After creating a fresh installation of Ubuntu 24.04, I installed DEB Firefox from APT by following Mozilla’s instructions from here. But I noticed that it was secretly replaced with Snap Firefox. I was able to verify this by checking the About Firefox page. This is the third time I noticed this.
They started doing that in a couple of years back. Saw quite a bit of backlash in the Linux news media at the time.
I’m aware that when the user runs(without adding Mozilla’s apt repository),
sudo apt install firefoxthe snap version of Firefox is installed. But I never heard that, though APT is configured to install Firefox from Mozilla’s repository, the DEB version will be uninstalled and the Snap version will be installed.
Yes, this is known. They do the same for Chromium. If you want a browser from ubuntu, it’s going to be a snap.
w3mis a proper deb 😛Looks like only firefox, chromium-browser and thunderbird are these dummy transitional packages. There’s a
fwupd-snap, but the defaultfwupdis a full deb.
Firefox now has instructions on their “Debian-based” install section about pinning their repo over Canonical’s so that doesn’t happen.
Because you’re right, Canonical does think so highly of their product that they will constantly attempt to undermine other options against your will.
That snap shit was so bad it made me switch to Arch.
It is one of the reasons many people turn away from Ubuntu.
From a security standpoint? Not even close. From a software-release validation requirement, not even in the same galaxy. If they look the same, it’s only due to Clarke’s law.
You are missing the attribution. The person you are replying to is making a joke that Canonical says they are the same, not that they are actually the same.
Clearly they’re cosplaying as a Canonical engineer whose internal explanation and pleas for them to not take this approach fell upon deaf ears /j
In Ubuntu they are the same.
firefoxversion1:1snap1-0ubuntu5is a deb that literally runs the commandsnap install firefoxin the preinst script. Check line 77 infirefox-1snap1/debian/firefox.preinstin the source tarball: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/1:1snap1-0ubuntu5There’s no magic there.
That is not the same thing as “snap and apt Firefox are the same”. They just hijacked apt to force snap in.
So both commands do the same thing… right? I’m not saying snap and apt are the same in general.
Yeah for sure, I read your comment as excusing canonical screwing with user intent but I see that’s not what you meant.
Yeah, I really dislike snap and have puppet clean it out and add in the real mozilla repo for me. If I wanted sandboxed apps I’d probably look at flatpak but I think there’s still work to be done there also.
You are missing the attribution. The person you are replying to is making a joke that Canonical says they are the same, not that they are actually the same.
Well, yes, except Canonical have made them actually do the same thing in the case of Firefox. I’m not aware of any other packages that have the deb install just run the snap install.
Chromium too iirc
Yup,
apt install chromium-browsercallssnap install chromium. Looks like thunderbird is the same. There’s a fwupd-snap deb but fwupd seems to be the default.
Yep, I am agreeing with you. The statement was never snap and deb are identical, its that canonical is making them do identical things.
Yeah, I just liked that bit of the meme. In the prank the meme is based on, they really are the same.
Yes. That was the last straw for me. I switched to debian stable, and haven’t looked back since
Hah! Me too, exactly this.
Debian will have snaps and flatpaks and all the same insecure black-box drek.
Given how much they violate ISO27002, I can’t see them ever being run in a regs-compliant shop.
I feel like snaps are black boxier tho.
Yeah it’s not really a secret
Solve the problem. Drop ubunutu
Or you can just remove snap. I have been running a up-to-date snap-free ubuntu for 2 years
And pin other repos so Ubuntu doesn’t replace it. And change the apt.conf rules that alias out apt install commands for the snap install equivalent. And whatever the countermeasure is for the next sneaky ploy they put into action.
I like my operating system to work for me not against me. So no. I’ll just never use their shitty spin of Linux and rely on someone that makes a quality distro. Not one that forced it’s users to use their pile of shit proprietary nonsense.
Not secretly, no.
But it’s not obvious either. When I say ‘apt install firefox’, specially after adding their repository to sources.list, I’d expect to get a .deb from mozilla. Silently overriding my commands rubs me in a very wrong way.
Since when this became a known thing? I’m aware that the snap version is installed when the user is trying to install the deb version of Firefox by running,
sudo apt install firefoxBut I never heard that the installed DEB version of Firefox is replaced by Snap version of Firefox.
The deb version is a pointer to the snap in their repos. Nothings being replaced, it no longer exists. The deb version of Firefox in Ubuntu repos is a wrapper that installs snap and has no binaries in it. Has been for 3 years or so.
It’s more than that. Ubuntu copies the Debian repos and then applies their own changes on top. Debian has a native (DEB) Firefox package, so Ubuntu specifically has to remove it for every new version.
