I have a high IQ as well as ADHD and Autism.
Out of context, scoring as high as I did really meant next to nothing. In the context of the diagnoses I received later in life, definitely made sense, and helped color a picture painted in two solid days with a psychologist.
Somehow, I think it’s important that the IQ test I took was not called an IQ test to me until after. Like, I knew I was in for tests, but more broadly told what things were about.
As a student, I had a science teacher who had been teaching many years, tell my mother he had never seen a student think in the manner I did. I was doing exceptionally well in class, but did not exceed in the fashion that would get me into an ivy league school, which at the time was supposed to be a goal. My father graduated MIT.
There are times when it’s great. When I can focus on something, I can learn a lot and get very good at it. However, I spent decades with two obstacles I could never get myself past: the inability to keep that focus or control it, and the inability to even understand other people enough to try to get along with them long-term.
The result is I am just now, at 41, starting to figure out what I want to do with my life after way too long in a profession I should never have entered, and burned out of twice. And by burn out I do not mean tired and sad, I mean hospitalization.
In summary, it can be pretty great, but in my case it’s fraught with difficulty as well.
Thanks for your response.
It’s interesting to see your story in relation to other stories I’ve heard or people I’ve met.
Before I describe them, it’s important to say that you don’t strike me as unkind. I wouldn’t want you to compare yourself to the people I’ll mention and conclude that you’re somehow bad. I’m taking the time to say this because I don’t know if the difficulties you’ve mentioned are a sore spot.
Alright. The people I’ve met. I’ve met people whose identity was tied to their IQ and it became painful for me to wonder what I meant to them. For sure I was not close to their IQ; they needed to take multiple tests because they were off the charts. But I always wondered if they liked me as a person, based on my values and how I did things.
I’ve also met very relaxed and kind people who went on to study at the schools that were supposed to be a goal, people who made me realize it’s possible to be wicked smart and simultaneously kind.
When you mention that it was important that you weren’t told that the test you took was an IQ test, I think about teenage me. Back then, I learned that people could judge me based on my IQ. I made the mistake of reading white supremacist bigotry, and read that they evaluated whether people were worthy of living based on things like IQ. I knew the whole white supremacy discourse was pseudoscience and bigotry, but I was scared of bigots in power evaluating my existence. I became terrified. I became very distrustful of people who I should’ve trusted, wonderful people who would’ve never had such narrow and mistaken views. That has changed, now that I have a clearer sense of self and more perspective. But I can’t help but wonder what would’ve happened if I wouldn’t have mistrusted wonderful people. I guess the discourse around IQ can really change the way you look at the world and what you do.
Is it too nosy to ask a couple of follow up questions? If not, here they are: you mentioned ADHD and the obstacle you could never get yourself past, the inability to keep your focus and control it. Is the diagnosis recent? Could medication help? Could any treatment help with the ADHD? As to difficulties understanding other people, do you know about relational frame theory, the self component of ACT, and the PEAK and AIM programs?
As far as medication, I have not decided yet. This is all recent, within the last year. Therapy has been helping a lot for my current state, but ADHD isn’t the focus. Recovering from burnout is.
I haven’t looked into anything you’ve mentioned.
I have been described as, and willing describe myself as, a good person with a capacity for kindness. I am not nice in much of what that means.
I think my political stances sometimes highlight that. I will willingly punch nazis given the chance. No, that’s not hyperbole. I have no tolerance for bigotry. I lost a good friend who became a cop, and then said some questionable but not outright hateful things in the aftermath of George Floyd’s murder.
A flawed but not altogether useless analogy is I am not the guy who waves someone on at a stop sign when it is that person who is supposed to yield. I have no patience for it, nor do I have patience for it happening the other way around.
When I recognized that a now good friend wasn’t so harsh to me out of spite or hate but out of personal struggle, I wanted to know more, and now we not only became good friends, but we are to each other among the very few people we talk openly with about therapy and how it’s really going. We both understand and respect the need to break down the stigma of seeking help with mental health. We had both peered into the void.
But in public, I wind up ignoring a lot of people simply from wearing headphones and wanting nothing to do with any of it.
“How does this (dress, shirt, whatever) look on me?” My wife gets the truth, like it or not.
I could go on, and am willing to try to answer any questions.
Episodes of Rick and Morty really hit close to home in a way that normies couldn’t possibly fathom. It’s a blessing and a curse.
Genuine curiosity: I’ve seen piles of “my superior intellect” and “normies would never understand”, so I wanted to ask if your answer was sarcastic. If it isn’t, are you saying that you identify with Rick? Or something different?
