Thoughts? I am currently trying to avoid using plastic packed drinks as much as possible due to it’s limited and finite recycle count
Do you remember when Sun Chips changed their chip bag material to a more environmentally friendly compostable material? People lost their minds. Why? Because the bag crinkled a lot. All of the boring late night talk shows made fun of Sun Chips bags. So, they switched it back to the old bags.
Moral of the story is that people don’t care if something is better for the environment if it inconveniences them now. If everything was in cans people would cry because they can’t close them or whatever. In fact, many items that were previously sold in cans are now plastic. Also, money… Cheaper to wrap water in plastic.
You can still buy Coca-cola in glass bottles if you look hard enough. But they are pricey.
I got laughed at on other platforms by older generations for even suggesting the notion of mild inconvenience to make future generations lives easier.
They don’t want us or them to have a better life, not even if it costs them nothing - but ESPECIALLY not if they have to do literally anything differently.
This is where I dispair about the future of walkable cities and trains. Can’t even get a section of the population to accept stopping to charge an EV every two hours for a whole 20 minutes during the road trip they take once a month, if that. How can we convince those people to bike or take trains?
I’ve given up trying to convince them. They’re a vocal minority. Who I talk to and work with are the quieter ones. I’ve found on posts and comment sections there are people who are asking honest questions and are receptive. Scroll past the chaff and you’ll find them. We have a new train opening in our city and I spent a couple hours explaining to people where parking was available, how to ride it, how to pay for fare, etc. People were genuinely excited to hear that people like me are riding it! A lot of it is just anxiety of never taking transit before, and not knowing how to get started.
So just make aluminium bottles with a cap.
They already do in the US, they sell beer like this. And I’m pretty sure I’ve seen water packaged like this too.
Do you remember when Sun Chips changed their chip bag material to a more environmentally friendly compostable material? People lost their minds. Why? Because the bag crinkled a lot.
No… Because it crinkled at a high enough volume that you actually have to worry about hearing loss. People weren’t losing their mind for no reason.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703960004575427150103293906
It is louder than “the cockpit of my jet,” said J. Scot Heathman, an Air Force pilot, in a video probing the issue that he posted on his blog under the headline “Potato Chip Technology That Destroys Your Hearing.” Mr. Heathman tested the loudness using a RadioShack sound meter. He squeezed the bag and recorded a 95 decibel level.
The Bag was louder than the ambient noise in a jet fighter cockpit in flight.
We don’t have Sun Chips here so I’m not aware of this, but I’d be really curious to learn how much of that freakout was genuine and how much was engineered by entities with a vested interest in maintaining status quo.
They were extremely loud. That doesn’t mean they should have stopped making them, but people aren’t joking about them being loud.
The bags were very noticeably louder and stiffer. Not enough that I would complain but it was something you noticed right away.
You would NOT want to have one in a movie theatre.
- intensely_human ( @intensely_human@lemm.ee ) 2•11 months ago
Ssssss! We must make the humans use the bad Sun Chips bagssss!
— the entities
If you can, get Coca-Cola from Mexico. Its all glass and uses cane sugar.
Not that it isn’t still junk food and horrible for you. HFCS might be a worse form of sugar, but in the end they’re still refined sugars. It’s worth noting that Mexico and the US have similar obesity rates. There are more factors than just beverages involved, but it is one.
- intensely_human ( @intensely_human@lemm.ee ) 1•11 months ago
That sounds terrible!
- intensely_human ( @intensely_human@lemm.ee ) 1•11 months ago
Moral of the story is that people don’t care if something is better for the environment if it inconveniences them now
Another way to put this is we all live in many different environments, including our clothes, room, home, neighborhood, etc
I would water the number one reason for not wanting the crinkle bags is to permit quiet night time snacking so as not to wake others in the house.
FYI; cans are plastic lined.
It’s true, but the amount of plastic in the cans is pretty negligible, especially compared to plastic bottles and the aluminum can is still by far the most recyclable beverage container.
Also there are new linings that don’t use plastic but natural materials called oleoresinous linings but they’re not good for acidic things so they’re not very wildly used.
he aluminum can is still by far the most recyclable beverage container.
Wouldn’t glass be more recyclable?
TIL. Do you know when that started?
Always. We used steel before then because it wouldn’t react with the drink. We always knew aluminum cans would be cheaper, but couldn’t figure out how to protect the flavor and carbonation until Coors figured out how to line it with plastic. He shared the process for free with his competition because he knew a recycling program would scale really well.
That’s not entirely true. In the early days they used wax to line the cans because steel still leaves a taste in the drink. It just didn’t work very well and also caused carbonation issues as the CO2 diffused into the wax.
Wow, multiple TIL on this thread.
