I’m a cis male and I believe in the importance of feminism, but I hesitate to call myself a feminist because it seems like there is a presumption of understanding women’s experiences as if I was part of the Me Too movement. In some binary sense given how hateful and shitty men can be I’m absolutely a feminist, but I wouldn’t declare myself to be one. What is your standpoint?
I was raised with Gloria Steinem’s definition of feminism shaping my understanding, and have called myself a feminist since I was a child:
“A feminist is anyone who recognizes the equality and full humanity of women and men.”
A more modern and inclusive version of that same idea, adopted by UN Women:
“Feminism is the belief that everyone, regardless of gender, should have equal rights and opportunities.”
Feminism is a very complex grouping of movements and ideologies, but I think “membership” within them is very simple: if you believe in equality regardless of gender, you’re a feminist.
How does it feel that the person who defined feminism for you was a CIA agent?
Not great!
Are you implying that feminism is a CIA initiative?
Steinem worked with the CIA to promote reactionary propaganda and helped direct the women’s liberation movement into a corporate-friendly, anti-socialist direction.
Source: Jacobin
They didn’t imply feminism is a CIA initiative, but the CIA definitely worked with her to influence the feminist movement.
Sure, because they cared about controlling the direction of the political movement, same way they influenced the Civil Rights movement. But once again, unless they are implying that the definition of feminism as offered by Steinem, quoted above, is part of a CIA influence op, or tainted by their influence, then what’s the point of bringing that up?
To have a conversation? To get further insight into how a person thinks? To gain understanding? To talk about the ideological framework through which the person views the world, and hopefully gain some perspective out of that talk?
If they truly intended it to be a neutral question, then they used a particularly bad choice of phrasing.
Most people understand the CIA is a tool of imperialist violence/authority, but framing that as “how does it feel to x” is clearly a condemnation of the association being pointed out, which in this case would only matter if that association itself in some way taints the topic it was brought up in response to… I.e. the definition of feminism by Steinem.
Fair point.
Yes, absolutely.
You don’t have to understand a woman’s experience so much as you have to not be a dick when she tells you her experience.
Look at all the men that got butthurt over “bear vs rando man” and I’m gonna be honest, I’d choose the bear over many of them too. They refused to listen to what was actually being said by that statement.
Yes, I’m a cis man and I am a Marxist feminist. Feminism is not exclusionary to cis men, and Marxist feminism is critical as patriarchy is a secondary contradiction that rests upon the primary contradiction of class society. Attacking sexism attacks capitalism, and attacking capitalism attacks sexism. They are connected.
I had professors ask us to raise our hands if we’re a feminist, and usually every young man did. This was in the Obama administration, before the right became so fascist, but still. We don’t expect you to have an equally deep understanding or to be familiar with academic feminist works. We just expect you to believe women are equally valuable individuals, who have the right to pursue their own happiness, live their lives how they want to live them, and be supported by their community in their health, wellbeing, and pursuits.
Of course I would and I do. I find the arguments that there are many branches of feminism to be a reason to not consider yourself a feminist to be kind of ridiculous. There are multiple branches of everything. Not all anarchists agree, not all socialists agree, not all communists agree. No group is a monolith with perfectly aligned values and thoughts.
Absolutely would call myself a feminist and here’s the reason. Calling yourself a feminist is a declaration that you aren’t in performance for brownie points for men’s sake and you aren’t going to fade to the background the first second the going gets tough. Feminists don’t “hate men” but the fact that their issues get sidelined the minute anybody’s feelings about their personal masculinity gets hurt means most of the time any discussion about women’s issues become about mincing around insecure men.
Feminism is egalitarianism, it is strictly NOT female superiority. The issue with calling feminism egalitarianism is it tends to be a label summerizing the passive part of the movement that asks nothing of people.
