- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
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Can’t make this shit up. Germany needs a better army because Russia is actively attacking it, so what do they do? Sell their shit to Israel.
A quick reminder that Russia’s attack on Europe is decisively supported by China.
Although Ukraine also buys all their drone components from China.
Really, they’re just sitting back and making a profit.
How do you know?
China’s already won the war against the west.
They don’t care.China can’t even complete their silk road. All they are winning at is price dumping and ramming fishing boats. Meanwhile, their demographics are even worse than the West and irreversibly so.
Temu and others disagree.
I did mention price dumping in my comment.
I wouldn’t give Israel even one helmet, but I don’t think Germany is actually short on submarines.
Also all russia can really threaten Europe and Germany with are ballistic missiles and who was it again who launched a war THEY KNEW would consume much of Europe’s ballistic missile interceptors either directly or indirectly?
Israel
Actually that is one of the best arguments for selling arms to Israel. Germany bought Arrow from them, which is perfect against Russian longer range missiles. Nobody in Europe produces a system with similar capabilities and the only alternatives to that are being sold by the US, Russia and China.
As for Patriot interceptors, those are used by the US and Arab countries. Israel has a system called Davids Sling, which has similar capabilities. They actually sold that to Finland and Greece. Currently Volkswagen is in talks with Israel to produce parts of that in Germany. That would be a useful factory to have in case of a war with Russia.
Also no European country has send missile interceptors to Israel or any country in the region. The most are shooting down some Iranian drones attacking Cyprus, but that is to be expected.
I’m not convinced of the utility of Patriot/David’s Sling in modern warfare. In the early phase of the 2026 Israel/USA-Iran war, Iran was shooting about a dozen missiles per night at Israel, and there’s good indication that a substantial amount got through. Of the (admittedly limited) number of videos that leaked out of Israel, Iranian rockets were often not even met by interceptor fire at all; some videos show how infrastructure get hit during daytime while no sirens are on; and in the cases that there was successful interception the kill rate appears to be less than 1/3.
Without speculating too much, it appears that these systems are not suitable for neutralizing hypersonic missiles. Further, they’re useless against cluster munitions, and using them on attack drones is a waste. Shahed-136 is getting a range extension and a 3x speed boost by the way.
Conclusion: Israeli weaponry is shit. It’s good for fighting asymmetric warfare when you’re the overwhelmingly stronger party. It’s great taking makeshift rockets made by an underground guerilla out of the sky. Against a real country, it’s a flawed doctrine and an impossible technology.
If the USA can’t defend their bases against Iran, then what exactly is the use of these missile interceptors against an enemy like Russia?
So maybe use those billions of Euros at home developing a real strategy.
I see a massive modern war in Ukraine, where Ukraine is fighting for survival. The number one system they want are missile interceptors like Patriot. They spend a lot of money and political capital on getting them. More then on any other system.
I see your point, but is that not partly because weapon sales to Ukraine is very limited? They’re not getting fighter jets, they’re not getting good offensive weapons (or if they do, they come with significant strings attached, like they have to promise not to hit certain regions or targets within Russia). But there are no such limits for interceptors. And interceptors are very expensive, so it’s small wonder that they’d quickly eat through your budget.
I mean, Ukraine is quite conservative with their use of Patriots, so they might only use them for missiles and only use a single interceptors (rather than throwing 2-3 Patriots at a drone like Israel does). But even so, they could have gotten a Gripen F for the price of 25 PAC-3 interceptors, if we’re just considering the price here. The problem is to get approval for the purchase (not gonna happen) and even if you did, get the planes delivered within a reasonable time frame (not gonna happen, would take years).
So there are the limits on what the West actually allows for export to Ukraine, and also the actual supply. A lot of the export has been theoretical, and slow to deliver, because the West wants to keep a lot of weapons in case they need it. And they know that they’re slow to produce more.
Russia is surely watching what is happening on both sides of the Atlantic closely. Moscow knows that it is also subject to the laws of physics when it comes to its own munitions depth, but it understands the politics of scarcity. If US intelligence assessments are right that Putin plans to “test NATO resolve” in the coming years, then the replenishment clock matters on both sides—and Russia is trying to recapitalize itself while fighting a full-scale war.
