Had no idea so many Ukrainians distrust Zelenskyy, and further, view corruption as a threat nearly as bad as the war itself. It makes the “no elections during wartime” argument even more indefensible.
I’m sure they could have elections, but bear in mind, getting votes from soldiers would take a very long time, since they can’t even get rotated out of the zone when they’re supposed to.
The working class loses every war.
Not surprising. The new powerful countries are China, Iran, and Russia. The west failed to protect Ukraine. The west cares mainly of funding Israel’s genocide of Palestinians.
So how credible is spectator?
the experts – both american and russian – are saying that there’s going to to be another vietnam war moment when liberals are made aware that ukraine is imminently about to lose like there was when saigon fell; but i strongly suspect that your response is going to be MUCH more common – questioning the validity of the source instead – if anything at all.
ironically, it is the right move to question it, but i suspect that it won’t do much considering that basic facts like the united states congress voting to ban weapons shipments to ukraine for its neo-nazi proclivities are hidden in plain sight.
without seeing videos of helicopters evacuating cia & military assets out of kiev on prime time news like they did with the fall of siagon – ukraine’s loss will likewise be hidden in plain sight.
It’s a stablished, economically liberal, conservative newspaper from the UK. I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole, but this is a criterion of embarassment situation, as they have been Ukraine supporters in the war and have been historically a supporter of the US and NATO.
And that’s precisely what makes their admissions so valuable since there is zero chance of them having any sort of a pro-Russian bias.
“It’s a stablished, economically liberal, conservative newspaper from the UK”
It’s a far right illiberal shitrag that was one of the leading outlets that attacked & bullied professor Jason Arday and has an array of journalists such as Rod Liddle (recently dead, yay!), who himself wrote:
“I never found out [what sort of teacher I’d be] because the one thing stopping me from being a teacher was that I could not remotely conceive of not trying to shag the kids. It seemed to me to be virtually impossible not to, and I was convinced that I’d be right in there, on day one.”
Removed by mod
Ah yes, Russian propaganda from checks notes… The Spectator 🤣
Do you think Ukraine is winning and that everyday Ukrainian men aren’t being kidnapped off the street to be sent into the meat grinder?
Legitimately, do you believe Ukraine is winning? The best outcome for Ukrainians right now is a negotiated surrender, otherwise they will continue to be sacrificed for western profits.
Lol tell me when they’ve lost. At this rate, they’ll still be “losing” the war 50 years from now.
Tell me how Ukraine is winning.
By not surrendering.
So Ukraine is not losing even down to the last Ukrainian?
This is what not surrendering is like; busification.org
Damn, old ass gramps like that in the army, this shit should be over in three days.
Wait.
That link is an archive of Ukrainians being kidnapped by the fascist Zelensky government for them to be sent to their death. All in favour of your unrepentant bloodlust against the Russians.
Ok. So they’re winning?
Is it time to ban me?
man you’re a disgusting fascist. Truly shows that you only care about Ukrainians in such when they serve your violent bloodthirst.
You have terminal Marvel movie brain.
By converting a “3 day operation” into a multi year, million plus casualty event for Russia. By going from “west offers to evacuate leader” to “Ukraine offers west drone training”.
Tell me how Russia taking on over a million and a half casualties is winning… Hell how about you describe reality first and then back up such a dumbass request.
By converting a “3 day operation” into a multi year,
Who said it was a 3-day operation?
Tell me how Russia taking on over a million and a half casualties is winning… Hell how about you describe reality first and then back up such a dumbass request.
The Ukrainian government is literally kidnapping Ukrainians and forcing them into fighting against their will. It’s extremely clear that Ukrainians don’t want to fight for their Nazi government. Even fucking liberals are starting to realize this and reporting on the Nazi kidnappers being pushed back by the people.
By going from “west offers to evacuate leader” to “Ukraine offers west drone training”.
Because Ukraine is literally run by fascists, why else would they dig up dead Nazis to give them posthumous awards? Why else do they have fascist slogans, fascist symbols?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/5/zelenskyy-says-wants-ukraine-to-become-a-big-israel
Who said it was a 3-day operation?
US Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley. It’s also pretty rich to mention 4 year special operation when USA wage completely undeclared not-wars for literal decades like in Afghanistan or Iraq
Shirvan at CaspianReport did a piece on this recently. His view seemed to be that it’s unlikely the frontline is going to move very much more and that current miltary actions from both sides may be for the purpose of gaining leverage during negotiations.
He paints a picture where:
- UA retains sovereignty and is provided a path to EU accession
- UA receives security guarantees
- UA concedes some of its territory to RU
- UA is prohibited from joining NATO
This would allow:
- VZ to claim UA’s sovereignty was defended
- VZ to move UA further into the Eurosphere
- VP to claim RU achieved its goal of stopping NATO advance
- VP to claim RU achieved its goals of better access to Crimea
The whole thing seemed pretty pragmatic, give it a watch if you’re interested in this sort of thing.
“Complaining about a problem without posing a solution is called whining.” Theodore Roosevelt.
Acknowledging that Ukraine is loosing this war of attrition if not supplied with more money, weapons, munitions, and probably even military personnel is a basic fact. The article doesn’t dare any suggestions on where to go from accepting that fact. Make peace on Russian terms ASAP and become a vassal state over the next decade or so, after Russia breaks security guarantees once again? Fight on and become a vassal state over the next 1-3 years, but with more death and destruction? Any silver lining for Ukraine other than hoping for more US, UK, or European arms, and possibly military personnel? Any leverage? The article sure doesn’t say…
Europe is very obviously in no position to fight Russia head on, and it would be utter insanity for Europe to go to all out war with the biggest nuclear power in the world. It’s also worth keeping in mind that it was the West and Ukraine who broke Minsk 1 and 2 agreements as has now been openly admitted by top European officials.
It was the west that sabotaged the agreement in Istanbul two weeks into the war which would’ve allowed Ukraine to stay whole. It was the west that rejected an agreement two years into the war.
The west has been cynically using the people of Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia this whole time. And every single scumbag who supports this war has blood on their hands.
In regard to the western breach of Minsk 1/2, please cite the “openly admitted by top European officials” source. Also, please explain the Minsk 1/2 agreements so that we can understand how the West and Ukraine “broke” them. And did Russia give up their nuclear weapons in exchange for security guarantees? Istanbul agreement? - once bitten, twice shy.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/12/22/ffci-d22.html
Also, why would Russia be giving up their nuclear weapons. You’re so deeply confused here. Ukraine never had nuclear weapons or the launch codes. USSR stationed nuclear weapons on the territory of Ukraine, and Russia became the successors state and inherited the weapons. This was agreed by all parties involved.
Correct, under the condition that it didn’t question Ukrainian sovereignty or territorial integrity going forward… guess 20 years are a long time.
Edit: … and come on?! A link to a blatant propaganda page as credible evidence? Taking a quote completely out of context to interpret in a way that fits your narrative? The article literally says that Merkel didn’t believe the Minsk agreement was a permanent solution. At no point does she say NATO, the US, or Germany broke it or intended to break it. The quote rather implies: We didn’t really believe Russia would leave it at that, so be bought Ukraine time to prepare for the next attack. That attack, as we all know, did follow in 2022. Good thing Ukraine had some time to prepare.
Ah yes, everything you don’t agree with is propaganda. It’s incredible how you lib trolls just keep doing these mental gymnastics. But western regimes aren’t even hiding the truth. Here’s no lesser person than the US secretary of state openly admitting this is a proxy war. Here’s The Hill explaining the history of it. But sure you keep on braying about blatant propaganda there.
Fam, WSWS is literally the official online publication of a political organization. That’s like citing the US house speaker on matters of the war in Iran: Of course your answer is going to be colored red, white, and blue. I agree that it’s a proxy war. We’re just disagreeing on who started it and who’s defending against aggression. In my reading, it’s far preferable for the EU to stop Russia’s advance in Ukraine than to stop it in Poland. And they should probably be a bit more serious about stopping it in Ukraine than just sending weapons. It’s ugly already, but it could become so much more ugly if Russia keeps pushing and pushing West.
