The power trip / ban doesn’t bother me, but the misinformation does. They present as leftist, but flare up around US elections discouraging voter turnout via ‘bOtH siDeS’ garbage. that only ever elevates shit like MAGA.
In the linked thread, OP promotes rioting while discouraging voter turnout. My comments agreed with activism like riots, but pointed out that it’s not an either-or thing. You can riot -and- vote; and even if you don’t have it in you to riot, still do vote.
Banned.
You can see my removed comment quoted in the post after mine.
This ‘blue MAGA’ tankie shit is somehow worse than the loud-and-clear MAGA shit over on Reddit - at least those neonazis were honest about who they were.
Anywho, YSK. Spaces like r/conservative were clearly labeled and easy to avoid; LateStageCapitalism@lemmy.world presents as a cause worth rallying around, but only until you peel up the veneer and see that they’re the same fucking thing.
Also please vote. In addition to whatever flavor of activism tickles your fancy.
Note to all: This is not the place to get on your “VOTE” soapboaxes. Stick to judging the moderation action.
And one of the main ways to judge posts is to VOTE them up or down. Hmmm.
Not in this comm. Check the sticky
Sorry, will do from now on.
PTB. Everyone should be voting in this election. People like that boil all nuance down to two black and white naive takes:
- That you are either a voter OR you go out and protest. In reality there is nothing stopping you from doing both.
- That you should not vote because there is no unicorn candidate. In reality there will never be a perfect candidate.
I have voted in every election in the last 20 years, local, state, federal - and I have yet to see a candidate that I agree with completely. It will never happen. Expecting change tomorrow is a naive take. Slow incremental change is the only change I’ve seen on this planet. You are going to need to compromise on candidates, because it’s always a bad and a worse candidate, and not voting means you are okay with the worse candidate. It’s happening right now, and people are shocked pikachu of what happened in the last election. The reason is simple, people didn’t vote.
Conservatives desperately want us to not go and vote. That should really tell you everything. Does it mean you have to agree with the candidate on everything? Absolutely not. Does it mean that your morals are the same as the person you voted for? Also absolutely not. Politics is usually voting against things you don’t want than voting for things you do. People are strange complex creatures, and you’ll never find a candidate who agrees with you. (Yes, even in multiple party scenarios).
If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice
Slow incremental change is the only change I’ve seen on this planet.
Only positive progressive change is slow and incremental. Regressives and authoritarians are able to pull off change pretty fast when they realize the system is too slow to stop them and won’t punish them for wrecking everything.
That is why it is important to vote in every election to mitigate the damage they want to do.
Good correction. Legislating is slow, rolling back is fast.
Wow. Your post is so reasonable, strongly in favour of rioting, correctly identifying it as better than voting, just allowing for voting. And still banned.
I’ve blocked a lot of PTB comms because of all the trolly libs calling anyone left of Schumer a tankie then whining about being banned from leftist spaces, but this is a bonkers ban. And from .world as well, not even a leftist instance. 🤷
To save folks a click:
Brace yourself for an apparently super edgy hot take:
Rioting > voting
rioting & voting > just rioting
just voting > nothing at all
Discouraging voting or rioting = supporting the status quo.
Discouraging voting or rioting = supporting the status quo.
To be silent in the face of oppression is to stand with the oppressor.
That’s… that’s it? What’s ban worthy about that?
I can’t disagree with that at all. I don’t think any reasonable person could.
I don’t see any rule you broke so this is a pretty open and shut PTB for me.
That said, no great loss since these LSC communities are all millenarian fantasy dumpster fires. Capitalism ain’t goin nowhere on its own.
the only leftists i’ve ever met that were serious people were the ones i’ve met in person. terminally online leftists just post through it and have nothing else. they post big endgame-level ideas, but if you ask them how they plan to get there, you get dogpiled and called a nazi. it’s roleplaying for attention on social media.
Capitalism ain’t goin nowhere on its own.
Well, sure it is. It’s going to fascism on its own.