One of the reasons for Ratcliffe’s visit to Moscow, according to the Washington Post, was to dispel the Kremlin’s belief that the Trump White House was distracted from Ukraine by Iran. Good luck with that. The reporting on the severe depletion of US interceptor stocks from the war on Iran is so extensive it can only have encouraged Vladimir Putin to launch even more deadly missile strikes against Ukraine’s defenseless population.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/sep/03/ukraine-iran-wars-trump
Have you read the first article?
Quote by you:
who was it again who launched a war THEY KNEW would consume all of Europe’s ballistic missile interceptors?
From the first article:
Germany has donated about one-third of its Patriot systems to Ukraine,
Oh and also from the article:
Israel is a unique case in the region but faces similar constraints. Its indigenous missile defense capabilities—including Arrow 3, Arrow 2, and David’s Sling—give it options that other US partners in the region do not have.
In other words Israel can build missile interceptors.
And then you even quote the article:
If US intelligence assessments are right that Putin plans to “test NATO resolve” in the coming years, then the replenishment clock matters on both sides
In other words, being able to access more interceptors is a key thing for European NATO members. Israel can make more of those.
Oh and this is from the US, who stopped Patriot missile sales to Ukraine BEFORE the war against Iran for months, because Zelensky did not war a suit. I would not be surprised if US stockpiles do not matter in a war at all, because the US is unwilling to sell them to Europe. That obviously would make Israel an even more important option.
Yes I did read the article and no, none of your points establish that Israel is an ally of Europe or Ukraine, you have only established that Israel has increased political leverage of them.
Oh and this is from the US, who stopped Patriot missile sales to Ukraine BEFORE the war against Iran for months,
The US and Israel planned the Iran War at least months in advance? This proves nothing.
Israel has supplied Ukraine with air defence interceptors last year. That was months after the the US halted all military aid to Ukraine.
A SINGLE PATRIOT SYSTEM does not make up for all the missiles fired in the war of choice that is the Iran War, that Israel and the US chose to start arbitrarily.
Germany is guilt trapped in relation to Israel, it’s sad how much they get taken advantage off
Removed by mod
We are part of a genocide… i can’t believe our government approves this…
I can believe it.
That’s so sad… 😑
> Gives Israel a billion dollars, because they’re so sorry.
> Still elects Nazis.
Edit: Although, Jesus, people are big mad at them in here. Russia and “Belarus” are still the problem, and Germany is still a valuable member of the EU.
Jesus, you are a prolific (“big, very big”) troll for normalizing putler alone – and especially so when normalizing putler’s Russia in comparison to an EU member state. No shame, no clues. Yet - thousands of posts. Omg.
Did you reply to the wrong person?
If not, the edit makes it pretty clear I’m not siding with Russia.
Ok, thanks! That helped 🖐️
WTF are you doing Germany? up to your old tricks i see
They’re trying to master the race to the bottom.
German people in power dont do a genocide, challenge level: IMPOSSIBLE.
tho tbf it seema most other governments in eu have this brain bug as well. Bibi really got the boomers in a stranglehold
Germany: Since 1914 on the wromg side of history.
Oh, come on, that’s one hell of a false equivalency.
Even WWI was basically different colonial empires fighting over colonies. You can’t really call them the bad guys before the Nazis came to power, and while people here will disagree which Germany was the better one afterwards, you probably like one of the two.
I think it’s time for the German elite to let it go. That’s it, it was awful, but it was almost a century ago. No living German was part of it. It’s time to move on.
This Germany was the one who let most of the profiteurs of the holocaudt walk away and looked away until the '68 revolte pushed that it couldn’t be looked away anymore.
The German elite should learn better lessons from it, that no people should be discriminated and violated and that no war is justified.
To remember is to change.
Exactly. No living palestinian nor israeli was part of the UN suggestion of the two state solution (which was rejected and a war was started…and was lost. Then another one.). So, time to move on?
In reality it looks more convenient not to move on - but to act as if the 1947 plan by UN hasn’t been rejected…by the very own predecessors.
It’s not the responsibility of today’s Germany to help the two sides out of the conflict where they are stuck for decades now. Both not even recognising as states (so not respecting borders?).
Would be much cooler if they also sold 2 billion dollars worth of arms exports to their neighborsto keep everyone happy…
Germany has no right to exist.
No state does. States are just political constructs.
true.
How dare you antichristian!!
deleted by creator
Just goes to show…business first! Make Germany great again! /s
Wait what does bibi have on the leader of Germany?
“If you don’t do everything I say, I’m calling you an antisemite and a nazi!” - sounds dumb, but I’m pretty sure that’s essentially what it is. And it worked practically every time on every German leader since Hitler, so far.
