Hey all,
So I recently decided to go vegan. My personal reasons for ditching animal products were because of environmental factors, animal welfare, and trying to maintain consistency with the values I hold to their logical ends.
I was curious. I’ve seen a lot of hate towards vegans online, admittedly being someone who partook in that several years ago myself to a small degree. While I’m glad and very lucky people I know closely have been making accommodations for me, I’m also worried about mentioning or bringing it up to people I’m getting to know since I don’t want to rub them the wrong way if they possibly have these notions that being vegan and veganism are a bad thing. Namely when it’s relevant in conversation like people asking me why I read ingredients lists or can’t have something they’re offering me, which I’ve been half-lying attributing to food allergies and intolerances out of worry (I’m lactose intolerant, which helps as a cop-out).
I’m wanting to know what people dislike about vegans, whether they’re based on previous experiences they’ve had, or preconceived notions, and what would make someone a “good vegan” in their eyes. I know I shouldn’t be a people-pleaser, but knowing this stuff would definitely help me gain the confidence to be more open about myself and my personal values to others who don’t necessarily share said values.
Thanks in advance, I’ll try to respond where possible, but it’s going to be a busy day for me, though I do read all replies to posts I make.
- VerticaGG ( @VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) 5•19 hours ago
Respond to right wing reactionaries who go out of their way to complain about vegans simply with “😇💌Triggered”
There. Now you are the Good Vegan™️
- 🏴 hamid abbasi [he/him] 🏴 ( @hamid@vegantheoryclub.org ) 4•19 hours ago
Not by asking non vegans. Vegans are the voice for the voiceless and you’re taking part in a boycott that challenge peoples core beliefs. To be a good vegan is to push back and disturb social cohesion which people do not like. I’m not a vegan to make friends, I’m vegan to do the right thing.
- jjjalljs ( @jjjalljs@ttrpg.network ) 4•20 hours ago
I don’t think there are good arguments for eating meat, and I think people get mad at vegans because of the cognitive dissonance. “If eating meat is bad, and I eat meat, then I’m bad. But I’m not bad! They must be bad! They suck!”
Sometimes you see this with other things. Like if someone walks or takes a bike instead of driving for the environment. “If driving is bad for the environment, and I do a lot of driving, I’m doing bad. But I’m a good person! Fuck them for making me feel bad!”
Most people are just large children.
Sometimes people try to justify eating meat. Some reasons are more defensible than others. Someone with severe allergies might have trouble getting nutrition from vegan options. Someone saying “but I enjoy it” is acting like a child.
In short, most people are operating mostly on emotional levels. Facts don’t really matter. Feelings drive them. I think this is the root of most of our problems, honestly, that people can’t put aside their emotions.
Personally, I try to minimize how much meat I eat, but I’m okay with accepting sometimes I do bad things.
- vfreire85 ( @vfreire85@lemmy.ml ) 7•1 day ago
“What makes a “good vegan”, and how can I be one?”
huh… not eating/consuming animal-related products?
- The_Sasswagon ( @The_Sasswagon@beehaw.org ) 2•20 hours ago
Yeah I think “evangelical vegans” or “bad vegans” are a sort of caricature made for comedians and then everyone else to punch down on. Sure annoying vegans exist, and so do annoying meat eating people, but diet isn’t necessarily why these people are annoying.
I imagine there’s also an element of defensiveness from meat eaters as well. Even reasonably stating “I don’t eat meat because of the cruelty in the industry and the negative environmental impacts” is implicitly challenging a meat eater to consider those things, which they likely never have. And being faced with the certainty that the vegan is making that statement (the cruelty of the industry and environmental impacts are objective), the meat eater is possibly going to feel like they are being judged or attacked.
- MrFunnyMoustache ( @MrFunnyMoustache@lemmy.ml ) 4•1 day ago
As a non-vegan, I think the hatred towards vegans is unwarranted. While some vegans are being really annoying about it, the vast majority of vegans are just normal people who happened to not eat animal products. Some people will hate you regardless of what you do because they generalize all vegans as the same. Don’t waste your time trying to please them, they aren’t worth it.
