- xyguy ( @xyguy@startrek.website ) English45•4 months ago
God i wish. And most everyone here could install a new operating system in about 20 minutes. But nobody else is going to because the learning curve for a regular user to install an os is basically perpendicular. Even if they had a linux installer already on a flash drive.
Oh just boot into the bios and find the option to boot for a flash drive and then boom installed.
Which requires a user to know, What a bios is
What booting means
What boot options mean
What the model of their flash drive is
What button on their keyboard they need to press to get to the bios
What secure boot is
Where they need to go to turn off secure boot
How and where to back up their important files
What a disk partition is
How to reverse the changes made to the bios so that it doesn’t boot to usb by default.
And that’s assuming they know why they want a different OS, why they care and that they know about Linux in the first place.
Most people dont and never will. All you can do is install Linux for the ones you like the most and say a prayer to your favorite deity for the rest.
- deadbeef79000 ( @deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz ) 17•4 months ago
It’s worth noting that the same applies when installing Windows.
Most people never do that either because it’s already
bloated with malwareinstalled on the PC they buy.Same with macOS, you buy the hardware with preinstalled software.
- xyguy ( @xyguy@startrek.website ) English8•4 months ago
Absolutely. If Linux was pre installed that’s what people would use. Its the switching to Linux from something else that proves so complicated.
- ahal ( @ahal@lemmy.ca ) 2•4 months ago
Same reason most non technical people using Linux today do so on the Steam Deck. If you want to spread Linux, trying to convince individuals is going about it all wrong.
You need to convince Canonical or Red Hat to spend more on partnerships with manufacturers. I’m not sure if anyone else has deep enough pockets.
- kureta ( @kureta@lemmy.ml ) 15•4 months ago
That is why Microsoft spent a total of gazillion dollars to have its OS pre-installed on all PCs. We need more PCs with Linux pre-installed. This should be an antitrust issue but I am not knowledgeable enough to say how.
- xyguy ( @xyguy@startrek.website ) English5•4 months ago
Linux pre installed is the only way for most people to use it I’m afraid.
- toastal ( @toastal@lemmy.ml ) 2•4 months ago
Or at least no OS so you don’t have to pay Microsoft a license fee for a spyware OS you will never use.
- BCsven ( @BCsven@lemmy.ca ) 7•4 months ago
Agreed. All those things in your list are the hardest part of modern linux, if someone gets past the UEFI, BIOS secureboot hurdle the modern GUI experiemce is superior to Windows
- xyguy ( @xyguy@startrek.website ) English2•4 months ago
Definitely. I can genuinely say that the autotiling in PopOS completely changed my workflow for the better.
- Zucca ( @Zucca@sopuli.xyz ) 6•4 months ago
Yes.
Really the hardest part of desktop linux for a regular, so called “internet user”, in the installation.
They don’t have no clue how to install an operating system, even windows.
I once installed CentOS workstation for my father on his ThinkPad. Firefox and Libreoffice is all he needs. Automatic updates in the background make sure all the latest security patches are applied. There have been few time when, after the update, the laptop hangs at boot. I’ve since told him to choose the second-to-last boot option from the “start-up menu” until the fix for the bug has been deployed (usually in within a 24h).
So really using Linux isn’t the hard part. Back in 2004 (ish) I went the painful route of installing my first Linux - Gentoo. But boy I learned a lot from it. Yes, I had a helping friend to get me over the hardest parts.
- xyguy ( @xyguy@startrek.website ) English2•4 months ago
Fedora does btrfs snapshots on boot also, which is such a great feature that I’m surprised Microsoft hasn’t copied it for Windows.
- Zucca ( @Zucca@sopuli.xyz ) 2•4 months ago
That’s a really neat feature.
- Fizz ( @Fizz@lemmy.nz ) 3•4 months ago
You can watch a 5min video on how to do it. It’s really not rocket science
- wuphysics87 ( @wuphysics87@lemmy.ml ) 6•4 months ago
Not all BIOS look the same. Not all computers have the same button to push to enter the BIOS
- Facebones ( @Facebones@reddthat.com ) 4•4 months ago
Unfortunately, most people have the far simpler issue of “just not giving a fuck.”
- Fizz ( @Fizz@lemmy.nz ) 1•4 months ago
I test Linux rhetoric on my sister to see what works. She often says Linux sounds so cool and aligns so well with her values but then she says she doesn’t care about computers and goes and buys a $2000 Mac to use as a web browser. It makes no sense to me and it’s hard to find out what will get people to make the jump to Linux.
