Two hours ago I made a post to !libertyhub@lemmy.blahaj.zone about US politics. I had previously had a good relationship with the head moderator of this community. They’ve encouraged My political posts, and he’s removed comments by people that misgendered Me, and reminded people of My pronouns, like in this thread two days ago:
However, an hour ago in this new thread, the same moderator who was telling people to respect My capitalised pronouns uses lowercase pronouns to address Me:
And he has left up earlier comments which also seemed to misgender Me, and which I specifically pointed out:
Even as some users in the thread gender Me correctly:
I’m making this thread in the main community because since the mod has banned Me, I can no longer report the comment or leave a reply correcting the pronoun. I would like to gain the attention of @ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Misgendering trans people and banning Them at the same time so They can’t do anything about it is not the kind of thing I expect to see on Blahaj. This mod is clearly 100% aware of My pronouns, and made a choice here. I suppose they could be using the general “you”, but it just doesn’t look like that, what with banning Me, telling Me My post isn’t welcome, and telling Me to go to a different community. I used to have a good rapport with this mod, they said several times that they valued My posts. I posted something he disagrees with, and now all of a sudden respecting trans people’s pronouns isn’t a priority anymore. He’s misgendering Me and they’re leaving up comments that also misgender Me. It feels targeted.
EDIT: I cannot seem to embed images. Every time I hit edit and fix the image links and press save, they change to some kind of aussie.zone image proxy link. For now I have left them as links without embedding them.
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Well, this is some terminally online bullshit if I’ve ever seen some.
Listen. I understand that we all want to be inclusive and I completely support this. I use this instance for a reason. But at some point, we have to draw some sort of line in the sand in cases like this. If you look at OP’s history, you’ll see that this is not a moderation problem, this is an attention seeker problem.
I’ve said it before in a comment that the moderation removed two days ago. Actually, it was removed for misgendering OP, I believe (didn’t capitalize the pronouns), BY THE PERSON OP IS CALLING OUT HERE, too! So accusations of transphobia against that person are ridiculous, but anyway, I’m going to repeat it here: This isn’t the first time I see this user post something, and I can’t help but notice a pattern of aggressively dictating the way people should act. Not only this, but OP’s already tried to pull [something similar on Beehaw]( “something similar on Beehaw”).
This has been on my mind ever since I first read the initial post a while back and I’m finally going to spill it. OPis literally the only person I’ve ever seen use “capitalized pronouns”. And I mean, on it’s own, that’s not a problem. Lots of people have their own special pronouns, whatever. No, what I question here, is the motive. Because here is the thing: OP identifies as a god. This isn’t coming from me, this is quoting from Grail’s Medium profile. “Nonbinary Goddess” and there isn’t even more details in this post. And I mean, yeah, that carries a ton of baggage, no wonder people had a problem with these pronouns.
Can we stop pretending that people are being transphobic because they question the fact that someone is self-identifying as a god, please? Let’s all be honest with ourselves here: Being inclusive is not the same as enabling entitlement. And making accusations of transphobia for something like this is quite frankly disgusting.
Some of you need to log off, because transphobia is real thing. You can’t just throw around this term like that. A few days ago, I was at a memorial surrounded by fellow trans people, grieving actual victims of transphobia, people who died for simply being who they are. Some of us are dying, some of us are being kicked off from their family, some of are being actually discriminated against, some of us are being harassed. This is what transphobia looks it. I’m sorry for being dramatic here, but come on!
If it can be explained by: “I’m was more focused on making my point and forgot to capitalize the pronouns”, then I’m sorry, I refuse to call that “transphobia”.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Growing up in a deep red area I could talk at length about the discrimination (transphobia, homophobia, racism, etc) I’ve seen first hand and the scars (both physical and emotional) that myself and people I know have from that experience.
I won’t here because ain’t nobody want to hear that shit.
OP really needs to step away from social media for awhile and cool off. Social media isn’t what your life should orbit around, at most it should be a little seasoning on the banquet that is life.
After reading the community’s pinned “Rules Breakdown” post, I can easily see how Your post violated their rules. 🤷♀️ And as another poster in this thread points out, it appears You’re just on a time-out, not a perma-ban.
Also, I will capitalize “you” for You as an act of politeness, but I very strongly disagree with characterizing this as “misgendering”, even after reading Your “Introduction to capitalised pronouns” post. Yes, grammar is socially defined and arbitrary. For example, the only reason African-American Vernacular English is labelled “improper” is because so many (white) people with power say so — there’s nothing inherently worse or better about it. However, it’s still necessary to reach consensus on the meaning of words, else no one could be understood.