I had it happen a few times. I moved away from Kubuntu as a result.
At least a few years. I switched to Linux a year ago and that was a huge consideration for me when choosing Debian over Ubuntu.
Definitely not you, they absolutely do this with snaps and have for a while. This was the main reason I stopped using Ubuntu.
Jesus Christ this is Windows-tier insane computing behaviour from Ubuntu. Fuck Ubuntu.
I suggest Mint or straight Debian. I prefer Mint for anything graphical, Debian for headless
What benifit does Mint have over Debian for anything graphical?
I’ve just found it’s more polished right out of the box. Definitely more new-user-friendly, like Ubuntu, but with Snap gutted out.
I have been using the regular Mint (based on Ubuntu), but I’m probably going to use the Debian edition next time I install a new system
Its driver manager is better for newbies. Worse for experienced users though imo.
Why use Mint when Mx exists.
It’s a known and documented issue that Ubuntu does. They secretly install the Snap version, even if you tried to install the Deb package. This is an issue since years: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1345385/how-can-i-stop-apt-from-installing-snap-packages (posted 3 years and 7 months ago)
My problem is not like that. I’m aware that when the user runs(without adding Mozilla’s apt repository),
sudo apt install firefoxthe snap version of Firefox is installed. But I never heard that, though APT is configured to install Firefox from Mozilla’s repository, the DEB version will be uninstalled and the Snap version will be installed.
Yes, that’s the exact issue. Ubuntu does that for years. You use apt to install deb, but Ubuntu installs silently the Snap version. The article I linked was talking about that almost 4 years ago and talks about how to stop that. It’s an old issue not many are aware off.
At this point, why is anyone using Ubuntu for desktop? You have soooo many options
Yeah they’ve been doing that for a while
I suspect that what’s happened is you installed the apt version, then at some point upgraded it and there was a version in the main repo that had a higher version number and installed the snap version. If two repositories both have a package with the same name, and no other rules in place, the higher version number wins.
If that is the case, you need to pin the firefox package to the mozilla repository. You can find more details here: https://wiki.debian.org/AptConfiguration
This explains situation.
It just occured to me that if you want to use Ubuntu without snap, you could uninstall the snap package itself (I’m not on Ubuntu, so you might need to find it), then put a ‘hold’ on the package to prevent it being reinstalled. That should, in turn, prevent any package versions that use snap from being installed.
Initially uninstalling snap might require removing any packages that use it, but that’ll tell you what you need non-snap versions of.
This is why i switched to Debian. It’s 99% of Ubuntu, without the crap.
I… I… I don’t know why I haven’t done that myself. (Am now on NixOS btw) but for work maybe I ask for Debian cloud box.
For work, you could also try Fedora Workstation or Linux Mint Debian Edition. Debian is pretty barebones, but if that isnt a bother then do whatever.
It’s not barebones. I use it as my main desktop and barely notice any difference from Ubuntu, it has every package I’ve ever needed. I think that mentality of Debian being “bare” is outdated.
@beeng@discuss.tchncs.de this is for you, too.
I had a friend jump ship from Windows and they said that Debian felt barebones. I personally dont have any problem with it, I use it all the time for VMs, server, and I used to main it. I still think it is missing a lot of user-friendly small things that i never noticed on my own because I am very comfortable with Linux.
They do install less by default, but I’d love to pick their brain to understand what they meant. Oh well ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Linux just isnt transparent about some things. Beginners most have problems when they use a GUI tool and then have to still edit a file. Like dirt example, adding a new drive using GUI disk utility and then sometime in the future disconnecting the drive and being forced into emergency mode.
Uhh, that’s a thing in any modern distro? I plug and unplug SATA drives all the time.
I’d suggest the KDE flavor of Debian, then. Its settings manager is divine, and its software management platform ties every other package management system in (apt/dpkg for Debian, yum for Redhat, pacman for Arch, plus flatpak, nixpkg, and even snaps if you absolutely must). By default starting in Plasma 6.0.
More to @fmstrat’s point, and to suggest a possible cause your friend had that impression: if you install the Minimal flavor of any distro, you’re going to get a minimal experience.
I like gnome, but i guess i could look at fedora.
I would like to stay with apt as package manager so the package names stay the same to what I know, or is yum/dnf/etc gonna use the same for most?
Mostly the same, and if not all it has taken for me to figure it out was searching “fedora $pkgname”
You can get Gnome on Fedora. It won’t have Apt.
Packages will have a different naming scheme based on the maintainers’ preferences, even between Debian and Ubuntu (though those are usually pretty minor).
Your muscle memory is gonna trip you up for a while though.