So I’ve realized that in conversations I’ll use traditional terms for men as general terms for all genders, both singularly and for groups. I always mean it well, but I’ve been thinking that it’s not as inclusive to women/trans people.
For example I would say:
“What’s up guys?” “How’s it going man?” "Good job, my dude!” etc.
Replacing these terms with person, people, etc sounds awkward. Y’all works but sounds very southern US (nowhere near where I am located) so it sounds out of place.
So what are some better options?
Edit: thanks for all the answers peoples, I appreciate the honest ones and some of the funny ones.
The simplest approach is to just drop the usage of guys, man, etc. Folks for groups and mate for singular appeal to me when I do want to add one in between friends.
Cunts
We can close this thread now. The question has been answered.
instance name checks out
Found the Australian
In New Zealand of all places!
They wish they could be our western island.
Oi! You’re a good cunt!
Ah, finally! A worthy alternative.
y’all
Y’all doesn’t get enough love. It is gender neutral and extremely versatile.
I agree. It’s the plural of “you” that should be the official standard, since it disambiguates “you.” It can even be broadened to include larger groups via “all y’all,” as in, not just y’all in talking to, but all y’all in the house.
It can replace “guys”, but not “man,” though.
It sounds cringeworthy if you’re not American though. The standard way of saying it is “you lot” and other dialects, like mine, have “yous”.
you’uns
Youse if you’re a Geordie.
further down under you may hear “hey, yous lot…”
Or if you’re near Pittsburgh, “yinz” is the proper spelling/pronunciation.
For those not in the US south and afraid of being judged, “all” on its own is an option.
“Hi all” is unlikely to raise any eyebrows
“Hi everybody!”
A lot of people use “folks” for plural.
I feel like “guys” is fairly un-gendered but people disagree with me. Personally, I haven’t used the word “guys” to refer to anything male in what seems like forever.
“Bud” and “fella” are good singulars.
I used to have a maths teacher who called almost every number “guy”.
“And this guy goes to zero, while this guy goes to infinity!”
I really, really wish we could degender “guy” and “guys”. I know plenty of people of all genders that use the words in general to describe people, objects, concepts, everything. The only holdouts are people that insist on it specifically meaning males. Ironically, these people are often the hardcore feminists.
If other English words can change their meanings and be claimed/reclaimed by certain groups, why can’t others?
Take guy! Use it to describe whatever you want! Free it of its historically phallic shackles!
Yeah, I agree with you gal, while we’re at it I wish we could degender “gal”, “chick”, and “doll” too. Equality for all!
This sounds not to dissimilar to those who argued that legalizing gay marriage would lead to people marrying horses or their cars.
How’s that? I’m not arguing against anything, I said I want more words to be disgendered
How come people seem to only want words that were originally masculine coded words to be disgendered, but don’t want that for words that are originally feminine coded?
My car married the horse down the road last year
Guy was originally gender neutral as it was used to call someone stupidly bold (iirc). The term was most often used toward a single gender that was known for being stupidly bold and became synonymous with that gender. That’s how it became gendered.
In Australia the gender-neutral term is ‘Cunt’.
While a great word, in my neck of the woods that wouldn’t go over well.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
Yeah, I only call my friends cunts. Most Americans would not be too happy to be on the receiving end of this one.
You never specified which neck (chin?) of the woods was applicable.
I’m AFAB enby, saying “you guys” and calling me “dude” is fine. Those to me aren’t gendered anymore. The people who get offended at general terms like these for groups of people need to touch grass.
But if you’re dead set on it, embrace y’all lol. Just don’t say it with a southern drawl and you’ll be fine. It’s a fantastic gender neutral term. You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
“Offended” is a bit of a strong word.
Many trans folks are, understandably, bummed out when gendered terms that refer to their AGAB are used to refer to them.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to avoid causing that brief moment of dysphoria. That just feels like a thoughtful and kind thing to do.
It’s good that OP means well, but also there are so many of us who do not care and are not affected because we know the speaker is using a generalized term and isn’t (usually) being malicious with it. I call several of my cisgender girl friends “dude” and “bro” and I’ll call men “girl” as a joke sometimes (like, girl what are you doing?). Many of these terms simply have completely lost their original gendered meaning in a lot of contexts.
That’s great, and it’s nice that you don’t have to deal with that jolt of dysphoria in those situations.
I’m simply saying that it’s also common (and okay) to not be entirely comfortable with those terms. Especially from strangers or acquaintances.
I don’t think seeking to reduce the linguistic pattern of male as the default is a misguided effort.
You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
This is likely the best solution, but also a hard one. Thanks for the perspective though.
- kingthrillgore ( @KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml ) 38•8 months ago
Comrade.
☭
Try the following for groups:
Hey folks, how’s it going?
Listen up assholes!
Greetings, gumshoes
I say “greetings earthling(s)” but I also like gumshoe! Also definitely adding “listen up assholes” to the rotation, my coworkers appreciate your suggestions!
“Foolish mortals” is my go-to gender neutral form of address
The simplest approach is to accept language is inherently gendered, and at a certain point it is exhausting to either take offense to everything or walk on eggshells.
I’m southern, so I use y’all almost exclusively lol
I’m more of a “be the change you wish to see” kinda person. I’ll neutralize my language to encourage others to do the same, eroding the banks of the river of language in the direction I wish it to go.
Nice picture
Did you just assume my language?
What’s up, cunts
Works best if they’re your friends and also you’re in Australia
Or Scotland
Folks.
This is a great plural term, thanks.
Everypony.
An oft overlooked option that leaves no one indifferent.
Meatbags?
Mortals
- intensely_human ( @intensely_human@lemm.ee ) 24•8 months ago
Man, guys, buddy, etc
Just use them as gender neutral. Done.
How many guys have you had sex with recently?
It’s context-dependent. “They” as gender-neutral was also considered context-dependent until recently.
- “I met someone and they said…” would have been accepted generally
- “I met a woman and they said…” is only recently acceptable.
I agree that it can sometimes be gender neutral. I do not agree that it is gender neutral.
Referring to a group of people with a trans woman in it as “you guys” is passive aggressive for example.
It would be worse to treat trans women differently than other women.
Some people object to this usage of “you guys.” Some people also object to “y’all.” I know someone who dislikes “y’all” because it reminds them of confederacy and slavery.
If there is someone who expresses discomfort with certain words, it’s usually best to avoid those words in their presence.
By the way, nobody can be expected to know whether or not a woman they are talking to is transgender. “You guys” should not be avoided for the sake of trans women if it isn’t avoided for the sake of all women.
Literally a trans woman. It is also rude to cis women but cis women don’t really worry about being misgendered the same way.
Literally a cis woman. I’ll avoid calling you you guys. My trans friends approve of its usage though. I don’t find its usage rude when applied to me. Please don’t try to play the identity card just to win an argument.
How much have you read on setting male as the default as it relates to misogyny?
Hoe isn’t really a gender-neutral term. It’s really rude to call someone a gardening tool.
Tack on bro, sis, king, queen, and dude, and you’ve got a ton of words to choose from
They specifically asked for a gender neutral option to these.