[Update: I went with CachyOS instead, it looks like a great option for gaming with general usage and has a really good wiki]

A coworker of mine asked me to help him install Linux, he hasn’t tried Linux before but he’s sick of Windows.

He is very much into gaming, so gaming support is the first priority. He is also a developer/tester so I suppose that he will also want to have access to dev tools, languages, and other packages like that for personal projects.

My first go-to when recommending to newbies is Mint because it’s simple, tried and tested, but I have been hearing a lot about Bazzite lately and see that it offers a very nice gaming experience. However it scares me that there’s no typical package management like apt or pacman as I browse their docs, instead it relies heavily on Flatpaks and brew, or even podman images. Will this be a problem as he uses the OS for general usage besides gaming in the long term, would it be better to just go with Mint and set that up for gaming instead?

Feel free to also recommend other distros, but keep in mind that while he is technical, he is still completely new to this so I want things to work out perfectly for his first experience.

    • iByteABit ( iByteABit@lemmy.ml ) OP
      13·
      9 months ago

      This is usually a good idea, but I think Arch would be a bit too much for him

      Still, any Debian derivative would be just as easy for me to help and also for him to find help online, so that’s the main reason I’d choose Mint over Bazzite

      • lost_faith ( lost_faith@lemmy.ca ) 
        7·
        9 months ago

        I moved my gf to Kubuntu, all she knows is double click starts her games, open konsole - press up arrow - hit enter to start the G13 kb and every so often click that round icon with the blue dot for updates whenever she feels like it (or something stops working). Oh yeah, kernel level anti-cheat is a dead stop under linux, if he plays any of them, he needs windows so far as I know.

        I put flatpak as the default instead of snap (10 seconds), she is now as comfortable as she was under windows, I have also not needed to support her much (except for the stuff I forgot to setup). and for the love of god make sure you show your friend “TimeShift” can’t say enough how great that app is, you can break almost anything tinker to your hearts content and recover in minutes

      • jcarax ( jcarax@beehaw.org ) 
        3·
        9 months ago

        Yes, but CachyOS might not be, and while it does a bit to make things substantially easier for your friend, you’ll have a lot of familiarity with it as an Arch user.

        Source: An Arch user for 15 years who just installed CachyOS when I wanted to switch from Cosmic to KDE.

      • IratePirate ( IratePirate@feddit.org ) 
        3·
        9 months ago

        This is the correct approach, OP. Bazzite is good, but its immutability is an aspect one needs to get used to and learn to work with. Since you’re not (and I’m not saying I am ;), rather stick to something you feel comfortable supporting, because you’ll be the one they’ll come running to if they have a problem.

  • Igilq ( Igilq@szmer.info ) Polski
    13·
    9 months ago

    Definitely not bazzaite, it has lots of unremovable bloatware and since it doesn’t have native package manager it will be a problem. For gaming i propose cachyos, it focuses a lot on performance in games. They have their own proton, kernel and they even had their own browser

      • Igilq ( Igilq@szmer.info ) Polski
        4·
        9 months ago

        Using something called rpm-ostree. rpm-ostree is a hybrid image/package system. It combines libostree and libdnf to provide atomic and safe upgrades with local RPM package layering. Still that isnt real package manager since you cannot remove or install anything from fedora repo, it is only used for updates and thats all

      • Telorand ( Telorand@reddthat.com ) 
        3·
        9 months ago

        Ideally, you don’t. You can layer packages with rpm-ostree, but that’s typically something you want to do very intentionally and sparingly, not as a first resort for installing packages.

        Instead, everything is typically installed in userspace via Flatpak/AppImage or using the distrobox command to create podman containers (where you can install software using its package manager, depending on what base distro you chose for it).

        When you update, you are replacing the current system image with a new one, so if there’s a problem with the new system, you can just rpm-ostree rollback to the previous one.

        Let me know if you have other questions. I run Bazzite on a laptop daily.

        • turboSnail ( turboSnail@piefed.europe.pub ) English
          2·
          9 months ago

          Thanks for the explanation.
          I’m only vaguely aware of the concept of an atomic distribution, so there’s a lot to learn. I guess it’s about time I sacrificed my spare laptop to silverblue.

          When it comes to recommending a distribution to a newbie, I have mixed feelings about atomic distributions. If the newbie in question just wants to leave the OS alone and focus on gaming, Bazzite sounds like the best option.

