99% companies have been using Windows for the past 30 years. I would gladly accept any job using Windows, even more if they paid well. I hate Windows way more than everyone else, but being unemployed is worse nowadays.
You assume they don’t already have a job and we’re just looking for other opportunities. Not everyone is unemployed before they apply for other jobs. If anything that is a good time to look as it gives you stronger position to negotiate from.
In the overwhelming majority of situations you cannot begin the onboarding process with IT while still working for a previous employer. Especially at this level of software engineering that would run afoul of moonlighting policies.
is what your describing technically possible? sure. Is it even remotely probable? Absolutely not.
EDIT: I am absolutely flabbergasted at how many people don’t know their rights.
In the US this is covered by the Fair Labor Standards Act, which is extremely simple when defining what is considered on-the-job work. If it is mandatory, work-related, and for the benefit of the company, then it is on-the-job work and you should be paid for the time.
Stop perpetuating wage theft, people. It’s the #1 form of theft in the US by a wide margin. Learn your rights and demand pay for your work.
They would quit working at the old company before they start work at the new one. usually there wouldn’t be overlap.
You are right. You cannot onboard a new job before you leave your old one. Accepting an offer is not part of the onboarding process though. It happens before.
After an interview process the company makes an offer. The candidate can then accept or reject it. But that is really all informal. You can then negotiate with them for an official start date and contract. You just need to ensure you can hand in your notice and work the rest of your notice period before the start date of your new contract.
I don’t know anyone that would hand in their notice before accepting the initial offer of a company. At least here in the UK.
Communicating with IT is absolutely part of the onboarding process. And the phrasing of the email clearly states they are rescinding an offer acceptance, as in they had already accepted and begun onboarding.
You are not considered to be working somewhere until you have signed a contract and after the start date on that contract. Accepting a offer is not signing a contract. You are not working at the new place yet. You have no obligations to do anything at that point. You just need to have stopped working at your current employment before your start date. You definitely do not need to quit before accepting the offer. No where I have worked requires that.
I didn’t say you had to quit before accepting the offer. I said that the onboarding process itself is considered part of employment. If you’re talking to IT about setting up your workstation and not getting paid for it I feel bad that you’re being taken advantage of
Is this some usa user who haven’t heard about other countries? (and I doubt it’s even true in the usa).
Not only is this definitely true in the US but I know it’s true in other countries like the UK and Japan as well.
Senior backend engineering definitely doesn’t see 99% windows adoption rate.
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Yeah but a senior engineer would just use an old personal linux laptop from home, they wouldn’t even bother bitching about the employer issued machine.
How are they going to use a personal device when corporate policy locks that down?
I haven’t found a company that enforces windows of everyone. Seems ridiculous. I would sign the contract then simply require a Mac because I don’t know how to use Windows. IT be dammed.
Smaller companies, maybe. But bigger companies will have a ‘Security and Compliance’ department which will force everyone to use a company-supported platform. It goes beyond OS too. Unapproved apps, even if you are allowed to install them, may not connect to company resources.
Managing centralized security and device management correctly on multiple OSes must be a nightmare. From EDRs to app and device provisioning.
You should do dev work in devcontainers anyway.
Not that it’s an excuse or that I’m happy with that, but I can totally understand why companies do that, and tbh I’d rather see a properly secured than have the option to run Linux.
But I’m biased, because I used to do Red Teamings, and the things I’ve seen…
Yeah but MacOS has all the same security and group policy controls as windows.
Yeah but managing it fucking sucks.
Does anyone actually believe this post??? Because it reads like upvote farming.
We had a new joiner quit on his first day because of this. Didn’t even get to eat the burrito he ordered :( So it definitely happens.
Wait a minute, you’re telling me a post on programming_humor might be a meme?!?!?!?
Memes are fine.
But this is straight up propaganda trying to disguise itself as a joke.
If I’d even encounter a dev like the one from the post. I’d laugh in his face and wish him good luck on finding a job that caters to their niche needs.
Im pretty sure the entire joke is he’s an obnoxious Linux user who will never get a real job and knows absolutely nothing about actual development work
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy_in_autistic_people
Different people are different. For example, maybe ironically, your response also feels like it could be upvote farming to me. Also, the increased sense of justice thing is a thing.