In my experience, the annoying vegans are already annoying people even before becoming vegan, if you aren’t annoying to be around, you’ll be fine.
- absGeekNZ ( @absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz ) English6•1 day ago
As someone who deals with lactose intolerance.
Just don’t make it a big deal, if you can’t eat something, don’t eat it. Your needs are important, but other people are equally entitled to their own enjoyment.
I hate vegans who only do it to virtue signal, it is a personal journey keep it that way.
If someone is thoughtful enough to ask about your dietary requirements, they are probably “good people” and won’t care about it. They will just make allowances for you.
An anecdote about dietary requirements:
I have a sister in law who cannot eat onions/garlic/leeks etc… she does make a big deal about it, no dishes can have those ingredients when she is around.
Her intolerance is about at bad as mine, she gets bloated and gassy… So not dangerous, just uncomfortable.
It always feels difficult to deal with. My view is, if you want to make potatoes with cream sauce, enjoy it I’ll eat something else. - millie ( @millie@beehaw.org ) English21•2 days ago
I’m not vegan, but I find it absolutely wild that anyone thinks being kind of annoying sometimes comes anywhere near the level of moral or ethical bankruptcy involved in being complicit in the mass torture of animals for the sake of convenience. Like, okay, yeah, it’s not like we have the option of just deciding on behalf of powerful capitalists to just end factory farming. But deciding to at least try not to participate in it by changing your diet is at least something.
Don’t worry about being a “good vegan” if that means having to tiptoe around the fact that the rest of us fuel immense suffering both monetarily and through social normalization. You’re trying, and that’s great.
- AndrasKrigare ( @AndrasKrigare@beehaw.org ) 2•24 hours ago
Just curious, why aren’t you vegan if you consider it morally bankrupt to be complicit in the meat industry?
- millie ( @millie@beehaw.org ) English2•4 hours ago
I quit eating meat for a year once and it was pretty shit for my mental health. I do try to avoid the worst of factory farming as much as I can, though. Organic eggs (in my state regulations on organic eggs include a number of anti-cruelty measures), minimal chicken to reduce the death to meat quantity ratio, things like that. But also, I personally don’t feel as though the suffering inflicted on insect populations or rodent populations, or the damages of large scale farming, or the cruelty involved in transporting bees for pollenation are particularly okay either. I’m not really sure there’s such a thing as effective veganism in modern society unless you’re growing your own food at home, and I don’t have the energy, financial security, or access to land for that.
Nearly every product we consume leads to suffering and destruction. I don’t think being short of the point where you’re willing to radically change your lifestyle means I should deny that, though, even if all my spoons tend to be spent on shit like dragging myself out of bed and ensuring air quality that triggers my asthma and allergies as little as possible.
Humans are a mess. There’s a substantial cost in physical and psychological resources and energy to dwindling the impact of that mess, but there’s very little cost to at least acknowledging it and advocating for growing as a species.
- iusearchbtw ( @iusearchbtw@lemm.ee ) 41•2 days ago
Hey, glad you want to be a considerate, conscientious vegan! You won’t upset anyone as long as you follow these simple rules:
- Never admit that you are vegan
- Never talk about veganism
- When people are talking about meat, eagerly participate
- Do not eat visibly vegan food in public
- If offered meat or cheese, eat it without protest
- Do not cook vegan food if serving others
- When you see a cow, remark out loud how you want to eat it
That’s about all you need to know to be one of the Good Vegans. Hope this helps!
- wuphysics87 ( @wuphysics87@lemmy.ml ) 1•1 day ago
You sound like one of those people who deliberately tries to feed vegans animal products
- NaevaTheRat [she/her] ( @NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org ) English8•1 day ago
This person is obviously joking. They are almost certainly vegan
- DavidDoesLemmy ( @DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone ) 4•1 day ago
If people ask why you’re vegan, focus on the positives of veganism. I say: the food’s delicious, I feel healthier, and I like animals.
It frames it as something you benefit from, rather than depriving yourself of something.
