• Olgratin_Magmatoe ( Olgratin_Magmatoe@slrpnk.net ) 
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    1 year ago

    This is absolutely a major contributing factor, but there’s more to it than this. Everybody is lonely, pretty much regardless of gender. This issue hurts everyone.

    And it is also caused in part because of how fucked up we’ve designed our society. It’s nearly impossible to make friends as an adult because

    • we’re all working too much to have the free time for it
    • there are (effectively) no third places where you can hang out with the expectation to meet people without the expectation of spending money
    • to get anywhere you generally need a car, highways and roads divide and spread everything which makes walking or biking difficult
    • social media is run for profit, not for the sake of actually connecting people
    • these above issues feed into the issue OP is pointing out. If you are lonely and your life isn’t going too well, then you’re gonna seek answers for this complicated issue. And fascists are all too willing to take advantage and provide simple answers. It then turns into a self feeding cycle.

    I’m sure there’s a bunch of other reasons too, but those are the ones of the top of my sleep deprived head. Even if all the above awful values men have disappeared, the above problems would still need to be fixed.

    • Nat (she/they) ( zea_64@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) 
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      1 year ago

      Most of the people repeating the keywords “male loneliness epidemic” are, but that doesn’t mean you automatically are. You’re probably suffering from the same loneliness people of all genders are.

      • Soulg ( Soulg@ani.social ) 
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        1 year ago

        Even if a lot of the people spamming that phrase are bad it doesn’t mean that it’s not a real thing that affects other non bad people. They’re co-opting real problems to further their agendas.

        • djsoren19 ( djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) 
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          1 year ago

          To take this one step further: shitty memes like this one are used to essentially validate the feelings of the bad actors and the “manosphere.” Especially when the non-bad people try to push back and get the response of “yes, all men,” it just reinforces their stance of “people hate men” and pushes them deeper into the validation loops that the manosphere provides to them.

    • nanoswarm9k ( nanoswarm9k@lemmus.org ) 
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      1 year ago

      I have all my girlfriends on stream rn, ok so, Canonical_Warlock, so tell us, what have you done to further equity and resist fascism? Last six months is fine if you’re busy. But we really want to hear about the community organizations you’re interested in or working with. We’re listening and ready to fawn and cheer. ٩(◕‿◕。)۶

      Also open to any advice for people who might be basing their esteem on meme stream concerning more nourishing options!

      (i am neither sarcastic nor a cop, but the latter can still read replies, so maybe… semirhetorical.)

  • The fascists go for a predatory numbers game, hitting up as many women as possible while hoping they find ones vulnerable enough to get roped into an abusive relationship. It’s a strategy that breaks down against women who socially reinforce self respect amongst each other. Of course, this isn’t unique, as fascism similarly recruits vulnerable men who struggle with self respect. It’s abuse and cruelty all the way down.

    • sudneo ( sudneo@lemm.ee ) 
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      1 year ago

      There are plenty of women in far right/neo-fascist etc. groups, and often people from those groups have relationships with other people from those groups. Your comment gives very much the impression that only males are fascists, which is absolutely not my experience dealing with Forza Nuova/Casapound people (both neo-fascists parties) in my youth.

      I also see the male loneliness epidemic as an orthogonal problem to males being fascists, but that’s yet another topic.

      • tigeruppercut ( tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip ) 
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        1 year ago

        There are plenty of women in far right/neo-fascist etc. groups

        There are plenty of the populist Mango Mussolini type fascist women, but AFAIK there are far fewer in the out and proud neo-nazi groups. There’s this interview from this guy who was a neo-nazi until the mid-90s, and he talks about how the complaints from the incels now are the same as back when he was in. There were women in the group, but at a ratio of 7 or 8 to 1.

        https://youtu.be/d-g3Z8IWsdU?t=871

        • sudneo ( sudneo@lemm.ee ) 
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          1 year ago

          Yes, I am quite sure that in most countries the distribution of women/men within those groups are not equal and unbalanced towards men.

          That said, being a member of the actual group doesn’t mean not being in those people social groups, accepting or even sharing some of their ideas etc.

  • trungulox ( trungulox@lemm.ee ) 
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    1 year ago

    So. Counterpoint to this, in that I think those guys should just keep doing what they’re doing.

    The bar is so low all I need to do is show up on a date and not say anything racist and I’m in.

    In fact: y’all should go even harder with the douchebaggery.

      • trungulox ( trungulox@lemm.ee ) 
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        1 year ago

        There’s actual science on this that says women will get turned on by pretty much anything as long as they feel safe.

        So like. The barest amount of cognizance of the objective danger women face, like, constantly, and a respectful effort to show by example that you’re not part of it (which doesn’t mean saying it, like: first off I swear I’m not going to rape you isn’t going to make anyone swoon) and you’re in.

        I wish more people understood that the enemy way to make people think you’re a good person is to just be a good fucking person.

  • Manticore ( Manticore@lemmy.nz ) 
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    1 year ago

    Every time I see this meme format I’m a little frustrated and sad.

    A long time ago, Cosmo did a bunch of studies on dating app users. It published a bunch of their results and people have been miscounting it ever since to serve their assumptions.