Hardly, maybe bibi does but Germany would have likely supported Israel the same way the US would have likely supported Israel whether or not bibi has any “blackmail” or whatever on leaders in the US.
I mean, what German politician was it who said “Israel does our dirty work for us?”
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-merz-says-israel-doing-dirty-work-for-us-in-iran/live-72939104
Ah yes, the leader of Germany!
… In Iran. If you’re gonna quote, don’t do that in a disingenuous way.
The Iran War and the Palestinian Genocide are directly linked, I am not being disingenuous.
Are they though?
Yes you ignorant fool
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-iran-war-is-about-palestine
Today, three decades after he first cast Iran as the engine behind anti-Israel sentiment, Netanyahu has finally gotten his war. Israel posits the war as defense against an existential threat, but as ever, what is driving it is the impulse to suppress and displace the Palestine question. Seen this way, the Iran war once again reveals Israel’s most fundamental interest, which has remained unchanged for decades: to prosecute the question of Palestine on its own terms, whether through the continued system of apartheid or outright genocide. Netanyahu is once again proving that he would sooner redraw the map of the Middle East than push back Israel’s borders—preferring to crater Tehran and Isfahan than concede a single dunam in the West Bank.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/17/middleeast/iran-links-attacks-to-israels-war-in-gaza-intl
Attacks by Iranian-backed groups in the Middle East won’t stop until Israel’s war on Hamas in Gaza ends, Tehran’s top diplomat warned on Wednesday, as tensions across the region threaten to spiral into wider conflict.
“If the genocide in Gaza stops, then it will lead to the end of other crises and attacks in the region,” Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria in an interview at the World Economic Forum in Davos on Wednesday.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67188346
“I warn the US and its proxy Israel that if they do not immediately stop the crime against humanity and genocide in Gaza, anything is possible at any moment and the region will go out of control,” Mr Amir-Abdollahian said at a news conference in Tehran.
The shattering of the Iranian regime risks triggering a catastrophic horizontal war and vertical political collapse, as Israel remains the primary existential threat to the region’s stability—a crisis forcing the Middle East back into 19th-century power politics. This regression, driven by a US policy that is dismantling the very system it once established, effectively ends the region’s brief ‘Dengist era’ and the economic spirit that once fuelled its connectivity projects.
The Israeli genocide in Gaza has dramatically escalated tensions across the region. What began as a devastating war in Gaza has gradually transformed into a broader geopolitical confrontation particularly between the Israeli-US coalition and Iran.
https://www.newarab.com/analysis/gazas-roadmap-nowhere-why-israel-wont-give-control
The former official explained that Israel is comfortable with the current status quo in Gaza because it allows it to retain control of a depopulated 70% of the enclave, while avoiding the cost of feeding and sheltering its displaced population.
No matter what the case is with negotiations, this war is a war of choice. Particularly important in understanding its causes and possible execution is the fact that the war was started by two states that are actively engaging in genocide.
Both Israel and the U.S. are perpetrating genocide against Palestinians. The United States is further engaged in domestic genocidal processes against transgender and immigrant communities. The genocidal character of these two regimes should not be overlooked, as it helps to explain their ongoing recklessness and breathtaking disrespect for international law.
Genocidal regimes are self-radicalizing entities that see power only in wanton violence and actively seek out dramatic displays of brute force in efforts to control ever more territory (and enrich themselves while doing so). They are willing to countenance high numbers of civilian casualties to get their way and have little trouble papering over the horror and tragedy they cause with overwrought, eschatological, and particularist ideology. We can see all of this in their attacks against Iran, where both countries are attacking civilian objects, especially hospitals and schools, and threatening the use of mass casualty weapons.
Regarding the genocide in Palestine specifically, it has been clear for some time now that it is closely connected to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s larger plans for a ‘Greater Israel’ in the Middle East that would realize Israeli hegemony over the region. Iran is the greatest obstacle to this plan and a war with Iran further presents the perfect cover for the continued destruction of Palestinian life in Gaza and the Occupied Territories. While Israeli expansionism was somewhat contained under previous U.S. presidents, with the exception of the illegal settlements (which have been steadily growing over the 21st century), the Biden and Trump Administrations seem to have given Prime Minister Netanyahu a green light to expand into neighboring states. Moreover, the Gaza carnage has become a model for Israel’s prosecution of war in general.
Do you want me to keep going?
