So I’ve realized that in conversations I’ll use traditional terms for men as general terms for all genders, both singularly and for groups. I always mean it well, but I’ve been thinking that it’s not as inclusive to women/trans people.
For example I would say:
“What’s up guys?” “How’s it going man?” "Good job, my dude!” etc.
Replacing these terms with person, people, etc sounds awkward. Y’all works but sounds very southern US (nowhere near where I am located) so it sounds out of place.
So what are some better options?
Edit: thanks for all the answers peoples, I appreciate the honest ones and some of the funny ones.
The simplest approach is to just drop the usage of guys, man, etc. Folks for groups and mate for singular appeal to me when I do want to add one in between friends.
terraborra ( @terraborra@lemmy.nz ) 225•4 months agoCunts
vlad ( @vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org ) 59•4 months agoWe can close this thread now. The question has been answered.
Arthur Besse ( @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml ) 30•4 months agoinstance name checks out
IninewCrow ( @ininewcrow@lemmy.ca ) English14•4 months agoFound the Australian
MadBob ( @MadBob@feddit.nl ) 23•4 months agoIn New Zealand of all places!
terraborra ( @terraborra@lemmy.nz ) 12•4 months agoThey wish they could be our western island.
Iapar ( @Iapar@feddit.de ) 10•4 months agoOi! You’re a good cunt!
HEXN3T ( @HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) 5•4 months agoAh, finally! A worthy alternative.
Cyborganism ( @cyborganism@lemmy.ca ) 110•4 months agoy’all
Jo Miran ( @JoMiran@lemmy.ml ) 45•4 months agoY’all doesn’t get enough love. It is gender neutral and extremely versatile.
𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍 ( @sxan@midwest.social ) 11•4 months agoI agree. It’s the plural of “you” that should be the official standard, since it disambiguates “you.” It can even be broadened to include larger groups via “all y’all,” as in, not just y’all in talking to, but all y’all in the house.
It can replace “guys”, but not “man,” though.
MadBob ( @MadBob@feddit.nl ) 8•4 months agoIt sounds cringeworthy if you’re not American though. The standard way of saying it is “you lot” and other dialects, like mine, have “yous”.
Pulptastic ( @Pulptastic@midwest.social ) English8•4 months agoyou’uns
NigelFrobisher ( @NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone ) 3•4 months agoYouse if you’re a Geordie.
BlueÆther ( @BlueEther@no.lastname.nz ) 1•4 months agofurther down under you may hear “hey, yous lot…”
survivalmachine ( @survivalmachine@beehaw.org ) 2•4 months agoOr if you’re near Pittsburgh, “yinz” is the proper spelling/pronunciation.
Emma_Gold_Man ( @Emma_Gold_Man@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 7•4 months agoFor those not in the US south and afraid of being judged, “all” on its own is an option.
“Hi all” is unlikely to raise any eyebrows
MBM ( @MBM@lemmings.world ) 1•4 months ago“Hi everybody!”
maxprime ( @maxprime@lemmy.ml ) 78•4 months agoA lot of people use “folks” for plural.
I feel like “guys” is fairly un-gendered but people disagree with me. Personally, I haven’t used the word “guys” to refer to anything male in what seems like forever.
“Bud” and “fella” are good singulars.
TWeaK ( @TWeaK@lemm.ee ) English21•4 months agoI used to have a maths teacher who called almost every number “guy”.
“And this guy goes to zero, while this guy goes to infinity!”
unfnknblvbl ( @unfnknblvbl@beehaw.org ) 12•4 months agoI really, really wish we could degender “guy” and “guys”. I know plenty of people of all genders that use the words in general to describe people, objects, concepts, everything. The only holdouts are people that insist on it specifically meaning males. Ironically, these people are often the hardcore feminists.
If other English words can change their meanings and be claimed/reclaimed by certain groups, why can’t others?
Take guy! Use it to describe whatever you want! Free it of its historically phallic shackles!
fᵣₑfᵢ ( @frefi@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 8•4 months agoYeah, I agree with you gal, while we’re at it I wish we could degender “gal”, “chick”, and “doll” too. Equality for all!
ShepherdPie ( @ShepherdPie@midwest.social ) 1•4 months agoThis sounds not to dissimilar to those who argued that legalizing gay marriage would lead to people marrying horses or their cars.
fᵣₑfᵢ ( @frefi@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 8•4 months agoHow’s that? I’m not arguing against anything, I said I want more words to be disgendered
How come people seem to only want words that were originally masculine coded words to be disgendered, but don’t want that for words that are originally feminine coded?
jabib (he/him) ( @jabib@beehaw.org ) English3•4 months agoMy car married the horse down the road last year
ready_for_qa ( @ready_for_qa@programming.dev ) 3•3 months agoGuy was originally gender neutral as it was used to call someone stupidly bold (iirc). The term was most often used toward a single gender that was known for being stupidly bold and became synonymous with that gender. That’s how it became gendered.
corymbia ( @corymbia@reddthat.com ) 60•4 months agoIn Australia the gender-neutral term is ‘Cunt’.
While a great word, in my neck of the woods that wouldn’t go over well.
Blackmist ( @Blackmist@feddit.uk ) English6•4 months agoBe the change you want to see in the world.
End0fLine ( @End0fLine@programming.dev ) 3•4 months agoYeah, I only call my friends cunts. Most Americans would not be too happy to be on the receiving end of this one.
corymbia ( @corymbia@reddthat.com ) 1•4 months agoYou never specified which neck (chin?) of the woods was applicable.
PM_me_trebuchets ( @PM_me_trebuchets@lemm.ee ) 44•4 months agoI’m AFAB enby, saying “you guys” and calling me “dude” is fine. Those to me aren’t gendered anymore. The people who get offended at general terms like these for groups of people need to touch grass.