I was being sarcastic, lol. It’s a play on the “you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty” gag.
I’m neither a Rick nor a Morty, but I think you can look at the biographies of historical figures who’ve been considered “geniuses” and deduce that R&M isn’t too far off base. It may be a sort of survivor bias: it may be that only genius and successful people have had difficulties; or, maybe idiots have just as much depression only they don’t get famous. All we have are examples like DJT for the dumb-but-successful-and-not-struggling-with-depression category.
I really should have a statistic to back this up, but it seems common for “high IQ” people to have issues. My personnel theory is that we’re all on the spectrum: that humans have a band in which we can function normally, socially, but the higher you climb on the “intelligence” scale, the more you edge into what we’d diagnose as autism and start to struggle with issues resulting from either being unable to integrate with society, or being persecuted by it.
I have absolutely no evidence for this theory, of course. It’s just a theory formed after reading biographies of so many notable geniuses who’ve struggled with drug abuse and depression. Depression is the big one; it must get awfully tiresome being surrounded by (relative) idiots.
I don’t take the theory very seriously; however, among my high school close friend group, the unquestioned smartest one, who went on to get a doctorate in math, checked himself out with a shotgun in his early 30’s. He’s the only suicide we’ve had, and I’ve often wondered how much his intelligence factored into it.
Finally, I’ll end with this quote I one read, for which I can no longer find a source and which I have no reason for believing is based at all on any evidence; but which I’ve always found funny:
Philosophers look outside themselves for truth.
Mathematicians look inside themselves for truth.
Psychologists say philosophers tend to be more happy than mathematicians.The topics of the show tend to deal with fairly high level concepts. Mixed in the chaos of interpersonal relationships.
The show to me has been a more twisted version of the superman paradox. A god living amongst mortals.
What is considered high? I have an above average intelligence, but I also have ADHD.
I have a fantastic memory, but I can’t always choose what I remember. I’m great at facts and trivia but I can’t remember things that are actually important in my life.
I didn’t have to study in school. I could glance over the material minutes before a test and pass without trying. Then, I got to college and I didn’t know how to study as I’d never done that before. I failed out.
Same here.
I learned to read at 3, and taught myself English before starting in school by reading all the text I came across on my Amiga, recognizing words that were similar to the Danish ones and slowly picking up more and more.
I also got a My Little Professor at 3, a reverse calculator that gave problems to solve. My mom taught me addition, subtraction and multiplication, and my mothers “subtraction is the opposite of addition” was enough for me to figure division out. I did the hardest problems in all four categories in my head, with numbers with up to 4 digits, before starting in school too.
I never did homework in school, only things that had to be turned in. I always had my hand up in class, because my innate curiosity and mental capacity meant that I could figure things out as the questions were written on the blackboard. The lax attitude stuck. *Edit: It wasn’t because I didn’t try to get things that required more work from me. I always asked for harder problems when doing work in class, because I always finished the problems we were given to do while in class and finish as homework before the class was done.
My biggest problem growing up was bullying. I didn’t share interests with hardly any of my classmates, since I was at least 3 years ahead of them in my mental development. My best friend was 10 years old when I was 7, and he and I played Magic together because his classmates couldn’t figure it out. My glasses, small stature, and the fact that I changed schools twice didn’t help.
You don’t feel smart, but everyone else appears extremely dumb
I think it would be hard to isolate exactly how much of our daily lives we experience as a direct consequence of our IQ and how much is a consequence of other things such as personality, emotional predisposition, environment, and luck.
My IQ is pretty average (around 115 I think? I tested ages ago and I can’t even say the test was reliable). Some people insist I must be somewhat higher than that but I don’t know. I feel dumber every day.
My father though, he does have a higher IQ (I think 135 iirc) and it’s obvious to anyone that he’s a brains guy. Always top student in his youth and later a decent researcher, engineer and programmer. And yet he still makes dumb mistakes like everyone else, and his temper and personality will often turn a mediocre day into a bad one. He has a tendency to overcomplicate things unnecessarily, and sets high standards for others around him- you’d think being smarter would mean he wouldn’t do this, but as I said, intelligence doesn’t work isolated. I remember asking him how it feels like being smarter than most of his peers and his answer is always “bah!”.
So I don’t know if this answers your question, but there’s my two cents for you.
So I don’t know if this answers your question, but there’s my two cents for you.