Oh I’m sorry, I forgot that socialist sources are offensive to fascists.
You’re probably right that it would be a stupid idea. On the other hand, it does not feel so much like Europe is choosing to fight Russia head on but rather that Russia is encroaching closer and closer on the European borders every 10 years or so by annexing another part of Ukraine. That was the point I made above:
- 1994: Give up nuclear weapons, Budapest memorandum, oops, 2014 invasion of Crimea.
- 2014/15: Give up Crimea, another round of peace talks and agreements, oops, 2022 full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
- Now: Should Ukraine give up Donbas and Luhansk and demilitarize to appease Russia? Give it another 10 years and Russia finds a pretense to swallow the remaining Ukraine or make it a vassal republic, which will be greatly aided by their demilitarization. What comes next? The same piecemeal tactic with the Baltics or Poland? Another piece of land every 10-odd years?
Every time Ukraine has appeased Russia, Russia came back to bite it a few years later. And please don’t give me the “NATO is encroaching on Russia” talk: At the beginning of the war, 70-odd percent of Ukrainians were in favor of closer ties with the EU. If one takes self-determination seriously, as a lot of people on this instance seem to selectively do for the self-determination of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine, one can’t deny a country to choose its allies free from a threat of invasion by its neighbor, who also happens to be the biggest nuclear power in the world.
Ukraine never had nuclear weapons or the codes. USSR stationed nuclear weapons in Ukraine and Russia is the inheritor state of USSR. And I wonder what might’ve happened in 2014, oh right a western backed regime change that overthrew the legitimately elected government and put literal fascists in charge.
Every time the west pushed Ukraine to keep fighting Russia things got worse for Ukraine. But scum like you doesn’t give fuck about Ukrainians, you’re a parasite cheering on for other people to die for some abstract ideals you don’t actually believe in. If you believed a word of what you said, you’d be signing up for the foreign legion and sitting in a trench. Instead, your just cheer on for other people to die. You’re a piece of human garbage and you have blood on your hands.
You keep bringing up that point but I don’t think it means what you think it means. Sure, they didn’t have the launch codes but they were in the physical possession of nuclear weapons stationed on their territory by the USSR. At the very least, this meant they had weapons-grade highly enriched fissile material, even the possibility of which makes neighboring countries nervous, as we are all learning in Iran. They could’ve disassembled them, reverse engineered them, destroyed them, or whatever, but they chose to give them to the successor state of the USSR for the hollow promise of territorial integrity. They could’ve developed their own nukes, but they didn’t. Instead, they trusted the deal and the security guarantees. For that deal, and for the act of breaking it in 2014 and in 2022, it makes no difference whether Ukraine had the capacity of launching those nukes in the 90s.
Yeah, guess what bud, nobody in the west wanted Ukraine to have nukes either. There was literally no possibility of that happening. They didn’t do it because literally nobody would’ve allowed them to do it. They trusted the west, and the west cynically used them as a proxy. While scumbags like you keep pretending it’s about democracy or some shit.
scumbags like you
Welp, there goes the civility. Nevertheless, I wish you a genuinely good day as well as some sense. As for the actual argument in your comment: Why are you blaming the West for not following through on their security guarantees? A few comments back you had pointed out how stupid it were if they went to all out war against Russia. Why aren’t you blaming Russia for not following through on their security guarantees by, IDK, not invading Ukraine? Double-think…
Edit: Had forgotten to pull apart the quote from the paragraph beneath. Now corrected.
The west never offered any security guarantees to Ukraine and Ukraine keeping nuclear material was never on the table. So, your whole premise is utter nonsense. Meanwhile, Russia was perfectly fine with Ukraine doing its own thing until the west overthrew the government in Ukraine in 2014. The only double-think here is you avoiding the elephant in the room.