Systems that aren’t artificially adjusted just end up replicating the same shit they always had over and over and the adjustments don’t feel fair or equal to the people who have always benefitted before the change. Justice sometimes meaning giving up something to the party in need. Damn near everyone is up for equality in theory, but the moment they are asked to give up anything suddenly it’s women’s superiority. They don’t look at being passed over for the promotion in favor of an equally deserving and more generally underrepresented woman as being just or needed when it’s them who doesn’t get chosen. They still in their heart of hearts believe that whenever a woman comes out on top it’s not because she deserves to be there.
And it’s hard. It’s hard to put justice first. It’s hard to hire someone who isn’t your close personal friend who looks just like you and instead choose someone who acts or looks different who you won’t be as comfortable around. It’s hard to change your culture to be mindful of needs you don’t personally have to make someone else comfortable. The whole POINT is that it’s hard. Everything that is hard for you is a comfort, a point without personal friction you have, a PRIVILEGE that you are purposefully choosing to not cash in on anymore because that privilege was never on the table for someone else.
If you aren’t willing to face the minor discomfort of being devisive and calling yourself a feminist and gaining the ire of other men what other comforts are you not going to give up?
Feminism is egalitarianism, it is strictly NOT female superiority
Exactly, the latter is matriarchy and that’s the one I really want to try out! I don’t think it would be perfect but I am just curious how it would turn out? For science!
Honestly me too. And YES i am biased as hell here. I don’t like people in general and my objective opinion is that power will attract the wrong people regardless of gender.
BUUUT my subjective experience will not let me believe that women in charge would not change things for the better overall. From a purely curious place i would really like to see how it would work out, a failure would be just as interresting to me as a success.
I want to add that i also believe the main problem of patriachy is not the oppression of women but the oppression of “female” coded traits. What i would really like to see is a society that favors empathy and collaboration, i don’t need women in charge for that and i certainly don’t base my support for anyone on their genitals, that would be crazy.
Yes 100% bc the literal definition of feminism is the equal treatment for all genders. I don’t go around just telling people that. They can probably just tell I am bc I’m not shitty to a specific gender…
Yes. Even in the most cynical light, standing with women is within my own self interest because my rights will surely erode alongside theirs. But also i like women and am disgusted with how they are treated socially and economically, and want that to change for the better. So a feminist i am.
Feminism is a social movement, made up of the practical activity of people in solidarity with each other. While centering and amplifying the voices and experiences of women and other victims of chauvinism is absolutely essential, remember that there is an incredible need to organize. Movements need people to take notes, make phone calls, promote campaigns, educate, show up to events, share our own experiences where people we care about were victims of patriarchy, and much much more.
Feminism isn’t just an idea, and patriarchy victimizes men as well as women, though obviously in drastically different ways and to drastically different degrees. Ideas don’t make up social movements, people do. Ideas help us name the world/the problem, which is the first step of revolution, but actual abolition of social structures takes work. Leaving all that work to the victims of patriarchy actually reinforces patriarchy.
Patriarchy and other consequences of class hierarchy are defeated by the contradictions that they create in society. A man who devotes himself to the abolition of male dominant society is the embodiment of such a contradiction. That’s what we are, don’t over think it. Just roll up our sleeves, listen and take good notes, offer to help organize and always center the voices and experiences of the victims of patriarchy.
No, never.
Because I don’t even understand what feminism is. There’s so many conflicting opinions under that umbrella that the label doesn’t even make much sense to me.In my humble enby opinion you can call yourself a feminist if you believe in equality between genders. There are many flavours of feminism and they often contradict each other. You will never be a perfect feminist in every feminists’ eyes. And you shouldn’t try to be.
But be humble and curious when other feminist and particularly women try to explain their point of view.
Hard yes. If you believe in equality and justice what the fuck else would you be?
Though, I suppose there are those that don’t… They can fuck off
I understand what you are saying, but you don’t need a lived female experience to be a feminist.
I will declare you one. You are a feminist. Be proud.
Woman here and we could use more male feminists
Absolutely.
If you’re a guy, you’ve heard guys talk about women when none are around. Maybe it’s coworkers, maybe it’s family, but the culture of misogyny is not some on-the-wane thing, it is alive and well.