(And I’d say, once you get into the full fascist stage, it’s no longer strictly speaking ‘capitalist’ anymore. I’d define capitalism as ‘rule by capital’, but once fascism gets sufficiently entrenched, that’s no longer really the case. At that point, power is no longer determined mainly by how much money you have, it becomes determined by your closeness and standing with the regime’s leaders. Having lots of money often facilitates that, but it’s no longer the primary driving factor – the primary driving factor becomes ideological purity/loyalty and political pandering to the regime. And even those with lots of money can still easily fall out of favor with the regime for any ideological misstep, any perceived threat to or disagreement with the leader, and even those with large amounts of money can still be purged from the regime at a moment’s notice. If it’s possible for the regime’s leader to suddenly decide he doesn’t like you, so then the regime takes your capital away and gives it to someone more regime-friendly, that’s not capitalism anymore.)
I personally doubt it will be replaced by fascism globally as it’s simply too unstable an ideology, despite some current trends in that direction.
Well, no – it will never be globally all at once, at least not in the current geopolitical landscape. It will happen to one country at a time. And then when that fascist country inevitably attacks its neighbors, fascism tries to spread that way.
Though I do wonder if, with the rise of globalism and powerful international corporations headed by fascist pricks, it might eventually end up being a more or less global phenomenon.
Yeah that’s not a serious community. Like I can understand why an anarchist would be vehemently opposed to voting, but a socialist? No. PTB.
Edit: and furthermore, if they’re so against voting, why haven’t they disabled both downvotes AND upvotes, and only use just the other sort algorithms?
Anarchist here: voting might be the least important, least effective action you take … but as long as the state still holds power, you should still do it.
Most anarchist are quite supportive of voting, they would just rather have a direct democracy. The real issue for most is hierarchy. Ofcourse, that’s not true for all anarchists.
Edit: and furthermore, if they’re so against voting, why haven’t they disabled both downvotes AND upvotes, and only use just the other sort algorithms?
Anti-electoralists are not necessarily against voting in literally all circumstances. We’re against voting for candidates for political office.
anarchist here. Absolutely against voting and especially against electoralism
Tell me, how would an anarchist self governed community make decisions as a group?
Exactly. Left-anarchist myself, and the only way is, surprise, voting. Voting and debating. Democracy, for god’s sake. A leader doesn’t necessarily means higher hierarchy; what it really means (or should mean) is just higher responsability with the capacity of fulfilling it.
I’m talking about electoralist voting, not voting in general. Check out our instance governance rules
Being banned from latestagecapitalism is an honor. They have conservative mods. You can be banned there for criticizing conservatism or saying things that are too far from Fox News talking points.
Not really sure how or why we end up with conservative mods in these communities, but it really ruins them.
They have communist mods, I think they’re Marxists. I’d respect you more if you at least said you’re against the “extreme left” or something like that instead of pretending that everyone who isn’t liberal is conservative or secretly conservative.
Tankie outreach community with mods that are pro Russia and censorship heavy. One of them loves responding to comments they’ve deleted. LW does nothing like usual in response to problematic moderators. PTB.
I find it weird how they remove comments of people with massive upvote ratios. Like arent those comments the community overwhelmingly agrees with? How are they justifying consistently censoring their community this way?
PTB just because of that
Rule 0
I have yet to see the posts punching left lately AND not following the comm rules be removed (note reflection on op not above image)
I… don’t think this user is punching left…
OP certainly is https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/28745948
Agreed, but I was referring to the person your comment directly replied to.
And I was agreeing that there’s been a flood of the same rule breaking posts all just punching left
Blue isn’t left?
No, the democractic party is overwhelmingly not “left.” They are the controlled opposition, in a game that the republicans are no longer playing, they are playing overthrow the republic, while the democrats are still playing oligarch monopoly.
The dems mission is to prevent moving left. Hopefully that will change but in any other country they’d be center right (like in the UK that has a liberal dems party)
It’s become a massive contention of people applying leftism to neo-liberals and calling them “the left” when they certainly are not. I feel the media purposely did this to help kill of any left wing ideology.