They say while using gmail.
Gmail is functional at what it sets out to do, which is send and receive email.
The sender is not expressing privacy concerns, they’re expressing functionality / utility concerns.
Fair enough, still seems silly as hell to me. Windows is perfectly functional for corporate, and even software development use as long as the team managing the image and standard settings at your workplace is competent.
Yeah, being able to customize everything to meet your preferred workflow etc with Linux is preferable.
It is more than functional for corporate, seeing how the majority of companies run entirely on it.
Gmail is functional at what it sets out to do
it is not. it can’t even do such simple thing as sorting the inbox by the sender’s name. it may seem functional to people who never used real mail client and were brainwashed into accepting this as the only available ui, but it is really not.
It’s tagged “Inbox”, it looks like this is the recruiter’s POV.
And preferring yet another proprietary OS.
Better than outlook, no?
Sure, but kind of silly for someone who would take a stand against MS to the point of refusing a job to be happy with Google.
Then again, they also expressed they’d be happy with Apple/Mac
Their basis seems to not be corporate actions, but the usability of software.
They would probably have been happy with Windows 7.
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I think that’s a tad excessive. Sure, Windows sucks, but it’s not my machine so I don’t give a shit. Now, if they expected me to bring my own machine and also insist that it’s Windows, I’ll get pissed off and refuse the offer. Their machine though? They can demand whatever they want, so long as I can actually do my job.
9/10 times it’s not Windows I’m fighting against when I’m unable to do my job, it’s the IT department not giving me admin rights over the right folders so I can’t even install Docker without spending 3 days with them to get the right permissions.
Personally I also would not quit/back out just from that, but “it’s not my machine” misses the point, IMO. It’s a device I’m expected to use ~40 hours a week. Windows fucking sucks. Using that trash for half of my waking hours sucks. Been there, done that, I hope to hell I never have to again.
The fuck are you doing in it?
I’m a software engineer and we use windows. 90% of my day is spent in Visual Studio Professional. The rest is split between chrome, outlook, teams, postman, and SQL server management studio.
I literally never go to the start menu. I have shortcut icons on the bar for everything I need.
In my experience with windows there’s just a slight lagginess everywhere. I’ve had full gaming PCs still feel laggy just in Vscode. It’s not bad but it’s a small pain point that I don’t want to experience for 40 hours a week.
I’m was working on software that doesn’t exclusively target windows. Windows is only a decent dev environment if you’re targeting nothing but Windows. Any other kind of development is a worse, potentially way worse experience than it is on Linux. Using docker on Windows is painful. Using git is painful. Using bash is painful. The list goes on forever.
Most of our code lives on Linux servers. We target web browser most of the time. For those where it’s a windows application then sure it lives in windows environment.
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That doesn’t make it not suck. I’d much rather not hate my job.
Windows isn’t fit for software development unless you’re doing Windows specific stuff. Maybe you can get by with WSL or cygwyn or similar, but that’s just a bandaid to make the machine less windows. You’ll probably still have problems with like case folding and line endings.
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One of the other guys is on Windows and we had to change a config in git to handle it. Not sure what he did on his end. I have vscode on a Mac. Some people at this place have been working since like the 90s and probably are using notepad.
I was part of a 4 person IT team managing the company’s Linux servers and infrastructure. I was given a Windows 8 laptop from CostCo. The other admins had Windows laptops but EVERYONE else had Mac laptops. I was the only Mac-centric admin so the engineers came to me for help but mostly I kept their servers running using MobaTek’s terminal app. I used the browser and mail client on the laptop but that’s was the extent of my win8 usage. Which I could have run the configuration management tool we ran (puppet). Jenkins and git were running on the Linux boxes. I had to fix the CEO’s admin’s PC 4 times to remove malware but the engineers and their macs were problem free except for bad keyboards which Apple fixed.
extremely based, I have no idea how any dev at my company tolerates windows.
in addition to how extremely slow and incapable the OS is in general,we have to submit tickets to run software because everything is installed through random .exes.