Capitalization of Your pronoun is clearly very important to You, and it would be thus be unkind of me to refuse to accommodate You when it’s pointed out, but English is not a language where every pronoun is gendered. The capitalized version is an honorific form of the same pronoun, not a different pronoun altogether. And generally speaking, the use of honorifics (“sir” and “ma’am” being the most common ones) is becoming far less common these days. Perhaps it’s because honorifics are most frequently used to establish dominance and subservience roles, whether that be in customer service roles (“yes, sir”) or governing roles (“yes, Your Honour” or “yes, Your Majesty”). To borrow Your own example, even many Christians now refer to their god as “he” rather than “He” in written language. And of course, those of us who totally reject the notion of gods certainly don’t. Your insistence on capitalization as respect for Your divinity makes me genuinely uncomfortable as someone who doesn’t believe in divinity at all and certainly shouldn’t feel subservient to You.
I don’t want My pronouns to be respected because of My gender identity, I want them to be respected because they’re My pronouns and they make Me feel like Myself.
As an example, I don’t really believe in binary gender. I think being men and women is a phase that everyone will grow out of one day. But I still refer to people as “he” and “she” even though I don’t believe in the traditional semantic meaning. And in fact I think belief in traditional masculinity is very dangerous to women and other minorities. But I don’t need to buy in to traditional masculinity to gender any trans person correctly. Nobody should have to buy into a belief system to gender anyone correctly. My pronouns are exactly as symbolic of oppression as any binary person’s pronouns, which is to say that yes there is a history, but there is also hope for a better future, and we have a responsibility to bring that future into being rather than being stuck in the past.
I want to make it very clear, I completely respect Your pronouns and am working on resolving this issue.
I gotcha Fam for those embedded pics
In order:
I’d assume that the mod in question (being a mod) sees a ton of posts and comments from a ton of users and simply didn’t check Your profile before making the comment there.
Or hell it could have been their autocorrect dropping the capital (which mine does pretty often)
But from what I can see it’s also a single comment. Don’t assume malice when ignorance can easily explain it.
And that mod is really quick to ban people, hell they banned me last week less than a minute after I made a comment on one of their posts simply for saying that dems and the GQP weren’t the same (their post was implying that they were the same). The reason they banned me was for being a “liberal”.
Personally I’d recommend a solution to help weed out transphobia vs ignorance: put Your‡ pronouns at the end of your username so that it’s easy for people to know and talk to you how you’d like. This is fairly easy to do on Lemmy as flairs at the end of usernames don’t really exist around these parts.
‡ I literally had to go back and manually change this to a capital Y after my autocorrect changed it.
Edit: Missed some caps.
And that mod is really quick to ban people, hell they banned me last week less than a minute after I made a comment on one of their posts simply for saying that dems and the GQP weren’t the same (their post was implying that they were the same). The reason they banned me was for being a “liberal”.
That’s fucked up mod behavior.
The best part is that being a “liberal” isn’t against their rules, and my comment wasn’t even rude.
Definitely tempered my expectations about that community.
Story Time if you're curious
Basically it went like this:
“Huh, neat a lefty community. I wonder if this one is going to be a chill one I can hang out in.”
Immediately sees a “both sides” posts
“Well that’s missing some much needed context”
Makes comment and carries on
Gets ding in inbox after loading up another community
BANNED for being a “liberal”
“Well that answers that question”
The mod’s behaviour is on full display in the post as well.
The comment that got me banned
Edit: Formatting
Blue MAGA
Yep, that sounds about right for this guy. He’s a transphobic troll trying to induct Lemmy users into a suicide cult where they abstain from voting and let Trump kill them because voting for a liberal “feels bad”, and we all know some rich asshole’s feelings are more important than the millions of people living in the West Bank.
Being an effective leftist means that practicing starategic voting is a must.
No one is a perfect candidate, no one will live up to what you want your politician to do all the time, they just have to be better than the other guy and be viable to the average shmuck.
And participating in politics is something you should do. Not just going to protests but reaching out to your politicians, talking with your neighbors, participating in open house discussions, etc. You can’t do it all the time (no ones got time for that) but do it when you can and encourage others to do the same. The more people who do it the more coverage of the variety of things that you can participate in.
When ever I see massive protests in the streets I can’t help but think “If even 1% of these people showed up at City Hall meetings even once a month there would be some real change real quick.”
“I’m in this picture and I hate it” moment
Kinda funny is going back and rereading my comment here I noticed I missed quite a few and even OP didn’t catch them. I mention this because OP called out one of my comments where I was saying that they “need to touch grass” by simply correcting a single bungled pronoun.‡
That really highlights how easy it is to miss and how much OP is way overreacting here.
