Relative to the time in which each was released Trek has gotten less progressive over time. TOS was released during the height of the cold war and the civil rights movement. It had a black female bridge officer. The line of command isn’t super clear on tos but Uhura was a department head and no lower than sixth in command. It had the first interracial kiss on television between Kirk and Uhura. It had a Russian bridge officer, also no lower than sixth in command. It had an Asian bridge officer also no lower than sixth in command. Earth was presented as a Socialist utopia.
TNG didn’t really back off of that ideologically, though it didn’t do as good of a job with racial representation, but it also didn’t advance it and culture did advance between the 60s and the 90s.
DS9 pulled back on it primarily as a result of its exploration of darker themes. It creates and drives wedges into cracks in Earth’s Utopia. It has Starfleet and even the main protagonist abandon Starfleet’s ideas and principles in periods of adversity. It also started the movement away from the philosophical sci-fi that Trek thrived in before to more action oriented sci-fi.
Ultimately, imo, Janeway was a more “Starfleet” officer than Sisko. She showed more integrity and dedication to the Federation’s ideals under greater levels of hardship and personal risk. All in all Voy was not particularly more or less progressive than DS9 though.
Nutrek tries but it’s too action oriented and doesn’t really explore the themes in a meaningful way and that causes its more progressive moments to come off as less impactful and less integrated into the story. It also seems to forget that Starfleet is a quasi military organization and doesn’t always do a good job at presenting the characters as competent disciplined professionals which makes progressive decisions and moments less meaningful.
So, I agree. Trek isn’t woke enough. It should bring Roddenberry’s philosophical progressive Trek into the modern era.
I think you’re selling DS9’s progressiveness short. The federation is portrayed as less progressive, but the message of the show itself is far more progressive than the norm; if anything, it makes the federation standins for moderate/centrist/liberals and calls them out for not being left enough.
For real! I know this is a bit of a meme but it really isn’t far off. The show definitely had its problems with representation (like not letting avery brooks sport his signature bald w/ a goatee until season 3 because they were worried that a bald, black lead would be “too intimidating” or whatever) but it also had PLENTY of stuff that “shouldn’t” have been on network TV in 1993. Also lets not forget the episode where Jadzia got to meet all the past Dax symbionts and Quark got stuck with an old lady inhabiting his body for half an episode or so.
And then there’s… whatever this was.
I have to assume the people who think Star Trek is woke now also believe drag queens in the 90s represented good christian values
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Well said. The unprofessional behavior is a significant contributor to turning me off nutrek. Why the hell do the engineering and science departments in discovery behave like 20 year olds in need of therapy? How the fuck did these people pass starfleet academy at all?
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Another one who wasn’t actually paying attention to the scenario or the dialogue while criticizing the show for being ‘dumbed down’ for younger audiences.
I admit I’m losing patience.
Dudes!!! This takes place when the Academy is being recreated after Starfleet and the Federation were seen to have failed large portion of the galaxy after the Burn.
This means that this class DID NOT complete with the best and the brightest across a well connected Federation with a common base of expectations.
They passed the entrance exams but it was not the same as a stable 24th century scenario, or even the early 25th century where Picard’s son was fast tracked based on experience.
Some, like Genesis, are from multi generational Starfleet families that hung on in secret bases during a century of anarch.
Most of the rest are off their planets or out of their small cluster of planets for the first time in their or their parents’ lives.
Others are the first of their species to enter Starfleet and are there for political reasons.
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I think it’s fine if they act like highschoolers in a show for highschoolers. It just means that’s not a show that’s for me.
I can see someone else behaving like a 20 year old in need of therapy
Sadly i am a little older than that, the therapy part is accurate though.
I am however not a highly trained, best of the best, sci fi astronaut academy graduate charged with overseeing a critical element of a colossal machine designed to violate the laws of physics; so why does that matter?
I’ve seen the word “professionalism” come up in a lot of people’s complaints about nuTrek, but that concept of professional behaviour is something I just don’t value. If the people you’re working with stop respecting you because you choose to sit comfortably or let out an exuberant “fuck yeah!” when things go great, I think you’re working with the wrong people. I think only unserious and immature people would worry about that.
I’m also one of those who embraces the “scientists” view of Starfleet over the “military” view, so that might be a factor. I like to see the crew comfortable at their jobs and loving what they do.
So all of that is to say I’m 110% down with Holly Hunter letting her piggies out, and I don’t think that reflects badly on her or her gender in the least.
The word “professionalism” here a common dogwhistle for “obedience” and “conformity”. It’s use in this context is almost exclusively directed towards women, but also sometimes to black men.
When Micheal Burhnam disobeys orders it’s “unprofessional”, when Worf or Picard does it, it’s “bold”. When Ake sits down unconventionally it’s “unprofessional”, when Riker does it, it’s a quirky and beloved part of his character. etc. etc.
Yeah I’d say you hit the nail on the head. In a franchise that thought Spock saying his superiors should “go to hell” was such a great line they had Data ape it two films later, “professional” seems to be a label some characters have easier access to than others.
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If I based my esteem for things on how popular they are, I’d have never gotten into Star Trek. It was decidedly unpopular with my cohort at the time.
For what it’s worth I adore old school Trek. Just like I think it would be dumb to judge someone for being comfy or exuberant, I also wouldn’t judge someone for preferring a reserved demeanour like dear old Picard.
I also remember Geordi building model ships in engineering and running off to play with Data on the holodeck, so I don’t really see an incompatibility between the eras.
I mean, look at this scene. Is it really that far off from Tilly dropping her enthusiastic F bombs?
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Which one is curling up in a comfy chair with a good book? Crass or dumb?
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I have a friend with autism who has trouble wearing shoes, and faces social judgement for it. To Me, Chancellor Ake is representation. SFA is woke.
I guarantee that guy never once made an internet post about how Riker sits
lmao why do you care about “bad looks”? are you doing PR for chancellor ake? who the hell cares. I cannot express how weird it is to me that you care about that. Honestly I’m completely baffled as to why you care about how a fictional character who wouldn’t care about your option if she was real, but can’t care about your opinion because she’s not, presents herself.
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Shes not out of line and shes right