          On the other hand, if the newbie wants figure out how things work, starting with an atomic distribution doesn’t really sound like the easiest starting point. Is it though? Could be mistaken.

          I think it’s pretty simple to understand if the system just pulls packages from the repos and downloads what needs to be updated. If you add flatpaks and appimages to the mix, it just adds another layer of confusion. Totally fine for your second distro though. After all, getting to experience new and interesting ways to do things is the joy of distrohopping.

          And then there’s rpm-ostree thing. I really need to read more about that, but that sounds like yet another layer in an already very tall cake. Those newbies who want to know how these things work may find an atomic distro a bit overwhelming.

          But do you really need to understand any of that to get started? Do you think it’s enough for most newbies to just install a few flatpaks to get the apps you need? Do you think they would need to involve rpm-ostree within the first year?

          • Telorand ( Telorand@reddthat.com ) 
            2·
            9 months ago

            On the other hand, if the newbie wants figure out how things work, starting with an atomic distribution doesn’t really sound like the easiest starting point. Is it though? Could be mistaken.

            This is where I would agree with you, except to clarify and say, “It depends.” There’s plenty to figure out, and there’s a lot you can learn about when it comes to understanding what layer(s) a piece of software runs in. A driven newbie could find it rewarding to figure out this new paradigm. I once read a post from someone who installed Aurora on a grandparent’s laptop, and the grandparent ran with it and learned how to use everything themselves. It’s good to know who the end user is.

            It also highlights some of the pitfalls and old practices of relying upon sudo without good reason. Lots of software only needs to run in local userspace, for example, and devs should really take into consideration what permissions they actually need, rather than choosing what’s easiest and expedient.

            And then there’s rpm-ostree thing. I really need to read more about that, but that sounds like yet another layer in an already very tall cake.

            It’s not so much another layer but dividing the existing cake into very distinct layers. You have an immutable system layer, you have an app layer for apps that you apply with rpm-ostree, and you have the user layer where your Distroboxes and Flatpaks live.

            The benefit of this structure is that you can swap out the system layer at will. In theory, you could swap from a Gnome-based system to a Niri-based one, and rather than keeping all the Gnome apps and settings, you now just have the Niri ones. This ability to swap out the system layer makes it so system updates are much safer and less prone to conflicts, and they’re much more scalable for large deployments.

            But do read more about it. There’s pros and cons to it, and then you can really get into the weeds with bootc…

            Do I think a newbie needs to know this stuff from the get go? Probably not. I think that particularly since atomic distros have been around for several years now, the Flatpak ecosystem has grown quite a bit. There’s a lot already there that will work for most people. There’s a possibility they would need to layer something within their first year (I needed Java, for example), but it’s not likely they’d need it often if at all.

            If they can’t help but tinker or theme, though, I would steer them away from atomic distros entirely. As interesting as they are, they’re geared towards duplicability, not bespoke modifications. My daily desktop driver is CachyOS, and I tinker with that, but the laptop with Bazzite is one I need to have maximum uptime.

  • orenj ( orenj@lemmy.sdf.org ) English
    11·
    9 months ago

    I’d actually recommend whatever it is that you use, OP. Having a friend who is intimately familiar with your distro is way more helpful than one that’s theoretically even better but you have limited support for. If they want to make the jump later, they can always do what I did and somehow accidentally become an arch (btw) linux guy after a year in the ecosystem (goddamnit how did this happen, i just wanted to keep using my old craptop, not become a thigh high socks guy).

    edit: I’m reading that you’re also an archfreak, so I’d suggest Manjaro instead. It’s got an easier learning curve and guis, but is arch-based.

  • rozodru ( rozodru@piefed.social ) English
    10·
    9 months ago

    I’d say Bazzite but I would warn him (and since he’s a developer already it might not be a big deal) if he’s looking to do any sort of dev work or whatever with Bazzite then prepare to utilize stuff like distrobox, flatpaks, etc to accomplish stuff like that.

    That being said as a dev and gamer myself if my first linux experience was Bazzite I might get annoyed. Mint is a great first experience. when I originally tried it well over a year ago though I did have issues with my Nvidia GPU on it and gaming wasn’t super great BUT it’s been awhile since I’ve used mint so that may have changed.

    Honestly I would suggest start with Mint and just drive it for a couple weeks. If he likes it but feel it’s limited for some things then that’s when he can expand out to different distros. And like I said maybe gaming on Mint has improved since I last used it. But if he’s comfortable with running distrobox and containers then Bazzite is fine.