Who gives a fuck if it’s actual democracy. Vote for whoever has the best shot of keeping the greater evil out of office, and use that time to sharpen your guillotine. Again, you don’t need to pick just one.
Well you definitely broke rule 4:
4 No imperialism, conservatism, reactionism or Zionism, lessor (sic) evil rhetoric. Dismissing 3rd party votes or ‘wasted votes on 3rd party’ is lessor evil rhetoric.
YDI for being an annoying
, although maybe a permanent ban is a bit harsh."off-topic" about electoralism
They present as leftist, but flare up around US elections discouraging voter turnout via ‘bOtH siDeS’ garbage.
I’m sorry but what are you on about? Leftists are rightly “flaring up” in response to “Vote Blue”-types like you actually shitting up our spaces. You’re trying to guilt us into accommodating your individual incoherent liberal sensitivities. Well I’m done moderating my politics to be legible to liberals. If you really cannot stop yourself from going to the polls then at least shut up about them in revolutionary spaces.
And I’m coming at you as an anarchist, not a ML. We should be building dual power in direct opposition to the State and capitalism, not dancing in their fucking circuses! When you step into a revolutionary space and whine about voting, you suck out oxygen to discuss the thing we’re actually…here…to discuss!
You wanna go to the polls? Do it in shame and silence.
This ‘blue MAGA’ tankie shit is somehow worse than the loud-and-clear MAGA shit over on Reddit - at least those neonazis were honest about who they were.
Ayyy that’s a wild accusation coming from the person voting for one of the pro-genocide parties.
Also please vote. In addition to whatever flavor of activism tickles your fancy.
I would sooner saw my own head off. Death to
.Setting aside your incoherent off-topic tirade, I really don’t see how this would violate that rule. Advocating for voting in general is not inherently lesser evil rhetoric, nor did they say anything against third parties. So this seems pretty clearly not a violation of that rule.
Vote for whoever has the best shot of keeping the greater evil out of office
I fail to see how that’s not lesser-evil rhetoric.
incoherent off-topic tirade
It’s actually not incoherent; it’s a consistent if emphatic application of anti-electoralist anarchist analysis. You just don’t like what I have to say or how I say it.
I spoilered the stuff that doesn’t strictly have to do with the moderation action to declutter the feed, but I stand by what I said and how I said it.
And I usually try not to be this venomous towards electoralists, and I won’t be that venomous towards you…but this user called us (anti-electoralists) neo-nazis. That’s a very serious accusation which I will not take lying down!
Vote for whoever has the best shot of keeping the greater evil out of office
I fail to see how that’s not lesser-evil rhetoric.
That’s because you’re assuming the lesser evil is always the one in second place. If you don’t think any 3rds have the potential to break into that coveted political standing between the red and blue teams, that’s on you.
My posts only expressed hostility to MAGA, which summoned defensive tankies like a swarm of flies closing in on a freshly dropped turd. The longer I’m on this website, the more I’m noticing that behavior. It’s gotten to the point that I’m questioning if “tankies” are even a thing, or if that’s just a shitty attempt to conceal their red caps and klan robes under a poorly executed online persona for ‘lols’.
I digress - my suspicion of tankies is off topic, outside of their overt and consistent support for MAGA and ilk, which I did call out in the previous thread.
My posts only expressed hostility to MAGA, which summoned defensive tankies like a swarm of flies closing in on a freshly dropped turd.
I mean, what you said here was:
This ‘blue MAGA’ tankie shit is somehow worse than the loud-and-clear MAGA shit over on Reddit
Like it’s not only campists who use the terminology “blue MAGA”. Anarchists and other non-campist revolutionaries rightly use the terminology (although I would personally not label someone reluctantly going to the polls as “Blue MAGA”; I would use that term for someone more emphatic and supportive of the policies that liberal politicians are responsible for). Followed by
- at least those neonazis were honest about who they were.