‡ Most my comments are fired off during down time at work so proof reading is sometimes not a luxury I can afford.
Weird, I can’t see the embeds in your comment either. Maybe aussie.zone just doesn’t support them. It doesn’t support a very long display name either, maybe I should change instances.
I’ve been posting to Liberty Hub every day for around a week, and this mod has been responding to a lot of My posts. They seemed to have a firm grasp of who I was every other time they commented on one of My posts. And the post they commented on here, it was a link to My blog, so if they read it, they should know who I am, right?
Here are some of their other comments on My posts:
https://imgur.com/8cWH9WY.png - https://aussie.zone/post/11567153/10314640
https://imgur.com/s2gYmSM.png - https://aussie.zone/post/11497681/10240630
He’s never not known who I was before, he’s always used My preferred pronouns. If this is a coincidence, it’s a bizarre one, and it’s one I can’t fix without making this post, because the day he suddenly misgenders Me is the day he bans Me.
I wouldn’t call it a bizarre coincidence at all. Typos happen literally all the time to everyone.
A single error doesn’t make a trend, a pattern of errors does.
And again that mod shoots from the hip on bans. I’d say seize the opportunity to take some time off and cool off.
Getting banned from a community can really make someone salty at the moment it happens and taking the opportunity to chill is the best course of action for one’s mental health.
Even if it was a mistake, maybe Blahaj shouldn’t have mods who shoot from the hip and end up banning trans people they accidentally misgendered. Maybe the position of moderator should entail some more responsibility to trans users. If it was a mistake, it was preventable.
Mod abuse goes as far back as the history of online moderators, that ain’t going to be fixed any time soon.
But I really think You’re looking way too into a missed capital letter and a ban for violating the rules of a community.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the reason that he missed the capital in that comment is because he copied it from another comment he made or because writing that response has become so automated for him that he didn’t think about changing pronoun. It’s not an excuse but it’s more likely than it being intentional misgendering.
That community gets overrun by people saying to vote for Biden or defending Biden’s actions so it’s a lot of work to remove all those comments (there’s a lot of space on blahaj to voice those opinions and in my experience not much space to voice critique outside of libertyhub so I’m in favour of banning those comments there in order to elevate opinions that get suppressed elsewhere). It means that mistakes are easily made, and to make it themselves easier the mods there probably ban people for comments that they consider to be in a grey area because it reduces the workload.
If being the only anti-biden community on Lemmy means misgendering trans people then maybe there shouldn’t be an anti-Biden community. If somebody is going to host a community like that, it should be someone who can do so without transphobia.
That’s not what I wrote though.
It’s kinda what you did tho.
there’s a lot of space on blahaj to voice those opinions and in my experience not much space to voice critique outside of libertyhub
Absolutely false. You can voice any opinion you like in most communities here. Including blatant transphobia, according to what I see in this thread with the people hating on OP. Liberal Hub is the only place that bans people for any remotely left-wing opinion.
I would like to resolve this issue, please contact me on Discord (username: kittenzrulz)
Ex fucking Actly. This guy has been pulling this bullshit from day one, today is just the day he let the mask drop a little too low and accidentally proved every big claim he made about not being a transphobic murderer is a lie. @LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone wants a genocide. Three of them, in fact. He wants queer people in concentration camps in the US, Palestinians being bombed in the West Bank, and every immigrant to America deported or in chains. Except the white ones, of course.
Capitalized pronouns.
This, folks, is how you delegitimize an entire movement in one easy step.
OP is mental.
You’re right. I did misgender You in that report, and I apologize. I have no excuse because I’m well aware You use capitalized pronouns. I even tried to be careful not to do so, but I still failed. I’ll fix it.
As for the comment I left up, the post is removed for violating the community rules, so I didn’t remove further comments after I removed the post itself, but You’re right – I’ll remove it.
The post was removed for a completely different reason. The post was encouraging people to lie in order to win elections – erasing the experiences of groups such as Palestinians, immigrants, the economically disadvantaged, BIPOC, and LGBTQIA+ people. There’s no way I was going to leave that up. Erasure is never okay.
It’s very infrequent that I have to remove a post, but this one very clearly violated the community guidelines.
I have no problem with You as a person, and I’ve always appreciated Your meaningful and thoughtful contributions to the community, even when I don’t fully agree. I’m sure You feel a bit hurt that I also applied a temporary ban for the post, but I did that because even though I personally like You and have tried to be nothing but an ally and friend, it would be completely inappropriate for me as a mod to show favoritism in such a case. I therefore applied the same temp ban I would to any other user who made such a post. It was genuinely nothing personal, and I’ll be honest – it wasn’t even easy for me to do the right thing. I almost sent You a DM to explain the situation, but I wasn’t sure it would be welcome. Now I wish I had.
