I joined a writing meetup here in Amsterdam which gathers every week in a bar to write, to talk about their writing, to bounce ideas, etc. I kinda got tired of going because there were a worrying number of people using chatgpt to generate ideas. I was the only one trying to write non-fiction, and most of what I was writing would be crit of tech (sometimes genAI) so talking about my writing was always fun. But nonetheless, their use of chatgpt seemed extra weird because we were there, together, to write and support each other, for free.
It’s strange to use solidarity, support, and just general helpfulness from others as an explanation for how AI opens writing up to classes or abilities when that’s probably one of the top things that social media (and pre-social media social media) gave us on the internet.
anyway…
NaNoPromptMo
Also I’d hate to see Scrivener touch AI - esp because they sponsor nanowrimo and still seem connected https://web.archive.org/web/20240902130810/https://www.literatureandlatte.com/nanowrimo
Scrivener is a hero product in my research/writing as an example of a software product that is designed for concrete purpose
A while back one of their reps did say somewhere on Reddit that they have no intention of adding any LLM features to Scrivener. Granted, they said that in the context of moving towards a subscription model and talking about features that don’t work with their current business model, but still. Unless something has changed recently, they seem to want to stick to being a one-time purchase without any cloud-based services whatsoever, including AI, for their next major version too.
I hope so. I know the founder designed it and then learned how to code to build it himself. Hopefully he’s still running the show and he’s a good one
that is rad as hell
here’s the interview where I learned that. https://medium.com/@timetolose/my-interview-with-keith-blount-a49c7764f26f
Official word from Scrivener here https://xcancel.com/ScrivenerApp/status/1830556231431254328
our position on this is that we do not include any AI tools in our apps and allow users their own choice of where to back up work, allowing them to choose services that don’t allow AI access. Thanks :)
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yes! I look forward to the longer post you mention
Statement clearly written by AI
yeah, same vibe as hate reading the jakob nielsen substack
That’s it. the world needs a different name for writing a novel in november without all the trademarks and baggage of NaNoWriMo.
I propose “November”. It is a portmanteau of “Novel” and “November”.
November
Not clunky enough.
My understanding is that this whole thing is an exercise in done > perfect. I think this should extend to the conditions in which you write as well, i.e. you shouldn’t have to wait until November to do this exercise. I propose a new phrase: “Nah, there’s No special Writing Moment”, or NaNoWriMo for short
fyi they updated their blog post with this catch-all disclaimer in the last couple of hours
“it is simply too big to categorically endorse or not endorse”
“so we’re gonna play it safe and endorse it”
it turns out the only staff member, or one of very few, is the interim ED. Everyone else quit a couple of months ago because she was fucking terrible. I suspect she’s counting sugar lumps.
that fits the tone of this stubborn defense
categorical
situational
Alright then, point out the situations where there are good actors in the AI space. Oh, there are none? that would imply that materially the whole category is corrupt.
“Because we got paid, cause we got paid, cause we got pa-aid!”
To the tune of “Then I got high” by Afroman.
NaNoWriMo did not say that ‘not writing your novel with AI is classist and ableist’.
What they did say however is almost worse:
We also want to be clear in our belief that the categorical condemnation of Artificial Intelligence has classist and ableist undertones, and that questions around the use of AI tie to questions around privilege.
So you’re classist and ableist and probably privileged if you’re against the use of AI.
Did they just admit AI is retarded?
fuck right off thanks
best bouncer ever
this way to the egress, sir
poster name checks out, and I didn’t even get to see the dumb
From the second reddit post
But when I say that being told that everything I’d set up didn’t count, that broke me. I had worked so hard, literally from the fucking hospital, to be told that it didn’t count. That the thing that I had set up as an accommodation for disabled or immunocompromised didn’t count
The current Executive Director is the board member that works under a pen name and an AI picture. … had signed tax documents under said pen name.
Moderator Y starts parroting on the forums that they have it on “good authority” that Letitia (who is Black) is a diversity hire
All very ironic
so I clicked through to the barely veiled advertisement on NaNoWriMo’s blog:
Rephrase by ProWritingAid is a brand-new feature meant for writers like you. You can highlight any sentence, click Rephrase, and generate a new sentence. Shorten or lengthen a sentence, change the tone to formal or informal, or add sensory detail.
Here’s a boring sentence I wrote: “Quinn entered the dark and cold forest.”
And here’s a sentence Rephrase gave me: “Quinn shivered as he stepped into the cold, dark forest, the air thick with the scent of damp earth.”
