laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) 30•9 months ago
“Foolish mortals” is my go-to gender neutral form of address
- TexMexBazooka ( @TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee ) 29•9 months ago
The simplest approach is to accept language is inherently gendered, and at a certain point it is exhausting to either take offense to everything or walk on eggshells.
I’m southern, so I use y’all almost exclusively lol
- Tlaloc_Temporal ( @Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca ) 9•9 months ago
I’m more of a “be the change you wish to see” kinda person. I’ll neutralize my language to encourage others to do the same, eroding the banks of the river of language in the direction I wish it to go.
- Hadriscus ( @Hadriscus@lemm.ee ) 2•9 months ago
Nice picture
- JasonDJ ( @JasonDJ@lemmy.zip ) 5•9 months ago
Did you just assume my language?
- crispy_kilt ( @crispy_kilt@feddit.de ) 28•9 months ago
What’s up, cunts
Works best if they’re your friends and also you’re in Australia
- Colour_me_triggered ( @Colour_me_triggered@lemm.ee ) 7•9 months ago
Or Scotland
- foo ( @foo@lemmy.ca ) English28•9 months ago
Folks.
This is a great plural term, thanks.
- Balinares ( @Balinares@pawb.social ) 27•9 months ago
Everypony.
An oft overlooked option that leaves no one indifferent.
- IgnatiusJReilly ( @IgnatiusJReilly@lemmy.wtf ) 26•9 months ago
Meatbags?
- molave ( @mo_lave@reddthat.com ) 26•9 months ago
Mortals
- intensely_human ( @intensely_human@lemm.ee ) 24•9 months ago
Man, guys, buddy, etc
Just use them as gender neutral. Done.
- OurToothbrush ( @OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml ) 5•9 months ago
How many guys have you had sex with recently?
- jsomae ( @jsomae@lemmy.ml ) 5•9 months ago
It’s context-dependent. “They” as gender-neutral was also considered context-dependent until recently.
- “I met someone and they said…” would have been accepted generally
- “I met a woman and they said…” is only recently acceptable.
- OurToothbrush ( @OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml ) 6•9 months ago
I agree that it can sometimes be gender neutral. I do not agree that it is gender neutral.
Referring to a group of people with a trans woman in it as “you guys” is passive aggressive for example.
- jsomae ( @jsomae@lemmy.ml ) 6•9 months ago
It would be worse to treat trans women differently than other women.
Some people object to this usage of “you guys.” Some people also object to “y’all.” I know someone who dislikes “y’all” because it reminds them of confederacy and slavery.
If there is someone who expresses discomfort with certain words, it’s usually best to avoid those words in their presence.
By the way, nobody can be expected to know whether or not a woman they are talking to is transgender. “You guys” should not be avoided for the sake of trans women if it isn’t avoided for the sake of all women.
- OurToothbrush ( @OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml ) 5•9 months ago
Literally a trans woman. It is also rude to cis women but cis women don’t really worry about being misgendered the same way.
- jsomae ( @jsomae@lemmy.ml ) 4•9 months ago
Literally a cis woman. I’ll avoid calling you you guys. My trans friends approve of its usage though. I don’t find its usage rude when applied to me. Please don’t try to play the identity card just to win an argument.
- OurToothbrush ( @OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml ) 1•9 months ago
How much have you read on setting male as the default as it relates to misogyny?
- TheGalacticVoid ( @TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee ) 2•9 months ago
Hoe isn’t really a gender-neutral term. It’s really rude to call someone a gardening tool.
- TheGalacticVoid ( @TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee ) 3•9 months ago
Tack on bro, sis, king, queen, and dude, and you’ve got a ton of words to choose from
- KeenFlame ( @KeenFlame@feddit.nu ) 1•9 months ago
They specifically asked for a gender neutral option to these.