She could have tried Linux on her current laptop for free and probably saved $2000 and knew this but instead buys and entirely new laptop and throws out the old one.
- Facebones ( @Facebones@reddthat.com ) 2•4 months ago
I agree. I feel like its a personality thing (honestly I feel like its a neurotypical thing, I’m not autistic or anything but definitely divergent) and/or a capitalism thing.
I don’t like cars, but I learned enough about how cars work to be able to take a functional role in my cars maintenance. Most people don’t do that, whether its a car or computer or whatever else in their life.
- onlinepersona ( @onlinepersona@programming.dev ) English2•4 months ago
I’ve said this multiple times in other comments, but what would be amazing is a
linux-installer.exe
that shows the normal installer wizard with non-techie, beginner, and advanced options that allows installing linux from windows and booting right into it.The ultimate goal would be for the desktop environment to have a windows theme by default, have all the alternatives installed for previously installed software with desktop icons that look the same, and all files to be where they were previously. That way you could just say “go to https://windowsupgrade.com / https://linux.install and run the installer” to anybody non-technical and have them running linux in under an hour.
It should be so simple and unassuming that people don’t even realise they installed linux. If they message back “I ran it, but I’m still on windows”, that’s a success.
- xyguy ( @xyguy@startrek.website ) English2•4 months ago
That would lower the barrier to entry significantly. It doesn’t address the issues with the bios but someone mildly adventurous would have a much easier time going forward.
I think something like that would have to be sponsored by and maintained by a big distro though. I’m afraid if it was a community effort the amount of bikeshedding would stop it before it even began.
- Crozekiel ( @Crozekiel@lemmy.zip ) 28•4 months ago
I’ve been 100% on Linux since July of last year. I thought I was currently having my first major Linux fucked up situation that I just could not figure out this weekend.
It has been very depressing, after trying to convince friends and family to give Linux a chance and keep an open mind for months, I was beginning to feel like a fraud and a liar.
But, after hours of software troubleshooting turning up nothing I’ve discovered I’m in the early stages of a dying ssd… My first major problem, and it’s hardware related. It sucks but it is also a relief in a weird way.
And I’m finding out about it way earlier than I likely would have in windows thanks to btrfs. But it’s also funny because if I had been having similar issues in windows I probably would have ran hardware diag much sooner, but because I’m still a bit of a Linux newbie I assumed I broke my OS and wasted hours troubleshooting software.
- urska ( @urska@lemmy.ca ) 26•4 months ago
I was about to post this video, lmao. But this man still thinks Linux is difficult and not easy to use. When in fact its become way easier than running Windows
Linux. Linux has surpassed Windows and Mac on the Desktop usability in the last 2 years. And it just keeps getting better.- huginn ( @huginn@feddit.it ) 17•4 months ago
But this man still thinks Linux is difficult and not easy to use
He explicitly said that it was incredibly easy to get set up on old hardware and that everything he did just worked.
All of his reasons why Linux is hard to use he specifically framed in the context of “historically speaking Linux was bad but now Linux is good”
Were you even paying attention?
That said, if you’ve ever tried to pair a controller with Linux that isn’t a PS5 or Xbox controller it will be rough. Had to use the CLI to change Bluetooth configs and install non standard drivers to support it on Mint
- mortrek ( @mortrek@lemmy.ml ) English4•4 months ago
Switch pro worked without any tweaks as well.
- Russ ( @russjr08@bitforged.space ) English2•4 months ago
Same with my Stadia controller - funnily enough, Windows is the one that required me to purchase some third party software to be able to use it wired or wireless…
- Mia [she/they] ( @mia@lemmy.cybergirly.com ) English14•4 months ago
Linux is easier than Linux ?
- GlennicusM ( @GlennicusM@beehaw.org ) 5•4 months ago
I mean, yeah.
Linception!
- urska ( @urska@lemmy.ca ) 2•4 months ago
Factos 🐧
- Corgana ( @Corgana@startrek.website ) 11•4 months ago
I’ve come to realize the Linux basics are actually a lot easier to learn compared to Windows and MacOS, the hard part is un-learning the old ways and habits of doing things. Like if one day everyone on earth forgot how to use operating systems, I’d bet Linux would probably be the one that catches on. It’s only because we’re so used to the idiosyncrasies of stuff like Windows that it feels more natural.
