I’s heard news that BlueSky has been growing a lot as Xitter becomes worse and worse, but why do people seem to prefer BlueSky? This confuses me because BlueSky does not have any federalization technologies built into it, meaning it’s just another centralized platform, and thus vulnerable to the same things that make modern social media so horrible.
And so, in the hopes of having a better understanding, I’ve come here to ask what problems Mastodon has that keep people from migrating to it and what is BlueSky doing so right that it attracts so many people.
This question is directed to those who have used all three platforms, although others are free to put out their own thoughts.
(To be clear, I’ve never used Xitter, BlueSky or Mastodon. I’m asking specifically so that I don’t have to make an account on each to find out by myself.)
Edit:
Edit2: (changed the wording a bit on the last part of point 1 to make my point clearer.)
From reading the comments, here are what seems to be the main reasons:
- Federation is hard
The concept of federation seems to be harder to grasp than tech people expected. As one user pointed out, tech literacy is much less prevalent than tech folk might expect.
On Mastodon, you must pick an instance, for some weird “federation” tech reason, whatever that means; and thanks to that “federation” there are some post you cannot see (due to defederalization). To someone who barely understands what a server is, the complex network of federalization is to much to bare.
BlueSky, on the other hand, is simple: just go to this website, creating an account and Ta Da! Done! No need to understand anything else.
The federalized nature of Mastodon seems to be its biggest flaw.
The unfamiliar and more complex nature of Mastodon’s federalization technology seems to be its biggest obstacle towards achieving mass adoption.
- No Algorithm
Mastodon has no algorithm to surface relevant posts, it is just a chronological timeline. Although some prefer this, others don’t and would rather have an algorithm serving them good quality post instead of spending 10h+ curating a subscription feed.
- UI and UX
People say that Mastodon (and Lemmy) have HORRIBLE UX, which will surely drive many away from Mastodon. Also, some pointed out that BlueSky’s overall design more closely follows that of Twitter, so BlueSky quite literally looks more like pre-Musk Xitter.
Because the mastodon evangelists are horrible.
Back when there was any question of what platform to migrate to? Threads and bluesky were “Get an invite and make an account”
Mastodon was people insisting that EVERYONE needed to understand what federation is and the underlying philosophy. When really they should have just said “Sign up for one of these instances. It is like email where it doesn’t really matter what provider you have”. Countless times I tried to explain to folk on a message board or discord and would say “Just make an account on one of these four or five instances”. And, like clockwork, someone would “well ackshually” me and insist that people can’t use Mastodon without understanding the fundamental concept of federation and how picking the right instance is important and people can just delete and remake their accounts until they are satisfied.
So when it was time for the big influencers to move? They went to where people were already congregating and where they didn’t need to host an educational seminar to tell someone how to make an account.
You literally cannot search for Mastodon without getting a weird ass 2-paragraph manifesto about The Fediverse.
End users just want to use shit.
A big issue with the 2022 signup wave was the influx of new Masto websites, run by new admins. The subscription model of ActivityPub meant they were mostly contentless, and they weren’t seeded by knowledgeable users. People needed to understand the basics of federation to find anything because nothing was being syndicated on those sites.
And then a bunch of them shut down when admins who were ok hosting hundreds of like-minded users suddenly had thousands of generalist users flooding their sites.
It was major human infrastructure failure.
And that was as a whole bunch of tenured users started getting hostile over people not adopting the idiosyncratic nettiquite of the was-niche-only-yesterday space. The server blocks started rolling out, and people needed to understand the idea of “federation” (and, apparently, “the Internet”) to understand why they were being “denied access” to the cranky people, trolls, and unmoderated spaces.
The truth is, most people don’t like the internet. They like the simple, streamlined process of just being owned by corporate interests. Walles gardens work for them in a way public parks never will.
The difference is that you won’t find yourself unable to send an e-mail because the admin of your e-mail server doesn’t like someone from the recipient’s e-mail server.
No? There are a lot of mail providers that are listed as spam on other providers „just because“. So yes, that literally does happen.
deleted by creator
Why not?
Well, you know that by desing wassap, telegram, etc can communicate with each other but they intentionally cut that feature to only be able to menssege server internally?
You have to pick a Mastodon server, before you know anything about anything. The acquisition funnel probably drops 90% of the people checking it out right there.
☝️ This. It’s why I put off signing up for Mastodon for a long time, even though I am a big supporter of the Fediverse.
Felt the same about Lemmy when I signed up.
Just pick an open one, that’s the easiest choice. No essays, no worrying about being denied, easy.
You’ve stated this at least twice in this thread. People aren’t like that, just in general. Heck, I understood it and still had trouble picking a server for Lemmy and mastadon.
Do I want a single topic or domain to define me? Will a small server have popular posts? Will it have popular people? I can’t find this popular account because I’m typing in username instead of user+domain.
