- cross-posted to:
- steam@lemmy.ml
- opensource@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- steam@lemmy.ml
- opensource@programming.dev
I do not really have a body for this. I was not aware that this is a thing and still feel like this is bs, but maybe there is an actual explanation for HDMI Forum’s decision that I am missing.
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I really hope we’ll see TVs with DisplayPort one day.
I think I’d like DisplayPort over a USB-C connector. It seems like this might be an easier sell too, since the general non-techy populace is already used to everything going to USB-C (thanks EU). Maybe one day we can actually just use the same cable for everything. I realize that not all USB-C cables are equal, but maybe if TVs used USB-C, we’d see more cables supporting power, data, and video.
I mentioned this in another thread but “DP Alt” (DP over USB-C) is not a default feature of the USB spec and is an optional extension that needs to be added via additional hardware and supported by the device. At that point you’re basically adding in DP with just a different port.
To that end, it’s still the same thing that TV manufacturers just aren’t adding in DP support regardless of connector.
My monitor (tv) supports usb c and I like it! The flexibility was nice during my single battle station move
Why even buy 'em, tho? They’re basically shitty monitors with spyware for brains.
Well if you want anything over 35 inches a TV is your only option. They don’t really make monitors bigger than that.
well its not the only option, its the only consumer ended option.
the corporate option is large format display/digital signage screens
If you actually give a fuck about image quality beyond size and brightness, digital signage also isn’t really an option. You won’t find many commercial oled displays, for example.
Best option for home entertainment, imo, is still a consumer TV, that you just never connect to the internet and use a set top box with, instead.Assuming they don’t start using meshnet to spy on you anyways.
Up The (soldering) Irons!
Don’t give them any ideas
That’s actually already a thing potentially, TV and even appliance makers have been fielding using meshnet tech to spy on users regardless of if they’re connected to the web or not for a while now.
of course, I’m not suggesting anyone should use them. im just saying they exist. the companies that make the good screens are all part of the HDMI forum, which defeats the reason why display port wont be offered at these screen sizes effectively.
basically no comoany is going to deny using HDMI unlrss a new upcoming screen company either develops propietary displayport tech, or the VESA foundation spins up monitor production.
unironically the only company i can remotely see doing said action is apple.
It’s a ‘why not both’ thing.
We need a good jailbreak for smart TVs and a TV-oriented Linux distro with Plasma Bigscreen to install on the jailbroken smart TVs
My experience is that digital signage displays are still HDMI-only.
many are hdmi only, but there are several that have display port as well. I see a lot since I work in lease return/e-waste recycling.
Projectors have improved dramatically over the years. Any white wall can easily become a 100+inch display that’s good enough for movies.
Are there a lot of 65" PC monitors?
Not that many it seems… Ignoring extremely pricey ones, I could find the Lenovo ThinkVision E65 LFD for what converts to 1200 USD in a local shop. And even that is not really price competitive.
Just don’t connect it to the internet.
There are a few. Samsung, hi sense and lg have them on some
Digital signage
Unaffordable to a consumer.
Bullshit they’re all over ebay for reasonable prices
They are exist but it Chinese dark horses manufacturera liki kiwi
but maybe there is an actual explanation for HDMI Forum’s decision that I am missing.
Licensing money.
Which could be paid by Valve in this case, especially since no one is expecting the Steam Box thing to be cheap.
If it ever gets open sourced, anybody will just use it without paying.
AMD should remove the HDMI port from all of their GPUs as a nice F.U. to the HDMI forum. They shouldn’t be paying the licensing fees if they are not allowed to make full use of the hardware.
That’d be suicide.
For now, but DP and specially DP over USB-C is becoming gradually more popular for computer hardware, someone paying 400 euros for a GPU doesn’t mind paying 10 bucks extra on an adapter if they have an HDMI monitor. But most monitors nowadays come with DP anyway.
HDMI adapter memory dimm card! That’s $45.99 all day long.
maybe there is an actual explanation for HDMI Forum’s decision that I am missing.
HDMI has never been an open standard (to the best of my understanding anyway). You’ve always needed to be an adopter or a member of HDMI forum to get the latest (or future) specs. So it’s not like they’ve just rejected a new idea. The rejection is fully consistent with their entire history of keeping the latest versions on lockdown.