- TwoCubed ( @TwoCubed@feddit.de ) 1•4 months ago
If you’ve been using Windows for decades, Linux is absolutely not easier to use. Troubleshooting Windows for me is super easy and nowadays I hardly have to troubleshoot at all. It kinda just works™. Troubleshooting Linux as a noob is absolutely atrocious and I’ve always run into a problem with Linux within the first couple of weeks.
That said, I wish I grew up using Linux, so it’d be second nature to me. I really would like to ditch Windows. Problem is, I’m already burnt out from my job, I really don’t have the energy to make the switch yet.
- archchan ( @archchan@lemmy.ml ) 26•4 months ago
I spent too much time with corpo brain rot to give linux a chance on desktop and realize it’s how I’d always imagined proper computing would be. It changed my outlook on the world when I finally did and it’s liberating (much libre. Very wow). Glad to see more and more people catching on to the possibility of a better future.
- businessfish ( @businessfish@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) English6•4 months ago
it really is crazy how different it feels to use a linux pc after being conditioned to think that windows is just how using a computer is. the way i relate it to my friends is that using windows feels like i’m constantly compromising with the computer, but using linux i own my computer and it works for me - not the other way around.
- youmaynotknow ( @jjlinux@lemmy.ml ) 22•4 months ago
It is satisfying to see stuff like this. Thank you for sharing.
- noorbeast ( @noorbeast@lemmy.zip ) English10•4 months ago
Mention is made of Resolve, which does work great as a professional grade video editor, and in the next breath codec issues are raised, which are not a Linux issue but proprietary licensing issue.
For a simple workaround in Mint go to: /home/UserName/.local/share/nemo/scripts
Create 2 files to convert videos from the right click menu and make them executable in the Permissions:
#!/bin/bash
for file; do ffmpeg -i “$file” -c:v dnxhd -profile:v dnxhr_hq -pix_fmt yuv422p -c:a pcm_s16le -f mov “${file%.*}”.mov
done
And:
#!/bin/bash
for file; do ffmpeg -i “$file” “${file}”.mp4
done
- png ( @png@discuss.tchncs.de ) 5•4 months ago
Or buy the full version, which is a one-time purchase and solves the license issue AFAIK
- noorbeast ( @noorbeast@lemmy.zip ) English1•4 months ago
I use Resolve Studio, that gives you access to all Resolve features but it does not fix codec licensing issues at the Linux OS level.
- png ( @png@discuss.tchncs.de ) 1•4 months ago
It does provide H264/H265 according to Section 3.3 (Arch Wiki)
BTW, to wrap code in markdown, use ```
- Aviandelight ( @Aviandelight@mander.xyz ) 2•4 months ago
Just looked at Resolve and I definitely want to try this out. It almost sounds too good to be true. Anyone here tried it?
- realbadat ( @realbadat@programming.dev ) 3•4 months ago
I’ve used resolve for quite a few things in the past. It’s an excellent editor, way more than most people will need/use in the free version, and exceeds most corporate editing requirements in the paid version.
Blackmagic Design bought it to have a video editing suite they could tie to their hardware, which I would call similar in design approach. It’s inexpensive for what it does, works really well, but isn’t the top of the line for broadcast.
Most corporate broadcast (think like a bank or something having its own small recording studio, rather than the major broadcasting companies) will leverage BMD at some point in their workflow.
- Aviandelight ( @Aviandelight@mander.xyz ) 2•4 months ago
Cool. Yea I saw all of the hardware they’re pushing and that’s what made me wonder what’s going on there. I use professional grade software for work but I’d like to have more professional features for home too without the high cost of entry.
- realbadat ( @realbadat@programming.dev ) 2•4 months ago
BMD bought Resolve maybe 15 years ago now, but the support is not limited to BMD hardware. It was more of a way for them to ensure BMD hardware support in a video editor at the time. Personally I have their web presenter and an older model of their TV studio kit at home (long story), but I also have a variety of other hardware, all of which works just fine with Resolve.
I’m using Resolve on the regular for my VHS conversions, though some tasks would be easier with the premium instead of the free version, I just fill in with ffmpeg or other tools and move on.
Just FYI, the download will ask for an email/name/etc, but the download starts right away, so you don’t need to actually give any PII out to get it.