Hmm. I wonder if this is true for all the various other acidic canned products. I use cans heavily in my cooking, so this is worrisome. Would the old Shackleton cans be wax-lined?
Glass is an option, or course, which is used in home canning.
Aren’t aluminum cans still plastic bottles on the inside?
They have plastic coating, yes, but way less plastic and way easier to just burn it off in the crucible.
Plastic burns easily in all types of fires.
- intensely_human ( @intensely_human@lemm.ee ) 1•11 months ago
Oh yeah let me just whip out my interdimensional crucible and burn off the plastic between the liquid and the metal so I can drink my beverage in peace.
You mean, if it gets recycled.
Money. Plastic is so integrated into the supply chain that divesting from it would require retooling probably thousands of bottling plants, at significant expense, with no guarantee of ROI.
- intensely_human ( @intensely_human@lemm.ee ) 2•11 months ago
Increase the costs by adding taxes to the plastic that account. Sucks to use the stick instead of the carrot, but if it’s a real societal cost then the cost should be paid by those introducing it. They’d raise prices for these goods and consumers can decide if it’s still worth buying.
My thought is that it’s incredible how enormous the packaged drink market is. Tap water + filter + insulated bottle. Profit.
I understand that not everyone has the luxury of planning ahead but the drink market should be less than half of what it is today. Most people drink bottled drinks because of marketing and subliminal pressures and habits.
There are alternatives to plastic. As stupidly expensive as it is, Liquid Death is water in a can. I’ve also seen water in paper cartons and larger bottles made of glass. Soda is available in cans as well. Teas and juices are available in glass. You may be choosing to drink a particular brand that’s only available in plastic.
You have plenty of choices. You have the choice to drink a particular product out of plastic. You have the choice to not drink that. You may be faced with having to pay a little more or to drink something that’s not your favorite. In an ideal world, more people would spend a little more on their purchases to increase demand for the manufacturing of a product which could bring prices down while decreasing demand and manufacturing of popular packaging.
- intensely_human ( @intensely_human@lemm.ee ) 2•11 months ago
I’m an Uber driver and I buy so many bottled drinks. My plan is to just get like two or three liter bottles to keep in the car to hydrate me for the day off tap water from home.
Mostly just to save myself money though. Gotta get a buffer built and I’m just barely making it now.
I love that you’ve recognized an opportunity for improvement and established a reasonable solution.
Carbonated drinks are tough but if you’re looking for something other than water, make some iced tea from scratch or from powered form or fruit juice from concentrate - anything you can buy in bulk - to keep in insulated bottles.
You know cans are just plastic sacs using the tin/aluminum for structure right?
Very little plastic, which burns when they recycle the cans
There must be more to it than this. As a Dr. Pepper connoisseur I can tell you that Dr. Pepper from a can tastes far superior than from a bottle.
It’s a different type of plastic, AFAIK it’s like a spray on polymer for the aluminum cans; But I think the biggest factor is probably UV degradation of the ingredients in the soda with the clear plastic bottles.
Maybe it’s for the same reason Moscow Mules are served in copper mugs. The container conducts heat well and therefore feels very cold to the touch when you put your lips on it, which enhances the feeling of it being refreshing.
Moscow Mules are served in copper mugs
…which ideally are not copper on the inside to prevent copper from leaching into the acidic beverage you’re drinking.
That says more about the taste of Dr Pepper than it does about the cans 😂
Honestly same for seltzer/club soda
I refuse to buy mineral water because of this. Only in emergency mode.
I always carry my reusable bottle (Tupperware) wherever I go.
soda stream and salts.
If you’re talking about the US, then you have to spell it the way we spell it.
Lol true, Aluminum
you are a good person
You do realize that aluminum bottles are plastic bottles yes ? Plastic bottle with a thin aluminium insert to block sunlight from degrading the contents.
ok maybe so but this makes op pretty good
I am currently trying to avoid using plastic packed drinks as much as possible due to it’s limited and finite recycle count
Do you mean in things like plastic water bottles or other beverage containers like plastic bottles containing soda?
Yeah. Beverage bottles
Well when it comes to water I feel like it has a lot to do with corporate events and advertising. If you are in Florida for example and the water tastes like it’s been filtered with dead fish you might be more inclined to grab a bottle.
As for soda I think it has a lot to do with the cost of using glass bottles. People don’t really get them refilled. They just recycle them.
It’s somewhat more expensive, and under current rules disposal is basically not the manufacturer’s problem, or even the consumer’s. Are they more common in (I assume) the UK?
foul: -5 points, extra letter/syllable
in the US, it’s spelled ‘aluminum’
Aloomineeum
They could use the Euro Bottle or NRW Bottle refill glass bottles, that a lot of European countries ate using. They’re being refilled 12 times on average.