But if you’re dead set on it, embrace y’all lol. Just don’t say it with a southern drawl and you’ll be fine. It’s a fantastic gender neutral term. You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
lembas ( @lembas@lemm.ee ) 31•4 months ago“Offended” is a bit of a strong word.
Many trans folks are, understandably, bummed out when gendered terms that refer to their AGAB are used to refer to them.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to avoid causing that brief moment of dysphoria. That just feels like a thoughtful and kind thing to do.
PM_me_trebuchets ( @PM_me_trebuchets@lemm.ee ) 16•4 months agoIt’s good that OP means well, but also there are so many of us who do not care and are not affected because we know the speaker is using a generalized term and isn’t (usually) being malicious with it. I call several of my cisgender girl friends “dude” and “bro” and I’ll call men “girl” as a joke sometimes (like, girl what are you doing?). Many of these terms simply have completely lost their original gendered meaning in a lot of contexts.
lembas ( @lembas@lemm.ee ) 12•4 months agoThat’s great, and it’s nice that you don’t have to deal with that jolt of dysphoria in those situations.
I’m simply saying that it’s also common (and okay) to not be entirely comfortable with those terms. Especially from strangers or acquaintances.
I don’t think seeking to reduce the linguistic pattern of male as the default is a misguided effort.
You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
This is likely the best solution, but also a hard one. Thanks for the perspective though.
kingthrillgore ( @KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml ) 38•4 months agoComrade.
☭
synae[he/him] ( @synae@lemmy.sdf.org ) English31•4 months agoTry the following for groups:
Hey folks, how’s it going?
Listen up assholes!
Greetings, gumshoes
yngmnwntr ( @yngmnwntr@lemmy.ml ) 4•4 months agoI say “greetings earthling(s)” but I also like gumshoe! Also definitely adding “listen up assholes” to the rotation, my coworkers appreciate your suggestions!
laurelraven ( @laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) 29•4 months ago“Foolish mortals” is my go-to gender neutral form of address
TexMexBazooka ( @TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee ) 29•4 months agoThe simplest approach is to accept language is inherently gendered, and at a certain point it is exhausting to either take offense to everything or walk on eggshells.
I’m southern, so I use y’all almost exclusively lol
Tlaloc_Temporal ( @Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca ) 9•4 months agoI’m more of a “be the change you wish to see” kinda person. I’ll neutralize my language to encourage others to do the same, eroding the banks of the river of language in the direction I wish it to go.
Hadriscus ( @Hadriscus@lemm.ee ) 2•4 months agoNice picture
JasonDJ ( @JasonDJ@lemmy.zip ) 5•4 months agoDid you just assume my language?
crispy_kilt ( @crispy_kilt@feddit.de ) 28•4 months agoWhat’s up, cunts
Works best if they’re your friends and also you’re in Australia
Colour_me_triggered ( @Colour_me_triggered@lemm.ee ) 7•4 months agoOr Scotland
foo ( @foo@lemmy.ca ) English28•4 months agoFolks.
This is a great plural term, thanks.
Balinares ( @Balinares@pawb.social ) 27•4 months agoEverypony.
An oft overlooked option that leaves no one indifferent.
molave ( @mo_lave@reddthat.com ) 26•4 months agoMortals
IgnatiusJReilly ( @IgnatiusJReilly@lemmy.wtf ) 26•4 months agoMeatbags?
intensely_human ( @intensely_human@lemm.ee ) 24•4 months agoMan, guys, buddy, etc
Just use them as gender neutral. Done.
OurToothbrush ( @OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml ) 5•4 months agoHow many guys have you had sex with recently?
jsomae ( @jsomae@lemmy.ml ) 5•4 months agoIt’s context-dependent. “They” as gender-neutral was also considered context-dependent until recently.
- “I met someone and they said…” would have been accepted generally
- “I met a woman and they said…” is only recently acceptable.
OurToothbrush ( @OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml ) 6•4 months agoI agree that it can sometimes be gender neutral. I do not agree that it is gender neutral.
Referring to a group of people with a trans woman in it as “you guys” is passive aggressive for example.
jsomae ( @jsomae@lemmy.ml ) 6•4 months agoIt would be worse to treat trans women differently than other women.
Some people object to this usage of “you guys.” Some people also object to “y’all.” I know someone who dislikes “y’all” because it reminds them of confederacy and slavery.
If there is someone who expresses discomfort with certain words, it’s usually best to avoid those words in their presence.
By the way, nobody can be expected to know whether or not a woman they are talking to is transgender. “You guys” should not be avoided for the sake of trans women if it isn’t avoided for the sake of all women.
OurToothbrush ( @OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml ) 5•4 months agoLiterally a trans woman. It is also rude to cis women but cis women don’t really worry about being misgendered the same way.
jsomae ( @jsomae@lemmy.ml ) 4•4 months agoLiterally a cis woman. I’ll avoid calling you you guys. My trans friends approve of its usage though. I don’t find its usage rude when applied to me. Please don’t try to play the identity card just to win an argument.
OurToothbrush ( @OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml ) 1•4 months agoHow much have you read on setting male as the default as it relates to misogyny?
TheGalacticVoid ( @TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee ) 2•4 months agoHoe isn’t really a gender-neutral term. It’s really rude to call someone a gardening tool.
TheGalacticVoid ( @TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee ) 3•4 months agoTack on bro, sis, king, queen, and dude, and you’ve got a ton of words to choose from
KeenFlame ( @KeenFlame@feddit.nu ) 1•4 months agoThey specifically asked for a gender neutral option to these.