Lmao.
,we have to submit tickets to run software because everything is installed through random .exes.
You have to do that because your IT department doesn’t trust you. There’s no difference in danger between a dev with system access installing an exe or a DMG.
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I think you’d find that many devs would opt for a Mac over Windows.
Mac is the compromise option
Explain why.
Both are big tech, donate to fascists, closed source, and a cancer to this society, the tech world, and open source.
Most developers I’ve seen in the field don’t care about any of that. They care if the OS is stable and they can run their programs.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t care more, they absolutely should, but they don’t
I care if an OS can manage the running applications and their windows in a reasonable way, which MacOS cannot.
There are also enough people in tech who don’t know about Open Source.
The percentage increases as you go away from the software domain
Yeah, but only one of them uses UNIX
Feathers are beautiful, but they can be devices of torture too
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Mac is based on Linux now
There’s a big difference between UNIX and Linux, and BSD can be very different from even other UNIX distributions. I believe macOS’ userland (definitely not the kernel) is based on FreeBSD 4.2.
If by “Linux” you mean “Unix/BSD” and by “now” you mean “for the last quarter century”, then yes. So, no.
Linux is a BSD fork now.
Mac OS is my favorite Linux distro.
I have it and I use it daily and I absolutely hate it. The latest MacOS Tahoe is an abomination.
It’s unstable, it sleeps monitors connected over USB-C while in use, Bluetooth audio pairing randomly doesn’t work, the virtualisation engine is crash prone, X11 integration magically stopped working a year ago and nobody seems to care.
Permissions are impenetrable, sshfs and fuse requires a kernel module and repeated reboots and permissions to be enabled.
I’m forced to have an OS update, requiring a reboot, to support a new model that I’m not running.
There’s no native package manager so applications just throw their shit all over the filesystem and the alternatives, Homebrew, Anaconda and MacPorts each have system breaking problems.
So … no. It absolutely sucks.
And here’s the kicker, it’s still better than Microsoft Windows.
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but unpleasant, and you’ll be miserable the whole time.
on the one hand, mac is often virtue signaling for hipsters, on the other hand it is a unix system, so… it often works that way.
Lmao mac elitists
Windows is shit for most things. Especially shit for development.
As someone who does cross-platform development: everything on Mac takes twice as long, and breaks with every OS update. And that’s without even the switch from PPC to Intel 32 bit to Intel 64 bit to ARM.
I’m exaggerating a bit, and I’m sure in many environments Mac is easy enough. But for us - there’s a reason we have more Mac developers than Windows and Linux combined, and it’s not because people want a Mac.
What makes it shit for development? I’ve been using windows as a developer for almost 10 years. I have switched to Linux at home, but I don’t develop on that PC. So I’d honestly like to hear whats so bad about it, and why is your preferred OS better?
WSL—and the ability it provides to run Linux on Windows—is actually quite convenient
But if all you need Windows for is a VM to run Linux, then just run Linux
Visual studio is pretty ok with it’s debugging functionalities.
Don’t have to be a mac elitist to reject windows
I had to do that once but the company wanted me to use a Mac over my own Linux. I can’t stand anymore to be forced to use specific platforms to do my job. It’s like going to a car repair and demand the mechanic to change your tire using a plastic wrench.
Man, imagine being in a financial situation where you could afford to turn down a job just because of if the OS you’d be using
God you must make a ton of money
Probably yeah. Ive done the same and said no to jobs where I couldnt use Linux. I didnt even want mac at that time, because 70% of the fun of the job was using Linux and native tools there.
Its not really strange. We are using our computers to do our job and we think its fun, so being forced to use a different platform ruins a lot of the fun.
I hate windows as much as the next lemmy user, but turning down a well paying job because I don’t want to use the OS 99+% of businesses use, means you must be at a level of stability I cannot even fathom.
And not you, but OP was kind of a dick calling IT lazy. As someone go works in IT myself, a lot of departments these days are woefully understaffed. We’re not going to support any extra software, causing us to work more overtime hours, because one douche is throwing a hissyfit
Yeah the agreement for me was always that i wont need any support from the company for my Linux, and I never did.