- davel [he/him] ( @davel@lemmy.ml ) English28•2 days ago
You can’t really be a good vegan to people who hate vegans: the fact that they’re assholes is 100% on them and 0% on you.
Their hate of vegans comes from their own hangups. I imagine it’s one or more of:
- Their own uncomfortable feelings around eating animal products, which you are reminding them of.
- They think that vegans think that they’re “better than them,” and they resent vegans for it.
- Some weird toxic masculinity-adjacent thing.
- They just hate anything & everything that isn’t normal/consensus, for whatever reason.
Maybe there are other hangups as well; those are what immediately come to mind.
- POTOOOOOOOO ( @POTOOOOOOOO@reddthat.com ) English19•2 days ago
I was vegan for about 8 years. I just don’t bring it up often. I don’t tell people I am a vegetarian. It’s not a bragging point. It’s just one part of who I am. Don’t make it your whole identity.
- protist ( @protist@mander.xyz ) English5•2 days ago
Totally this. I have friends who are vegan, everyone in our group knows they’re vegan, and they never stand in judgment of those of us who eat meat or talk about being vegan or why they’re vegan unless they’re asked. Simply modeling their diet with total non-judgment has made them some of the best ambassadors for veganism I’ve ever met. Almost all of us have reduced our meat consumption over time as a result
- letsgo ( @letsgo@lemm.ee ) English6•1 day ago
Honestly I don’t care what you want to eat. It’s your body, you can shove whatever you like into it.
Where vegans become a problem is where they’re being evangelical about their beliefs and trying to force their audience to feel the same shock and horror as they feel when contemplating the meat industry. If all I hear from you is restricted to when I offer you food and ask if you have any dietary requirements, and is of the form “I’m vegan”, that’s absolutely fine. If we’re friends I’ll adjust the menu for you, although you might have to accept it’s only your plate that gets veganified.
You going “eww” and talking about “rotting corpses” or whatever is where it becomes a problem. If I’ve asked, obviously I’ve brought your response upon myself but you should still tone it down for the non-vegans. “I’ve looked into the meat industry and I didn’t like what I saw” would be a good first response; make sure not to release any gory details unless people are really pressing you for that level of detail.
That said, none of this is based on actual experience of offensively evangelical vegans. I’ve heard they exist but haven’t met one yet. I’ve known some people for quite a while before finding out they’re vegan, veggie or whatever.
- Delzur ( @Delzur@vegantheoryclub.org ) English2•14 hours ago
It’s not a belief. Animals being sentient is a fact. Animal agriculture being inefficient and wasteful is a fact. Animal products not being necessary for our survival is a fact.
Now you could argue that killing sentient beings is OK, but then that’s a weird moral position. And nevertheless, not a belief
- communism ( @communism@lemmy.ml ) 15•2 days ago
Most vegan hate is just reactionary and you should disregard it. It’s because vegans force omnivores to confront the reality of where their food comes from, to confront climate science, and to confront your own personal social responsibility. I think it’s very silly to be concerned with being a “good vegan”. If you don’t want to get into arguments then just eat your vegan food and move on. If people take issue with you deciding to eat the food you want to eat, and having boundaries around not wanting to eat certain foods, especially given that these decisions are based on your own moral compass, then they are complete dickheads you should not be around anyway.
I also don’t think there’s anything morally wrong with being a naggy/pushy vegan. I don’t try to convince anyone to go vegan just because I figure if they want to then they will, if there’s resistance then I have better ways to spend my time. If they’re vegan-curious they’re always welcome to ask me about it. I think whether or not you try to make other people go vegan is a personal choice, and a political choice about how to most effectively enact your politics.
I think trying to have a more progressive social circle will help you, because I have honest to god never experienced one of my friends taking issue with me being vegan, and several of my omnivorous friends have confessed to me unprompted that they feel bad about eating animal products and “should” eat more vegan food (I don’t ever even talk about veganism except for just mentioning that I’m vegan when we’re getting food together). Like I said, if they take issue with the food you choose to eat/food you refuse to eat for moral reasons, they are just plain dickheads and you should stop being friends with them.
Don’t be preachy, respect other people’s opinions. It’s simple.