It does! This is precisely the kind of stuff that I’m interested in! I agree with you, in that it’s possible to think wrong thoughts even with a higher IQ. I see IQ as the speed of thought, and you can very quickly arrive at wrong conclusions. Similarly, if there’s a thought that your skill tree hasn’t unlocked, then you’re left with thoughts that are maybe not ideal for a particular situation, thoughts that could make someone “overcomplicate things unnecessarily” or “make dumb mistakes”, as your dad or anyone on planet Earth would.
I think it’s especially hard to isolate IQ when there are many thoughts or behaviors that we don’t typically associate with high IQ. “Ah yes, the violin is a sensible instrument for a learned man” or whatever people may think. That’s partly why I asked my question. If someone leads a life not typically associated with a high IQ and yet have a high enough IQ that manifested in their life, how did that look like? Of course, I’m not looking for wild stories. I’m looking for genuine stories, and I’m glad that I got an interesting answers like yours!
115 is not “average” lmao
By definition, it is. 85-115 is the 1 standard deviation range for IQ and encompasses ⅔ of the population (roughly). So, 115 is “average” or “high average”.
115-130 is above average, while 70-85 is below average (“mild intellectual delay” used to be the term I think? Not sure if that’s still current). 145+ was “genius” and 160+ was “super genius”, back in the day; I assume those terms aren’t used anymore, but I haven’t looked into it. IIRC, about 97% of the population is 70-130 IQ.
My brother is a “genius”; I am not. (I was never told my exact score on the IQ test found for me as a child, but I know the range, and in both our cases came from a psychologist).
I’m more “successful” by most standard measures of success, but that might have more to do with his (undiagnosed and unsupported) autism than his IQ. (Career , house, family, etc.) In math, for example, he could get 100s without effort, until university. I could get 100s with significant but not extreme effort, or coast and get 80s-90s until university. We both got top scores on math contests at the local (academic) school level.
I don’t really think IQ is very valuable for having a “good” life. Emotional regulation, introspection, mindfulness, and other soft skills are more important, imho, and I’m actively working on trying to build more capacity in those areas, and they’re leading to more success for me than my speed at learning a narrow subset of things (what IQ measures).
I’m dealing with a lot of harm from how constantly being labeled “smart” was damaging for me, paired with my at-the-time undiagnosed ADHD. I struggle with a lot of imposter syndrome, need for external validation, and oscillating sense of self worth.
TL;DR: “Emotional intelligence” trumps IQ for life skills and general happiness, equanimity, and “success”.
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You get to impress the worst people in the world by giving them a number which generally indicates the quality of your education. Other than that, it’s pretty useless.
If you believe psychology and IQ are nonsense, here’s a comment I copied over from another thread:
IQ means intelligence quotient. A bunch of people take a test and they’re compared to each other. Your result is your intelligence quotient.
Its origins were noble, because it was designed to identify students who needed extra help in school. The creator of the test knew that people could change their results with good instruction.
However, that noble origin story was besmirched by what happened later. Eventually, IQ tests were used as a way to classify people in more brutal and rigid ways. The USA military used it as a cutoff for aspiring cadets. USA colleges use tests that effectively are IQ tests to let people in or not. The worst part is that bigots around the world injected pseudoscience into IQ and used it to decide who they think are worthy of life and who aren’t. It’s as awful as it sounds.
You may notice that helping struggling students sounds wonderful, and you may think that we should go back to that.
However, some people are deeply marked by the dark history of IQ. They have developed beliefs that protect them from the dangers of bigotry and IQ reductionism. They believe that tests aren’t useful at all to tell us something about anything. They believe IQ tests should be banished and never used.
Other people believe IQ tests are a snapshot of how a person answered the questions to a test in a given day. Take the same test days, months, or years after a great education, and the result will be higher. Additionally, these people notice that, in research, IQ scores are robustly associated with other things, such as quality of relationships, happiness, income, and other measures. They contend that learning about the world, about ourselves, and how to think critically and solve problems has massive domino effects in peoples’ lives. Once again, these people believe that a test result one day doesn’t doom you for life and doesn’t define you. A bad test result shows the gap that a good education would fill. These people know that a good education makes the mind curious, nimble, and open.
As a maths person, I have scored high on IQ tests for years. There are plenty of topics I am not great at, but IQ tests typically focus maths topics like pattern recognition.
I like the acknowledgement of racism in IQ tests. There is a bias in the test for western maths education. Sadly, the results could be used for eugenics. Many great mathematicians I have met are neurodivergent, LGBTIA+, cis-women or other groups the eugenics crowd want culled.