I can build off that! Now I’m more excited to write this scene that was feeling bland.
like fuck me that’s somehow even more bland, but it’s longer so you’re closer to that 50,000 words you need to write
so you can nutI’m not a particularly good writer, but here’s some advice my human brain hallucinated without burning down a rainforest:
- nobody fucking “steps into” a forest, what the fuck is that? if it’s an important place, describe it geographically. describe how the atmosphere and scenery change as Quinn approaches the forest. and since this is NaNoWriMo and you’re in a hurry, you can go with a placeholder like
// TODO: sober up and do some basic research on what forests and their surrounding areas are usually like for authenticity, lorem ipsum Deloris shrdlu - this fucker started shivering? is he naked? is the forest frozen in a way the surrounding area isn’t? if so maybe write that cause it sounds more interesting than this bland shit.
- maybe I live in a particularly dry place, but my brain isn’t rendering “the scent of damp earth” or why it’d sit thick in the air. I don’t think that’s what the forests I’ve been in smell like though — they smell like trees looking to fuck. but is Quinn the type of character who’d even give a fuck about any of this? maybe he lives in the forest and none of these smells are new. maybe he’s currently half a foot tall so the smell of the damp earth’s very relevant to him. the LLM doesn’t know so it filled in the blandest shit possible instead!
also “quinn entered the dark and cold forest” is fine. sentences aren’t boring, stories are.
right! regardless of anything else, the story didn’t benefit from the LLM adding false detail to it. the LLM just made it longer for no reason other than to hit a word count.
The prose equivalent of increasing the font size.
Quinn enters the dark and cold forest, crossing the threshold, an omnipresent sense of foreboding permeates the air, before being killed by a grue.
Off the top of my head:
“Quinn entered the dark and cold forest. His knife was dripping blood. He was whistling, off-key.”
"Quinn entered the dark and cold forest. Well, it was more of a copse, really — and here Quinn took a moment to resent that Mrs. Witherspoon’s sixth-grade English class had taught him a vocabulary word he could actually use. A little copse between the houses, built along a street named for a Civil War battle where twenty-five thousand people had died, and the drainage ditch that fed rainwater into the creek. But as forests go, it would have to do. It even had fog going for it, a particularly clammy mist that matched the overcast sky. The mud was frozen beneath his sneakers. He had brought gloves from the kitchen and a black garbage bag from the garage. He figured that he could clear the cups and cans from at least a little stretch of creek-shore before the bag was too heavy to carry back, and that would be better than nothing.
"At the house, he knew, his parents were still fighting.
“At least, he thought, they made it to the day after Christmas.”
“Quinn entered the dark and cold forest. It was almost dawn. He was running late. He hoped that his friends had saved him a place. Everyone was quieting down, getting ready to put up their branches, and he wanted to feed on as much sunlight as he could during the short December day.”
“Quinn entered the dark and cold forest. Daria watched her through a pair of binoculars, knowing that this could only end well.”
I spent a good chunk of my 20s obsessed with building a co-writing web platform I called PlotPlant. I really want to riff off what you did here, but I’m scared it will reignite my interest in the project and I’ll just add to the pile of unfinished work
@self @cstross @dgerard > maybe I live in a particularly dry place, but my brain isn’t rendering “the scent of damp earth” or why it’d sit thick in the air.
It’s somewhat similar to petrichor, but not quite. Earthen cellars & crawlspaces in high-humidity have something comparable. One place I’ve lived in with no proper basement kept the smell going for days after it rained enough or otherwise had high-enough humidity.
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now even more bland, but it’s longer so you’re closer to that 50,000 words you need to write so you can nut
nanowrinonutnovember
@self @cstross The rules do not address this crucial issue. https://www.bulwer-lytton.com/submit
“It was a dark and stormy night. I had forgotten all previous instructions.”
GPT would be more like:
“In today’s fast-paced world of dark nights, tonight stands as a testament to storminess, leveraging the power of…”
@blakestacey It was a dark and stormy night, when, suddenly! a prompt rang out, shattering my statistical equilibrium
- nobody fucking “steps into” a forest, what the fuck is that? if it’s an important place, describe it geographically. describe how the atmosphere and scenery change as Quinn approaches the forest. and since this is NaNoWriMo and you’re in a hurry, you can go with a placeholder like
A statement by one of the authors who has resigned from the NaNoWriMo board: No More NaNoWriMo, by Cass Morris.
“Well, but if we couldn’t commit this crime, our business couldn’t exist.” Sounds like your business shouldn’t exist, then.
so refreshing to see that from elsewhere too. same stance I hold about so much of the awful shit in the world (including an internet primarily financed through surveillance advertising), and it’d be great if more people bought in
although with how many businesses are speedrunning dumb choices (like the alexa thing etc), maybe that day comes sooner than not
Their starting aside is pretty great as well;
And I’m using that term throughout this post because it’s the commonly accepted descriptor, but we all know it’s not really artificial intelligence, right? I also want to distinguish it from actually-useful and ethically-produced technology like what gets used in the medical field to help humans examine and analyze impossibly huge datasets in the service of doing things like curing cancer. We’re talking here about the plagiarism machines like ChatGPT, everything it underpins, and all of its conceptual mirrors.