I created and deleted at least 5 before I gave up and just picked one. Is that what most people would do?
I don’t think you’re wrong, but I think you are not putting yourself in the shoes of most users who want to follow a celebrity or a train station or space agency and can’t even find their account.
I’m sorry I wasn’t entirely clear, BIG server, with open sign-ups. The complaints about finding people aren’t really valid when we have big servers like this one or mastodon.social. Such servers have the best reach and the easiest onboarding. Pick those.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
People expecting a new Twitter when switching to Mastodon were met with weird behavior and nerds who told them the awful search function or weird comment count is working correctly because that’s how federation works. Well if that’s the case then federation is shit.
This is unfortunately the world of open-source.
- Nerd tells you to use the open-source thing.
- Non-technical tries it and asks questions
- Nerd proclaims it’s not a real problem/your fault/not applicable/fix it yourself
- Some company takes that open-source version or idea, makes it easier for end users and monetize it
- Nerd gets angry and repeats step 1
Source: I am nerd and I contribute to open-source.
Because in Bluesky, you open the app, create an account, and you’re good to go.
Federation is way too complex of an idea for the average person. Picking a server and then understanding instances is much too complicated.
…BlueSky does not have any federalization technologies built into it, meaning it’s just another centralized platform, and thus vulnerable to the same things that make modern social media so horrible.
Ask your average social media user what any of that means and you’ll get blank stares.
deleted by creator
Oof. That is bleak, and all the more so because you’re probably dead on
Bluesky is way more approachable than Mastodon. Most people don’t want to have to learn what an instance is.
Removed by mod
Blame Apple I guess
The year is 2034 and 96% of the population is unemployed because they are all forced to “do their own research” on literally everything and there’s no time to work. We all must research every niche topic to fully understand it before using it or the other 4% calls us stupid and lazy.
No longer are we allowed to just buy a shower head, or bike or sign up for email without sources cited and proof we know everything about said thing.
Have kids? Do their research too, no chocolate milk unless I’ve proven why it’s good.
Elderly parents? Don’t let them touch that Roku remote. I need a research paper on all the options I explored.
Sorry for all the sarcasm. I fix my house, I work, I mow the lawn and shuttle children to sports, and my friend says check this bluesky thing out, 30 seconds and I’m signed up and have a friend and a discover tab and a search that works. Life’s chaotic and I don’t want to be defined as stupid because I can’t spend hours figuring something out in place of something I think is more important.
All this not directed at you specifically but I guess it hit a nerve.
Removed by mod
its about blueskys volume reaching a ‘critical mass’ which will continue to then draw users.
huge groups (recently, brazil) moved there en-masse because it already had a ton of users.
its the same reason twiiter even still has users… they dont want to leave that volume of subscribers.
Personal answer: I draw art for a stupidly niche internet community. I’m a less popular artist so I go wear the community already is. I found one other artist on Mastodon and several on Bluesky.
deleted by creator
Personally I have zero interest in influencers and I’d rather use a platform that isn’t designed to amplify their content. That’s just me.
deleted by creator
Very true, good point. I’m looking at it from my own selfish point of view. 😁
It’s lack of marketing since it is not a business, and people conflating useful optional features with confusing usage.
Everyone I know moved to bluesky, after which bluesky basically immediately sold out to crypto people. I brought up the idea of “hey, this is why I think mastodon is a lot better, because it’s impossible for it to sell out entirely”, to which one person lost their fucking shit and responded stating that I was “fear mongering”.
This person also said they didn’t care if a business owned all their data and controlled their entire life because “all their data is owned already anyway”.
This same person also said that after the recent US election they “spent the night throwing up until they were dry heaving and crying”.
Why they claim to not care about their life being controlled by corporate entities, but claim to care so hard about their life being controlled by a government that they say they have a physical reaction to it is a subject I haven’t broached because I’m sure they wouldn’t be able to see their hypocrisy if they pointed the James Webb telescope at themselves.
In a nut shell, many people are incredibly stupid and not at all interested in their best interests unless the news tells them which interests they should care about.
basically immediately sold out to crypto people.
Wait what? I know very little about BlueSky and even less about the people behind it, so I didn’t know that. Could you send me a link to more info?
https://bsky.social/about/blog/10-24-2024-series-a
They announced a series A in which they stated they are implementing paid features through a subscription model and took 15 million dollars from Blockchain Capital.
They say in this statement they won’t “Hyper Financialize” the platform, which is corporate doublespeak for “We are now monetizing this platform”.
The additions to their board are people who come from crypto/NFT companies.
As a result, the clock is now ticking on Bluesky and its destruction is inevitable due to the laws of capitalism.
People don’t care about federation. Or vendor lock-in.
I haven’t tried bluesky, but mastodon seems a little broken by design. I’d you go to a post you are always told that the host server may have more replies. Things like that make it seem immature and perhaps just a bad solution compared to a monolithic approach.