    On dating apps, when one woman matches with one man, 90% of women match with 10% of men. This is largely a result of the app populations, which were and are mostly men. Unless you’re okay with your girl dating ~9 men at once, dating apps will only match a small percentage of men, because that’s how maths works.

    When asked to judge dating app profile pictures (no other profile information), women judged men’s pictures lower than men judged women’s. This is as much a factor of the profile pictures we choose as anything else. In addition, men’s match preferences had a strong relationship with their attraction ranks. Whereas for women the relationship was weaker, and the content of the profile was a larger deciding factor. But people hear about the judging profile photos thing and go ‘women are more critical of appearance than men are -> women are shallow’.

    When asked ‘what age are [men/women] most atteactive’, women tended to answer close to their own age (with a drop off around 50). Most men said 20-25. But most men saying still typically matched close to their own age. Much like the women with profile pictures, they were trying to answer a direct question with what they believed was a critical, scientific, ‘objective’ answer, rather than reflecting their own dating preferences. But now women fear (or believe) that any men will not find them attractive as they age.

    There’s a lot of interesting things in those findings, if you acknowledge it is specifically measuring dating app users, had nuanced findings, and was not scientifically robust in the first place. It’s broad conclusions DO NOT apply to the population as a whole.

    And I ache a little each time I see its conclusions reduced and misused to justify misanthropy. Much like the myth of ‘the alpha wolf’, it’s misinformation that refuses to die.

    • Zenith ( Zenith@lemm.ee ) 
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      1 year ago

      Dating apps are social cancer

      Make friends with women, jumping straight to “romance” with zero friendship is like running a relationship on insane difficulty

      • Dating apps are quite horrible, but I would have never met my girlfriend without them. We are both very shy and agree that even if we had met by chance, nobody would have ever made a move.

        None of my women friends are romantically interesting to me and I’m not the kind of person who meets a lot of new people. I’m very happy with my small circle of friends and neither my job nor my hobbies expose me to new people.

        A dating app helped me to work around that. I was very lucky though and the first person I met with turned out to be the perfect match for me.

      • CMonster ( CMonster@discuss.online ) 
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        1 year ago

        I don’t agree with this. They are a stream-lined method to meet other people who are interested in making new contacts without going out of their comfort zone. I also may be biased since I met my s/o on Bumble but we are 6 years in and this is the healthiest most loving relationship I’ve ever been in. I know my experience is most likely the exception rather than the norm YMMV

        Also I don’t know how going on a few dates with someone is “jumping right to romance”

      • Manticore ( Manticore@lemmy.nz ) 
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        1 year ago

        Women also use dating apps for their own reasons, too. While its true there are a lot of socially inept men on them, I’m uncomfortable with your phrasing. It seems to be blaming men (and not women) for the apps’ existence.

        Dating apps are mostly a reflection of a society with poor options for socialising organically. They’re trying to get people connected in a world that makes organic meeting places increasingly expensive or rare, or work hours that are particularly long and limit our energy and free time.

        The world is also increasingly hostile to the ‘cold approach’. Dating apps are environments where men know they are allowed to interact with women, snd both can easily disengage from bad matches.That’s especially crucial for the more gentle men that don’t want to make women uncomfortable in the first place, since they would likely never cold approach, or feel uncomfortable admitting interest to their friends and acquaintances.

        • That last paragraph speaks true to me. I’m not the kind of person to make a move. But with online dating, there is always romantic context.

          “I’ve been seeing this person from the dating app for a few weeks now and I’m really attracted, we always have a great time, maybe I should ask if they’d like to kiss” is a lot easier than initiating intimacy without that context.

  • frankpsy ( frankpsy@lemm.ee ) 
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    1 year ago

    I really feel like this is an idea that needs to die. Plenty of abusive and hateful men seem to have no problems with getting the type of relationships they want; this just inadvertently promotes the idea that one needs to be a ‘nice guy’ in order to have a relationship. Not every guy who leans left succeeds in wooing a woman, and right wingers complaining about where the women are at are probably in circles with primarily left-leaning women and they need to go look in a church or country concert or something.

    • Yeah, i even suspect that what makes men turn a bit more to the right with age is the realization that it’s more likely to find a woman-partner this way.

      I.e., adapting “work hard” way of thinking to earn more money, because women are ultimately also largely attracted to wealth.

    • AHuman2 ( AHuman2@lemm.ee ) 
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      1 year ago

      This post is such a stupid take on a very complex issue. Most of the problem is related to economic-socio problem. If everyone can get a $100k/year job that solves a whole bunch of problems in itself. It’s hard to convince someone to date if we are only earning like 25k/year. Some women are going no thanks I will take a chance with an old guy who maybe divorced but seems financially settled. Then comes introverts/anxiety problems, etc. these dudes have a hard time even approaching women because they may get humiliated. Then comes looks, only around 30-40% people are tall enough and good looking enough to get chosen with no effort instantly.

      Add all these and we have like 55% dudes below the age of 30 with no partner.

  • People forget that women can have like, ultraspecific preferences. Women above a certain age tend to be married, the rest not interested in relationships at all. Then there’s the Lesbians having relationships with each other. This still does not account for the difficulty dating as a man. I guess most do find a partner, but it’s harder, so feels like there’s somehow less women available.