If you know Linux, it will just work. I had to use the web version of office and teams sometimes, but that worked ok during meetings.
I need to start applying to jobs while I’m still comfortable just for the thrill of turning them down.
Use your power for good 💪
I dev every workday on Windows 11 and I don’t get why people feel like it’s awful to work on? I dunno what everyone else is doing but it’s basically just switching between the IDE, Slack and the browser. The OS never seems to be an issue for me. My only real gripe is that even I click update and shutdown at the end of the day, it updates and restarts.
Same for my colleagues using a Mac.
I’d be more bothered about using Teams over Slack
It’s slow, it’s unstable, it’s slow, it’s hard to customise, it’s slow, it’s bloated, it’s slow, it’s counter intuitive. Did I also mention that it’s slow?
Personally I’ve never experienced any performance issues with it, seems fast and responsive to me.
Same here. I primarily use WSL2 as my dev environment. Everything outside that is native apps for collab and tooling.
Sure, if you just use Linux for dev, with a Windows hypervisor, you won’t notice the difference.
We devs also have a serious issue of performance blindness, because generally work and test on pretty beefy machines. Windows 11 is undeniably heavier on the system than Linux, and Mac hardware flies anyway. If your dev machine is beefy enough, you won’t really notice though.
Yeah I always have high end systems.
I dont disagree that windows sucks. I just don’t see it as a major issue for doing dev. As you say, that’s correlated to my high end system
It very much depends on what you’re developing for.
Back when I did server-side development (which almost invariably is targetting Linux servers), having Linux as my dev environment was much better if only because I could run parts (or even all) of our server code directly in my machine configured as a Dev Environment.
However, for example, for Game Dev running Linux is much more of a problem because some tools are for Windows and you have to jump through hoops to make it run in Linux, if at all.
If you’re doing development on internal frontend systems for use by the Business side of a non-Tech company, then Windows is almost certainly the best dev OS because the software is meant to run in Windows machines (as that’s what the Business runs, unless we’re talking about creative companies, in which case it will be Mac) so the very same reasons why Linux is better for server dev apply here for Windows - it way more straightforward to develop in a machine where you can directly test at least parts of the code within the OS it will be running in.
Yeah, you can run virtual machines or deploy to a dev server, but that just adds extra steps and hence extra overhead for frequently done things like running small snippets of code whilst developing just to check it’s working as expected.
Then there’s the whole big company vs small company side of things: big companies have dedicated IT Support people and those will naturally try to standardize things for the obvious reason that it’s way more effective (same thing in dev, by the way, good Technical Architects try to keep the number of programming languages used low because its generally more efficient to have libraries, frameworks, maintenance and hiring practices around a smaller number of languages than it is to do it for many languages) which in turn means that in large companies “everybody gets the same” is an almost unassailable policy except for top-level management.
Honestly, yeah, I’d do the same. After several past jobs required Linux, even downgrading to a Mac feels pretty bad. Can’t imagine Macroslop Wangblows.
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Windows with WSL is honestly a pretty decent Linux.
That said, the aggressive AI, advertising, and telemetry baked into the OS over the last few years is awful. Hopefully it’s possible for IT teams to mass-opt-out from those “features” via corporate fleet management; if not, that may genuinely be a good reason for companies to migrate off of Windows.
There are ways for normal home users to bodily rip this shit out, but it takes some work and technical knowledge to effectively rip-and-tear in ways that work for you.
Some of the tools are also not the most user-friendly, expect the user to be a power user with deep familiarity with Windows, and have non-obvious workflows that may confuse a majority of average users.
It shouldn’t have to be a privilege to be able to turn down a job because of poor decisions management makes, but you can really only get away with this if you have options.
Sorry for the potato resolution
I use WSL at work, I pin max RAM and only leave one CPU running for the host OS. It’s still a nightmare. This upcoming week I’m finally deploying Redhat IDM so that myself and others can use their smartcards and the ancient AD infra to get linux workstations and jumpboxes. Microsoft did me a massive favor by raising our licensing pricing so now it’s cheaper to replace Azure AD.
Should have used AI to up scale it
ducks