Like can you see where I’m coming from here? If you really didn’t mean to call all anti-electoralists neo-nazis then… okay I guess, but that’s not how I read it.
Tbh, that’s really what motivated me to speak up. Like I’m willing to agree to disagree with my comrades about whether or not they individually show up to the polls, even though my viewpoint is emphatically against electoralism as praxis, but I (and I think some other people) read your post as if you were comparing your anti-electoralist comrades to neo-nazis.
It’s gotten to the point that I’m questioning if “tankies” are even a thing, or if that’s just a shitty attempt to conceal their red caps and klan robes under a poorly executed online persona for ‘lols’.
I mean, from an anarchist perspective … it’s not at all shocking that people have recognized that some hierarchies are unacceptable while not (yet?) realizing that the State is inherently one such hierarchy, which is itself responsible for maintaining those other hierarchies. For a different example, many liberals clearly recognize that racism and sexism and homophobia are unjustifiable hierarchies, to the point that some are even doing very noble work in stopping ICE…but they still have not figured out the underlying pattern (hierarchical social relations).
The campists you’re running into here are probably not Trump supporters. It’s just that…“America bad” is a correct answer 99% of the time, and 99% is good enough for some people to round it up to 100%. (And even in the 0.1% where it’s not the correct answer…it is true because America is bad, it’s just not a helpful answer.) IMO campism is a cognitive distortion, but it’s understandable where it comes from.
Like it’s not only campists who use the terminology “blue MAGA”. Anarchists and other non-campist revolutionaries rightly use the terminology (although I would personally not label someone reluctantly going to the polls as “Blue MAGA”; I would use that term for someone more emphatic and supportive of the policies that liberal politicians are responsible for).
I may be misusing the term? My understanding (gained entirely through context in posts like this discussion - so if it was misused in those cases, then I’m parroting an error) is that it’s kind of false flag effort to lure anyone left of the fascists currently running the country to dispersing their support to a wider array of easier-to-defeat opponents. Divide and conquer kinda situation. Idk if there’s any kind of ‘coined’ meaning, I thought it was just internet slang.
Like can you see where I’m coming from here? If you really didn’t mean to call all anti-electoralists neo-nazis then… okay I guess, but that’s not how I read it.
I do see where your coming from. And frankly I agree with a lot of it, which is why the idea of ‘blue MAGA’ (or whatever we’re calling the shit I described above) is getting me so worked up: it’s deceptive, with the goal of tricking actually decent people into supporting something awful.
In any case – All anti-electoralists? certainly not. Anti-electoralism isn’t what I have an issue with. You’re sick of being forced to choose any evil, lesser or otherwise. I get the fuck out of that. The state of our elections is abysmal, in which “vote for me because I’m not the other guy” is often the literal only selling point. It’s exhausting, it doesn’t work, it needs to go away. The shitty reality is that we’re in that system whether we like it or not; and the options presented within are NOT equal - one of those options of going full Nazi right now, and when I call MAGA Nazis, I’m not saying that as an insult, I’m saying they’re actually acting like Nazis. If we’re a given any power at all that be used against Nazis, we should use it whether or not we approve of the system it exists in.
In short, I agree with your disapproval of the process; it’s shit. I disagree with the notion that participating in voting is equal to supporting that system. We (collectively) need to be more strategic with our resources. Vote for the least shit option within a shit system; riot to break the system and reform it into something that’s actually humane.
recognized that some hierarchies are unacceptable while not (yet?) realizing that the State is inherently one such hierarchy
I kinda got ahead of myself with the previous paragraphs, but basically the same spiel here. There’s no shame in participating in a system that you’re stuck in anyway, especially if that participation can nudge it away from Nazism.
The campists you’re running into here are probably not Trump supporters.