- RiderExMachina ( @RiderExMachina@lemmy.ml ) English10•4 months ago
I think there are two major hurdles keeping Linux adoption back (besides the obvious installation bit). The first is that our backwards compatibility is terrible. It is easier to get old versions of Windows software to run in Wine than it is to get some old Linux software to run natively.
If something like Photoshop did finally release a Linux version, even if they only did one release to make 2% of people happy, it likely wouldn’t be able to run natively after 5 years.
The second is a good graphical toolkit. Yes, GTK and Qt exist, but neither are as simple as WinForms or SwiftUI/Aqua.
- Bulletdust ( @Bulletdust@lemmy.ml ) 18•4 months ago
I’ve got plenty of old software here under Linux that still runs fine to this day across a number of PC’s and even a Raspberry Pi that I use as a backup desktop. I honestly can’t see backwards compatibility being any more of an issue than it is under Windows - There’s a number of accounting packages released under Windows 7 that won’t run under Windows 10, the latest version of most popular browsers won’t run under Windows 7. Likewise, the latest version of MS Office 365 won’t run under Windows 8.
- narc0tic_bird ( @narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee ) 15•4 months ago
Manual installation is one thing, but by far the biggest reason is OEM preinstalls. 98% of the people never install any operating system themselves, the devices just come with one and that’s the one that’ll be used.
- eveninghere ( @eveninghere@beehaw.org ) 4•4 months ago
DELL sold Ubuntu models and they abandoned them I believe.
- pbjamm ( @pbjamm@beehaw.org ) English4•4 months ago
IIRC part of that issue was that the Windows version of the same computer was cheaper because of MS licensing. For Linux nerds at the time it made more sense to buy the Windows version and do what they had always done, reinstall with the Linux of their choice.
- realbadat ( @realbadat@programming.dev ) 1•4 months ago
They still sell laptops, desktops, and servers with Ubuntu pre installed.
- urska ( @urska@lemmy.ca ) 6•4 months ago
All you mf saying Photoshop and Adobe PROBABLY dont even use it. Its like a mantra I keep hearing. Really? all you whiners use Photoshop and Adobe as professionals?
- RiderExMachina ( @RiderExMachina@lemmy.ml ) English2•4 months ago
I personally don’t use Photoshop but was using it as an example. You could fill in the blank with other tools like AutoCAD, MS Office, QuickBooks/Quicken, etc.
- GiovaMC1 ( @GiovaMC1@lemy.lol ) 1•4 months ago
Yup
- SSUPII ( @SSUPII@sopuli.xyz ) 4•4 months ago
To allow modern windows to run legacy applications a lot of caution is given to updating libraries or fully new ones are given while keeping the older ones. Also static builds are more common on Windows, or come bundled with a copy of the required libraries as .dll files.
- Let’s say an application requires
libexample1
. It works, the library is available too. - Eventually the application gets abandoned, but still works.
- But eventually a
libexample2
gets released that drastically changes how the library works. The program doesn’t work on this version. The older release of the library then get’s abandoned. - Distributions now start removing the package from the repositories as the older library is slowly requiring no longer supported releases of its own dependency.
- Now application is borked
Aplication could have still worked if it came bundled with its own copy of libexample1 and of its dependencies, or was statically linked.
An example of this is Nero, a software kit for managing CD/DVD disc media. They made a build of some of their tools for Linux, meant to run on Debian 7. This builds were an experiment and got abandoned because of the very few users it had. Yet, these tools still work perfectly fine on Debian 12 despite being based on ancient libraries because it bundles all its requirements as a copy in its own proprietary blob.
I talked about caution on updating libraries on Windows. You can find many deprecated methods in any native Windows library that will likely never be removed from the library binaries, as many applications require it. The new, better and more feature rich method is given a different name instead, and is pointed out in the documentation for the older method.
Projects like FUSE are very nice for this, where an AppImave bundle of prebuilt binaries is given and can potencially not only be ran everywhere that can run FUSE but also in the future too.
- NoisyFlake ( @NoisyFlake@lemm.ee ) 1•4 months ago
Isn’t this what Flatpaks are doing?