I do believe in erasing the experiences of minorities. If I were living in Germany in 1939, I’d erase the experiences of the Jew living in My basement while talking to the Gestapo. I erase My own experiences all the time. I misgender Myself to stay in the closet to avoid violence. Never been out as goddessgender at work or school.
If what you are advocating is total exposure of all information having to do with minorities, you’re talking about actions that will get people killed. That’s why Republicans are trying to pass laws to require ID for Pornhub, you know. They want to know all about the lived experiences of gay and trans people by analysing our porn habits, so they can do violence against us. What you’re speaking in favour of is genocide.
I am glad it was just a mistake, but it was a mistake that you prevented Me from fixing the easy way. I couldn’t report the comment, couldn’t reply. So I made this post, and had to put up with being grilled on My pronoun usage and told My identity is evil by various people. I didn’t defend any oppressive systems, I outlined a strategy to just shut up for a few months until it’s safe to act again without causing a genocide. I didn’t break rule 2. But you did break rules 5 and 8. Shouting down leftism. No open discussion. I did everything I could to play by the rules and disagree with you politely. Maybe instead of making an exception for Me, it’s time to actually enforce your community’s rules by not being so ban-happy with everyone. What happened today was bound to happen eventually and it’s going to keep happening as long as nobody’s allowed to have an open discussion about the election on your community. Everyone who disagrees being banned is not an open discussion.
Lying about harboring a Jew in Nazi Germany is understandable. I personally have lied about having undocumented people in my household.
Lying about a presiden committing genocide domestically and abroad is a totally different thing. This is more comparable to claiming that Hitler wasn’t exterminating people in death camps. This type of lie results in erasure and should never be applied, especially not to garner votes in an election.
Lying and saying a president is trans-friendly when he literally just signed anti-trans legislation is also not okay. We need to be aware of what our government is doing.
But on an individual level? Absolutely. I’m actually in such a position at my own job, not as a teacher, but in which I do not disclose or even obfuscate certain facts about my clients. I would never out a queer person who did not want to be outed. I personally grew up in an extremely small conservative community where I feared for my life.
But again, that’s not what the post itself was about – it was about lying to win the election for Biden. That’s how it violated rule 2. If it were about lying to protect marginalized groups, it would have absolutely been left up.
I outlined a strategy to just shut up for a few months until it’s safe to act again without causing a genocide
But here’s where the erasure comes in: There is a genocide happening right now, like right this very moment, that wouldn’t be possible without our president’s support.
I hope I’ve addressed all Your points. In any case, I re-emphasize that I cannot allow a post that suggests we lie to cover/erase genocide, border fascism, transphobia, and any other form of oppression by the state, for the same reason that I wouldn’t allow a Maoist to deny the people who died due to state-induced famine.
It’s very simple, language is for the benefit of communication. Ain’t nobody got time to fuck with hyper-specific pronouns. They/them is a well understood way to reference people; capitalizing that shit is confusing. Learn to get along with people, OP. Sometimes other people compromise for your, sometimes you compromise for others.
The mod log shows the ban was for violating rule two of the community (both for the post and user). Seems like there were others who had comments removed and were banned for 6d as well around the same time. Perhaps the mod didn’t realize who You were and was banning on autopilot to clean things up in the community?
Also, FWIW, in my client (Alexandrite). and from what I can see in Your screenshots, pronouns aren’t showing up next to Your username where the comment is. I’m absolutely not defending anyone transphobic, but not everyone is going to click through to the profile to see is pronouns are in the profile. I wanted to let You know about that incase that’s some setting on aussie.zone or something that could be fixed and make things better.
The word “capitalised” brings My display name over the character limit, so the best I can do is “They/You”. I can’t even change it to “They/Them/You”
Do different instances have different character limits?
I did some tests on a couple of my alts and “Grail (They/Them/Caps)” fit on all of them.
Maybe try that?
They do have different limits.
capitalised pronouns are on a fundamental level as valid as any other gendered pronouns. fucking up can happen but not accepting OPs pronouns because they are unusual is shit
i’m still blocking OP tho because no gods no mastershonestly deities are also fundamentally ok. just dont be a cunt, but thats true for everyone.
i personally find the words god and deity a bit loaded with superiority, but thats on me
I can’t even begin to imagine the daily mental gymnastics required to reconcile thinking of yourself as a god and also claiming to be an anarchist lmao
No gods no masters all the way.
Cool, thank you for the pronoun support and also I’m reporting you for saying My gender identity shouldn’t exist. Your comment is simultaneously very inclusive and not at all accepting.