If you don’t like the instance (why wouldn’t I?) you can just move to a different one. Yes, and restart my network. It’s not really a good solution. I would like to exist on mastodon and just use some server. If I don’t like it, continue somewhere else.
Two things I don’t see anybody saying:
- BlueSky is has venture capital funding, giving it greater marketing capabilities. Capitalism isn’t won by having a better product, it’s won by convincing people they should buy your product.
- Dumb luck. Sometimes things just go viral, and you can try to figure it out in hindsight, but even that’s just a guess. If people could accurately predict what was going to be popular, venture capitalists wouldn’t have like a 90% miss rate.
Most people don’t know much, and don’t care that they don’t know much. Half of US adults can’t read at a 6th grade level. They don’t care about and probably do not understand complex topics.
That’s it. They just want cat gifs, and that’s the end of the thought.
I knew someone who was smart and successful and politically aware. She didn’t care about any of this. She was tired from work and just wanted the familiar ease or twitter. Trying to figure out which server to sign up for and finding content was too much work.
A lot of people have executive dysfunction. Making a choice is hard.
I honestly don’t get the whole “picking an instance is hard” thing, especially with masto. “Just use the default instance, mastodon.social, unless you have a reason not to,” bang problem solved. Then it’d become a larger point of failure but if it went down “well now that you sorta understand it make an acct on the server most of your follows were on,” bang 'nother problem solved.
Hell I have been diagnosed with executive function disorders and I can figure it out, it’s not as hard as people pretend, we’ve all done it with email since like '95. “It’s hard” is just twitter/bluesky propaganda!
Some instance have different rule as well as block other instances which will throw anyone off especially if it a big well-known instance like
Mastodon.socialwhich alienate large userbase of Fedi.Tbf, some people want that. I prefer my instance which federates with anyone willing making you choose what to block yourself (aside from the reactionary instances that don’t like that we don’t block their enemy instances by default so they block ours, of course), but not just anyone can join my instance, so I can’t recommend that unless they qualify. If you have a better general instance I can recommend instead of .social I’ll definitely check it out!
My point is that it not everyone (newcomers especially) would know about various Fedi instances having a blocklist and some even blocking much popular instances. You are assuming that they would at least read usually large list of blocklist or admins even share the blocklist in the first place and check to see if it doesn’t block the instance which has the user they want to follow and interact with.
Sure, but if they don’t know about it it isn’t influencing their choice. What I’m assuming is they’ll sign up for the one I tell them about and later if they have a reason to switch, like they find out “oh my instance blocks something I want to see” they’ll have learned enough to fix that on their own by virtue of using the thing teaching you about the thing. You seem to be ascribing some permanence to this choice, where there is none, you can simply make a new account, or another account and keep both, or 500 accounts if you’re a weirdo, it literally does not matter, there’s account migration. Furthermore there’s guides if you’re really struggling with the concept that pop up when you google “what is mastodon.” Like sure, my grandma couldn’t turn the computer on so she probably couldn’t figure it out, but it’s really not as hard as people make it out to be.
I’ve heard that there’s some problems with picking up only the most popular servers, and that mastodon.social has some moderation issues
Like I said “sure that makes it a bigger point of failure, but if it ever goes down just make one on whatever server most of your follows are on.”
As for the moderation issues, maybe, idk, but then again if you’re unhappy with the moderation by the time you get to that point “federation” is no longer a big scary word and you’ve likely found an instance you’d like to move to by virtue of just seeing it on your feed in .social, and on top of that masto lets you migrate accounts even, so it makes that a lot less painful to do.
I get the impression that some people have such decision fatigue, asking them to do something seemingly trivial is akin to asking someone without limbs to pick up a spoon.
People’s brains don’t work good.
Then they shouldn’t be able to decide to move to blusky either if they’re that paralyzed by choice.
And tbh I get it, I’ve been debating myself on just trimming my beard for like 6mo, and that much like “what masto instance should I join” is a preeetty consequence free decision, but imo the masto choice is even less consequential, you could make an acct on literally every instance that’ll take you if you wanted for free and lurk them and/or abandon them at will and remake another at will too whereas the beard has to grow for a while.
Also I gotta link this song since it’s so relevant lol.
Bluesky has brand recognition (founded by the same dude as Twitter), more people and “feels like twitter”, in the sense of what you see, more than mastodon. Also, news outlets seem to be migrating there.
Mastodon (and pleroma, misskey, etc) is seen as a place for weirdos and techies, with “nothing interesting going on”. Several people mentioned this already one way or another, but that most servers/instances are “specific” about whatever means that people will feel that they might miss out on something by choosing the wrong server.
I’d say its because less people probably know of mastodon then bluesky, since on Twitter everyone seems to be making a bluesky account but no one a mastodon account which would result in less people knowing about it.