    • iByteABit ( iByteABit@lemmy.ml ) OP
      4·
      9 months ago

      I’d say Bazzite but I would warn him (and since he’s a developer already it might not be a big deal) if he’s looking to do any sort of dev work or whatever with Bazzite then prepare to utilize stuff like distrobox, flatpaks, etc to accomplish stuff like that

      That’s what I figured, I would be very annoyed to have to use images for software I would simply do an apt install for in other distros, so I’ll leave out Bazzite from my options definitely

    • JustEnoughDucks ( JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl ) 
      1·
      9 months ago

      Oh yeah I was quite annoyed with bazzite initially with embedded toolchains… The default arch distrobox also runs vscode variants horribly with tons of freezing for some reason. I had to create a new arch distrobox.

      Also Saleae Logic2 has a Fedora bug where it takes between 2 and 10 minutes just to open because of logfiles and errordumping and timeouts that is very annoying.

      Also menu shortcuts for distrobox only work like for 20% of programs (luckily code-oss is one of them)

      And don’t get me started on running a VM that can see the local network…

      After you get a setup going though, then it is breezy though.

  • deczzz ( deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 
    7·
    9 months ago

    In order of ease of use; Nobara (Fedora based), popOS (Mint/Ubuntu based), cachyOS (Arch based, easy enough to use but might be overwhelming because of the amount of linux jargon going on) over bazzite, depending on your friend ability and wish to tinker around with his OS.

    I have had problems even dragging dropping files across apps in bazzite and other immutable distros like bluefin. If your friend is interested in tinkering just a little bit then he will be be banging his head across a wall with bazzite. The community support for these relatively new immutable distros is also quite bad when it comes to edge cases.

  • LordFireCrotch ( LordFireCrotch@lemmy.today ) English
    6·
    9 months ago

    Mint for the community support. He’ll have tons of resources if he runs into anything and you’re not available. As a dev he should be resourceful in that regard.

    But definitely check the kinds of games he’s playing. Modern multiplayer games will be a big hurdle if they’re not steam verified.

  • Tetsuo ( Tetsuo@jlai.lu ) 
    5·
    9 months ago

    I think Bazzite is the “easiest”. But I think it would be very difficult to tinker for someone not used to Linux. It’s the plug and play option. For me the fact that bazzite tries to be immutable is a very good plus for stability on the long run. And somehow fits well for gaming on Linux. The drawback is that these immutable distro are hard to tinker with if you dont have experience with immutable package managers and so on.

    CachyOS has maybe a more traditional structure but should offer good performance too.

    There is also Nobara and Pop OS.

    I’m on PoPOS but it’s too recent for me to give feedback for gaming. But it should work well too.

  • root ( root@aussie.zone ) English
    4·
    9 months ago

    I do not have first hand experience, but have been told that while Bazzite is excellent for gaming, the immutable nature of complicates matters when it comes to software development, dev tools and stuff of that nature.

  • Chaser ( Chaser@lemmy.zip ) 
    4·
    9 months ago

    If he’s a dev, he probably is able to follow this guide:
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Installation_guide

    The result is a system, that has virtually every package you can imagine in the aur, always the newest packages - which is quite important for gaming performance and a really slim system.

    For the gaming part I recommend Gamescope:
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Gamescope

    As desktop Plasma is a good choice for beginners. However I personally use Sway.
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/KDE#Plasma
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Sway

  • UNY0N ( UNY0N@lemmy.wtf ) 
    3·
    9 months ago

    I have been using bazzite for over a year, and I am very happy with it. It works very well for gaming, and I have had zero troublehooting outside of getting some mod managers to work.

    But immutable distros are different, in general you can’t just install GUI programs if it has no flatpak option. (for CLI stuff there are distroboxes). There are ways, but depending on what you want to do other than gaming, I would check first. Also there have been some episodes of drama among the maintainers, which makes me worry a bit about the future of the distro.

    Mint is a great distro too, and from what I hear it for sure it will work well for gaming. I’d say the main differences are:

    Bazzite:

    • immutable, so you never have a broken setup
    • lots of gaming setup done out-of-the-box
    • some package installation restrictions
    • some maintainer drama

    Mint:

    • flexible to use various methods of package installation
    • No drama (?)
    • Not immutable, so it can break if you fiddle with stuff and are careless
    • no out-of-the-box gaming setup (but it is not a giant project to setup)