Just curious, is your hatred of people born a certain way based on racism or sexism? Do you hate people like OP as an ethnic group or as a gender?
That thread was removed by a community mod and I can’t find any examples of deliberate misgendering in remaining posts.
I will action deliberate misgendering, but in this case, the posts have already been removed.
Sorry. I woke up to a lot of pings. Here is where I misgendered OP. I’ve fixed it now, but I accidentally used a lowercase Y on “You.” I’m aware OP uses capitalized pronouns. It wasn’t intentional, but I still feel terrible about it, and I’ll accept any consequences for doing so.
I just removed the other comment with misgendering, and you’ll see it now in the modlog. I did not initially remove it because the post itself had been removed at that point, but in hindsight this was not the right call.
For the record, I’ve always been quite outspoken against any form of genocide, including that against queer people, and I say that as a member of the queer community.
I’ll accept whatever call you want to make. I feel terrible that OP feels hurt. I’ve always tried to be supportive of Them, and to be honest I quite enjoy having Them in the community.
I’ll accept whatever call you want to make.
I have no plans on taking action against your account or anyone else’s account for accidental misgendering, especially so when it has been removed or corrected. Nor would I myself remove a post in a discussion that has already been removed entirely.
I will remove posts and comments with misgendering that remain visible to users, even if it was accidental, but moderation action against the posters account itself would require that the action be deliberate or sustained.
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone’s post doesn’t show up in the modlog as removed for being transphobic. It wasn’t technically removed. I can see it on his profile from lemmy.ca and from Blahaj zone. You can remove it for misgendering if you click on his profile. And you should, so there’s a record of the fact that he’s a transphobe who only believes in trans inclusion for his merry band of suicide cultists.
Can you link me to the post on blahaj.zone please?
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/9761984
I don’t expect you can remove it by clicking on it as the post it’s in reply to is removed. You’d have to either do a direct API call or just access the comment from his profile. Or maybe you could restore the post to make the comment visible, remove the comment, and then remove the post back out again.
The moderation actions weren’t federated to aussie.zone, you can read the comments in the thread from this instance. https://aussie.zone/post/11840603
Fucking hell, @LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone being blatantly transphobic the minute he disagrees with someone. WhO cOuLd HaVe PrEdIcTed THaT?
Oh yeah, I did. @ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone I am begging you to ban this transphobe. When I made the original post calling for removal of this community, you said they were trans folk with a difference of opinion who needed a safe space to express their views. Well, now it’s a safe space to express transphobia. They have rules against transphobia and so you do. At the very least, change the leadership of this community to someone who doesn’t misgender trans people for supporting Biden. The context of what this community is doing is not what you thought it was when you decided to allow it. These are not innocent trans people who just have a disagreement on how to protect trans people, they are genocide supporters who use transphobic violence against those who disagree.
You said you weren’t going to get involved as long as they didn’t break the instance guidelines. Well now they are. It’s time to act. They did the thing you said there would be consequences for doing.
These are not innocent trans people who just have a disagreement on how to protect trans people, they are genocide supporters who use transphobic violence against those who disagree
This is blatantly false. We openly oppose all forms of genocide and transphobia. There’s not a single post or comment defending genocide or transphobia of any kind. If there were, then they’ve been removed and the users banned.
And yet you misgender OP for saying to take action to prevent a genocide. Everything that comes out of your mouth is a lie.
I (hope) that this is a massive misunderstanding, I believe the problem is that the article posted says that people should simply accept Biden and be happy (I’m doing damage control here so if I’m completely wrong please correct me).
That’s not what it says. It says Biden is a genocidal asshole and a symbol of failed democracy. It sounds like you didn’t read it.
I’m desperately trying to fix the situation while trying to get a flight after the outages turned all air infrastructure non functional. I assume the problem is with it implying that lying is ok in politics?
Kindly please stop making things worse for yourself, I just woke up to this absolute disaster.
Fair enough. I’ll step aside until this is resolved. I fully trust your judgment.
I’m sorry I’m not able to moderate the community all the time, however that doesn’t mean that it deserves to be banned. I’m genuinely trying and doing what I can.
It deserves to be banned if Linkopenschest is in charge of it. Go make your own non-transphobic community, or kick this guy out of the one that already exists.
I do not have the power to remove him, if he willingly chooses to step down I will continue the community (in a less restricted manner). Until then I will continue doing my job of trying to reign in the worst parts.
As a moderator of LibertyHub I apologize, I was busy within that time and was not available to notice this incident. I can assure you that as a Trans person I do not accept Transphobia and will deal with the situation accordingly.