- SSUPII ( @SSUPII@sopuli.xyz ) 1•4 months ago
Flatpak is definitely a possible solution. We will see how it will be managed in the future
- Let’s say an application requires
- eveninghere ( @eveninghere@beehaw.org ) 10•4 months ago
If Linux ever becomes used by my friends that movement will be driven by big techs or governments. Our voices aren’t a big factor and we should admit that so that we spend time better.
- urska ( @urska@lemmy.ca ) 9•4 months ago
Talk about yourself brother. Im moving that % on pure will alone
- Sas [she/her] ( @Sas@beehaw.org ) 4•4 months ago
The same could be said for vegetarians and vegans at some point but about every year i read that meat consumption is down a few percent compared to the previous year in Germany. A single person switching OS doesn’t matter. Getting others to switch who also get others to switch is in the long term changing things.
- eveninghere ( @eveninghere@beehaw.org ) 1•4 months ago
Maybe, but logically speaking, I don’t have evidence to tell whether that’s a proper or false equivalence.
- cakeistheanswer ( @cakeistheanswer@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 2•4 months ago
Even if you’re right, those organizations still have to be dragged kicking and screaming to do the right thing.
It’s not a quick solution, but the answer is more education about the space, so that there are more voices.
- Moorshou ( @Moorshou@lemmy.zip ) 1•4 months ago
Linux adoption would probably take hold if it was advertised, but it’s not the thing the linux community wants from what I’ve heard and I don’t think our voices are useless, especially with the Sony incident
- taanegl ( @taanegl@beehaw.org ) 9•4 months ago
I’m hoping this will make software publishers target Linux… just not with snaps. Please no.
- setVeryLoud(true); ( @isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca ) 1•4 months ago
Beggars can’t be choosers.
- taanegl ( @taanegl@beehaw.org ) 1•4 months ago
Vendors can’t be locked in. Hard line.
- setVeryLoud(true); ( @isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca ) 1•4 months ago
Vendors don’t give a shit about Linux.
- taanegl ( @taanegl@beehaw.org ) 2•4 months ago
Unless they’re called Microsoft. In that case, they care a lot. Also, PreSonus Studio One is getting ported, DaVinci Resolve runs on Linux, Bitwig, Lightworks has run on Linux for a long while, and we’re not even including all the Electron wrappers out there.
No joke though, vendors would have a bit more control - if they used Nix instead of Flatpaks or Snaps :P We could bring the NSIS installer and DRM on Linux in the worst way as well. But, still: DRM dees nuts.
- setVeryLoud(true); ( @isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca ) 1•4 months ago
Microsoft is in bed with Canonical though, so Snaps are their preferred method of software delivery.
You do make a good point that there is a decent selection of proprietary software on Linux, but some of these are half-assed attempts (Discord, Zoom, Proton), and the vast majority of vendors are not thinking about Linux at all.
- Facebones ( @Facebones@reddthat.com ) 6•4 months ago
I’ve always been familiar with Linux and tech but always used windows cause gaming. Last week I stripped all my drives and set up dual boot to daily drive Linux with a windows fallback for whatever I might need windows for.
Fedora was up and running in no time.
Win 11, I had to jump through the hoops to avoid logging in, it doesn’t label your drives like Linux does so you have to guess or cross reference somehow, twice as many reboots, pages of data settings.
So glad to finally be going Linux ❤️
- governorkeagan ( @governorkeagan@lemdro.id ) English1•4 months ago
One of us, one of us!
Jokes aside, it’s always nice reading stories like this. Even if I’m still a noob myself.
- Facebones ( @Facebones@reddthat.com ) 2•4 months ago
You’ll be fine! Linux isn’t all that and a bag of chips anymore as long as you’re open to an occasional internet search.
I recognize that Linux isn’t perfect, but people who say it isn’t “ready for users” are people who want to have their cake and eat it too - Want the multi billion dollar polish of windows but with the respectfulness of FOSS (Free Open Source Software.)
Of course, its possible to strip windows of most of its nonsense but again most users would rather die than do a simple search. 🤷
- governorkeagan ( @governorkeagan@lemdro.id ) English1•4 months ago
Couldn’t agree more. Been using Linux daily since October last year.
- electricprism ( @electricprism@lemmy.ml ) 2•4 months ago
It was “time” 6+ years ago to those who were paying attention to what was coming.
- confuser ( @confuser@lemmy.zip ) 1•4 months ago
with the help of chatgpt, this Linux noob is able to use an arch based system no problem! I even get to use better versions of every software I’ve used in the past!