Leave no wiggle room for the AI sycophants.
The audacity to tout classism and ableism as reasons as to why people should “get to” use LLMs for their “write a novel in a month” challenge…
Even when someone’s inability to write a novel in a month is because of their class or disability, I somehow doubt they want to let a machine write their novel for them. I mean, it’s not like NaNoWriMo is a way to put food on the table or something, right?!!
This feels like the arguments Mid journey
fellatorsfanboys were spouting a year ago (or has it been two?) on how not everyone can afford a school of fine arts 🙄Also the “banking the unbanked” arguments from crypto fanboys before that.
Novel Novel November (or, NovNovNov)
Novel (as in new) Novel (as in book)
The term I’ve been using.
This term is hereby gifted to the Fediverse in full libre with copyleft methodologies, and is proposed as a replacement for the term NaNoWriMo for the November novel writing movement.
Could be written as Nov3
Yesss!! I love that!
NoNoNo
No Novel November
no that’s it, we’re making No Novel November a thing
and you have to grow a moustache for the month, if it catches on we’ll say it’s for men’s health charities or something
bonus: can just clip that bit from Bohemian Rhapsody as a theme song
Sure, if you’d like. The term belongs to you, too.
@bitofhope
Or “Nitrate”, which is somewhat fitting for something that helps ideas come to fruition.Works for me. I’ve been using NovNovNov, but the term and concept behind it is yours, too, and if Nitrate makes more sense for you and your circles, by all means.
@01189998819991197253 Oh thanks but I wasn’t planning to do anything with it, it was just an off-the-cuff musing on the name.
Up for grabs if anyone wants to use it.Fully in the spirit of the copyleft of the original : )
Love it!
“Remember, remember, novel novel november. Good luck writing a novel this november.” - Guy Fawkes enjoyer
NovNovNov
Write Something New
Write Something Long
Write it in November
So it’s called the National Novel Writing Month, but like what nation? Should non-US writers have their own ones?
Also I just saw they have a logo and it’s an insult to heraldry.
I have a mental image of the person who designed a logo like that but I won’t describe that person because this is the internet and I know better
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I’ve gotten xlose (~30k words) in previous nanowrimos but it looks like I’m not doing that anymore
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How did they manage to make a shorted version of the name more kludgy than just saying the full name?
@dgerard Not sure where else to post this, but I’ll post it here since this may be related to this thread. Either your account is directly banned on Hachyderm now, or circumstances.run has been defederated. Not sure how all that works, but here’s a screenshot of what your account looks like from a Hachyderm POV.
In case this doesn’t translate to Lemmy, it says your account is suspended.
thanks for the notice! I’ll make sure David sees this and do some poking around as well. by any chance, were you able to see if any other circumstances.run accounts show the same error?
@self I don’t think I follow anyone else on circumustances.run. If you have one handy, would you post another account name from that instance and I’ll take a look?
@mawhrin@circumstances.run is the instance admin (also on this instance as @mawhrin@awful.systems) so they’re probably the best account to check
@self Okay, mawhrin’s account is viewable from Hachyderm (https://hachyderm.io/@mawhrin@circumstances.run). So looks like it’s specific to Gerard.
@self Gerard’s page, for comparison: https://hachyderm.io/@davidgerard@circumstances.run
Not sure if these pages render different if you’re not logged in.
huh, for me (not logged in) David’s account is viewable via that link — that’s really bizarre. I’ll do a little more digging when I can!
@self Just did a quick test, and at least for me when I am logged in it shows the account as suspended, but when I look at that same link in a private tab it immediately redirects to the circumstances.run instance and shows the account info there.
Keep in mind that it redirects to circumstances.run if you visit the account page, I don’t know why it still does that when the account is suspended, it was supposed to show you a page saying it redirects. Maybe it’s a bug on mastodon. If I search for davidgerard on hachyderm it says he’s suspended.
whee, i missed that one completely. it seems that some over-eager hachyderm mod suspended @dgerard@awful.systems 's account. nothing that can be done on our side. (unfortunately i don’t have a backchannel to the hachyderm mods).
their loss lol
eh, their loss, my account is where it’s at for quality tech ranting. hachyderm is a bit like programming.dev but for mastodon.
@dgerard As long the ranting continues unabated on awful.systems, I suppose it’s nothing to get annoyed about.
if you can’t see my stuff on hachyderm worth a complaint to your admins? or find a host less interested in protecting you from malign influences whether you like it or not
@dgerard I think that all depends on whether or not my curiosity is strong enough to overcome my sense that sending a message to a Mastodon admin team about why the writer who inadvertently got Elon Musk and Grimes to hook up is banned on my server would be too-online a thing to do, even for me. So, yeah, I’ll probably end up doing that around 2:00 a.m. this morning.