Standards organizations like HDMI Forum look like a monolith from the outside (like “they should explain their thinking here”) but really they are loosely coupled amalgamations of hundreds of companies, all of whom are working hard to make sure that (a) their patents are (and remain) essential, and that (b) nothing mandatory in a new version of the standard threatens their business. Think of it more like the UN General Assembly than a unified group of participants. Their likely isn’t a unified thinking other than that many Forum members are also participants in the patent licensing pool, so giving away something for which they collect royalties is just not a normal thought. Like… they’re not gonna give something away without getting something in return.
I was a member of HDMI Forum for a brief while. Standards bodies like tihs are a bit of a weird world where motivations are often quite opaque.
HDMI has never been an open standard (to the best of my understanding anyway). You’ve always needed to be an adopter or a member of HDMI forum to get the latest (or future) specs. So it’s not like they’ve just rejected a new idea.
Okay not publishing the spec is still the same, but something else is new nonetheless.
AMD is an adopter*, they have the spec and they implemented a driver for 2.1 intended to be open sourced in Linux. But they were still blocked from publishing it. For HDMI 1.4 that wasn’t an issue yet from what I’ve found (though it’s always hard to search for non-existence). Open source implementations of HDMI 1.4, even in hardware description languages, seem to exist.
*you can search for “ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES” here to confirm for yourself
I may have misread or misunderstood the article, but it seemed as though Steam wanted to open source their 2.1 implementation, which would effectively publish the 2.1 specification. I’m pretty sure their agreements with HDMI Forum and HDMI.org prohibit that.
Translation: Nothing’s happening until someone needs to get bribed.
/s
Thanks for sharing these insights.
You want companies to stop supporting and using your shitty standard? Because that is how you get customers ntonstop using your standard and by extension, your companies
If you want change you got to direct your comments to the HDMI forum. Here we can talk about it forever and if they never see anything they won’t change. I sent the following email to: admin@hdmiforum.org
Dear HDMI Forum,
I was recently saw the news that the HDMI forum was blocking open source implementations of the HDMI 2.1 specifications and I want to express that I really believe this is a bad idea. I hope the HDMI Forum will consider allowing it. I can’t say I understand what the concern is or the reason for blocking it but I really doubt that whatever issue is envisioned will actually come to fruition, instead I believe that allowing open source implementations will be beneficial for adoption of the standard and since if I understand correctly the licensing fees are based on hardware sold so having open source code will of course not exempt anyone from HDMI licensing rules.
Thank you so much for your consideration,
(Name)
Maybe it’s not perfect (I already wished I worded one sentence better) but I think what matters most is just trying your best and using your voice whenever you can. Be sure to send your email too, the more they receive hopefully the higher the chances that this works but of course be sure to use your own wording, I just put that here for an example.
I’m at the point where I think it would be easier to switch to display port
I can’t find TVs with display port, probably because of “big HDMI”. :(
Fuck you HDMI Forum
Be a damn shame if someone leaked the driver.
Or even better, drop HDMI support in favor of displayport
I’m wondering if Valve might just include a DP to HDMI cable for the Steam Machine - since it includes DP.
Not sure it’s economically viable for device makers to drop HDMI altogether since TVs will never do that
HDMI -> DP might be viable, since DP is ‘simpler’.
Supporting HDMI means supporting a whole pile of bullshit, however - lots of handshakes. The ‘HDMI splitters’ that you can get on eg. Alibaba (which also defeat HDCP) are active, powered things, and tend to get a bit expensive for high resolution / refresh.
Steam Machine is already been closely inspected for price. Adding a fifty dollar dongle into the package is probably out of the question, especially a ‘spec non-compliant’ one.
If they sell 2 variants of the Steam Machine, they could remove HDMI from one , and just put it in the more expensive variant, to reflect the extra headaches and cost that comes from HDMI.
That’d encourage people to get screens with DisplayPort. Many computer screens have DP.
Yes, this isn’t new but it’s resurfacing thanks to the Steam Machine. Basically (off my memory), part of your title is accurate: AMD did create a FOSS driver with HDMI 2.1 which does not violate HDMI forum requirements, but the HDMI forum still vetoed it. I don’t know if it would necessarily “disclose the specification” as the first part of your title suggests, but I didn’t dig into the details enough to say for certain.
Basically a dick move by HDMI. Maybe Valve can push their weight on this, we’ll see.
I quoted the link. I do not have more insights.
let’s make usb and displayport open-source drivers. seriously!
💸 (and control) is the reason.
Let’s start messing up these fuckers…
I wish we just fuck HDMI group and switch to open standard display port but we are not control of TV manufactures cause they are who crested HDMI group
this is not new, but its time for the hdmi forum to fade into irrelevance
Who makes up the HDMI Forum?
Meanwhile, at the Legion of Doom…