My current politicical perpspective frames this as enforcement of heirarchy, legitimized “scientifically” by the IQ test. There are plenty of high IQ people, such as those in maths, that do not fit the eugenic vision. The heirarchy becomes self-fulfilling and “natural” by culling the non-comforming people. The “top” of the heirarchy must legitimize their position, so the bottom doesn’t resist doing all the work for little personal benefit.
IQ tests measure something. Don’t use that measurement to justify heirarchy. Eugenics is bad. A better future, built from the bottom, is possible. All power to all people.
In my perspective IQ only has so many consequences, due to the limitations of the method. Nowadays we know to separate different forms of intelligence and also that transferring skills between those forms can have an impact on overall ‘performance’ . That being said, it can be a good indicator for stuff but as you point out, it’s often misused as divider instead of an accelerator.
I had my IQ tested when I was 12 and it was high, but alas, not high enough to understand Rick and Morty
Jokes aside, I’ve been told that I catch onto things quicker and I’m good at solving things in creative ways!
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that’s one thing my mom did for me that I appreciate. When they asked her if she wanted me to skip grades she said no.
It’s very tiring having to start off every conversation by letting people know that I’m more intelligent than them, but it is necessary.
I just laminated a bunch of cards that say Wile E. Coyote; Super Genius and hand them out. Saves time.
E: ducking autocorrupt
Lonely isn’t the right word, because I’m not upset about not having a large group of people I consider myself close to. It’s somewhat disappointing that I can’t deeply relate to more people, though. I’d like to meet more likeminded folks, but I’m also less and less willing to tolerate draining relationships as I get older. Being particular about where you invest your time and energy tends to be socially limiting.
I’m 128, it’s up to you to decide whether it’s high enough or not.
Generally, I am successful in my studies and pursue career in science. I am not a high earner, and doing mental work still drains me heavily. I take a few hours of dumb physical work every week to reset. I am more or less satisfied with my life, I do have a romantic partner and generally find it easy to navigate social situations, but I’m introverted and need to recharge. So, you can say I have a high burst productivity all-round, but I’m not good at a long game.
This is just me though, and one thing to remember is that there is no objective metric for intelligence, and it can be divided in many different ways. Some people are great at solving math problems, but are dead stupid in social situations. Some go vice versa. Some have a gift for certain areas of knowledge or skills where they are way above average, while having underwhelming performance with the rest.
For example, I excel at disciplines that require me to connect many diverse data points (my area of interest is microbiology), but I’m not that good at following logic through many layers of calculations and linking it back to source (as in physics/math; I’m still able to carry out calculations I need for my work, but it’s exhausting). I acquire language skills quite readily, and have good auditory perception overall, but have high reaction time and struggle driving or doing competitive sports/gaming (no, higher intelligence doesn’t mean faster reaction).
Overall, I’m just a normal human, fairly smart, fairly capable, but nothing supernatural and sometimes straight up underwhelming.
It vastly depends on everything else.
You can be a dude with a normal life, who just makes conclusions faster and you’ve learned that everyone likes how smart you are and you enjoy this.
You can be a restless mess, because you’ve known all your life that there’s nothing to compete with and it’s difficult enough to find someone to even have a somewhat decent conversation on your level with. These people come with or without the arrogance you’re thinking of right now. Some are just genuinely kind and thoughtful, but always a step ahead without even really appreciating their ability much.
You can be an absolute underachiever, because being smart was never rewarded in your life. Maybe you even learned that “You’re not special” so much so, that you punished others for not being able to draw the same conclusions as you in the same time, because you always thought they were just being lazy on purpose.
You can be entirely unaware and may say funny things like “I don’t think we’re all that many really smart people in $techplacewithclearlysmartpeople. I talked to most of them and I don’t struggle at all”.
Source: High IQ myself, working with other people who increasingly talk to me openly about this and their overall situation. So much of who we become is about what our parents do to us and if there’s understanding and love and support on that end.
Obviously there’s the whole spectrum thing as well. I don’t think a higher IQ means “more autism”, as someone suggested. I think it increases your chances of struggling with a regular (neurotypical) kind of life, for example because you are supposed to be interested in 1 subject (to make a career), but - similar to people with ADHD - may care for all the subjects.
If you think about what is neurotypical though, you can classify people with a particularly high IQ or people with particularly high sensitivity as neurodiverse in just the same way you do that for people with Autism or ADHD. Now if you think about humanity as a whole, we may all to some degree be diverging from the norm in any or all of these ways, but still be more or less free of struggle, because it’s not by much, while for the more extreme cases, they stand out for better or worse.