…I mean, hopefully not. I try to give anyone the benefit of the doubt by default (although that’s feeling increasingly naive). Yourself included. What I have to question though, is what’s the goal? Especially here - Lemmy seems to be a mostly left-leaning space, so spreading notions of a false equivalence between Trump/his mini-Nazis, with <anyone left of Trump and his mini-nazis> is going to detract from the effort to oppose him. And even if you intend to engage in other more impactful, high-risk-high-reward activism, why skip the vote? Voting is way less effort and way less risk, and I can’t stress this enough, doesn’t stop you from any other action.
It’s just that…“America bad” is a correct answer 99% of the time, and 99% is good enough for some people to round it up to 100%. (And even in the 0.1% where it’s not the correct answer…it is true because America is bad, it’s just not a helpful answer.) IMO campism is a cognitive distortion, but it’s understandable where it comes from.
America bad. I get it. Let’s maybe try to make it not bad. Or at least less bad to start with. Discouraging voter turnout isn’t going to accomplish that.
Edit - I just saw the mod post here warning against soap-boxing about voting, which is 100% what you and I are doing. We should probably move this conversation to PMs if you want to keep it rolling. We’re getting way outside the scope of what I posted in LSC.
Did I miss a comment? The one I looked at did not say that. It just said voting is a good idea. I also did not see where they called anti-electoralists neo-Nazis. If that’s the reason they got banned it would make more sense.
But I was mainly sniping your tirade because we’re not supposed to be arguing with the comment here, we’re supposed to be discussing the rules and whether OP deserved to be banned. Whether we agree with them isn’t super relevant–although I guess it can be if we want to discuss whether given rules have merit or not, so maybe there is some gray area.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Anarchists are gonna shred you for the electoralism here.
Anarchist here. No I’m not.
i second that
Most are against voting.
Bullshit. The vast majority of anarchists do vote, because we aren’t idiots who need to be told to vote.
Why are you using sharp language? You have removed vote comments before.
Also, sorry for being short-tempered. I’m taking a break from modding this comm until after the midterms, since I find it very frustrating atm.
…um… whoops. I definitely feel responsible for adding fuel to that fire. What a shit time to be a mod.
Kinda feel like I owe you a beer.
It’s all good, it wasn’t this post in isolation. And sometimes disengaging from the fray and touching grass is the lesser evil :p
This community is self harm. I dunno why I unblocked it.
At least it’s not transphobic malding anymore.
Needs some custom css that encrusts the edges of page elements with salt from liberal tears.
Yes but only if they are off topic, or belittling others for daring to criticize the dems, or falsely claiming anarchists don’t vote. Sure, I’m sure there’s a few who don’t and that’s their prerogative. Anyway I’ll leave you to it.
Thank you for your perspective, let’s both disengage, have a good night.
being against electoralism is not necessarily being against voting (as long as you emphasize its extremely limited utility). admin unruffled last week proposed banning calling to vote* and was flamed to the point where they deleted their post
* it’s slightly more nuanced but the examples made enforcement look like that. i’ll need to head to my computer to explain. i’ll start with that it was more “you can’t say ‘not voting is a vote for Trump’”
Yeah because I knew it would one of these posts after another until election day. I give up. I’m not moderating these.
Hey I noticed you used wrong pronouns for unruffled there
admin unruffled last week proposed banning calling to vote* and was flamed to the point where
hedeletedhispostoh shoot sorry
Tbh I’m more pissed at OP’s implication that anti-electoralists are neo-Nazis. Like I see a hundred bellyaching posts a day about voting Blue and I keep my mouth shut for most of them because I have stuff to do and more productive stuff to talk about, but goddamn this one really fucked with me, and I thought Murse was at least cool enough to know better.
Nope.
Voting in general elections is by far the least effective thing you can do to initiate change for the better. But still not worthless when Diet Hitler and/or his goons are on the ballot.
They even mention voting for 3rd parties in their rules.
It’s .world. it’s just an extension of fascist reddit. Any other instance will offer different types of disappointment.
edit: lmfao @ the 9 @world fashies. this aint reddit you dumb cunts. the more you downvote here, the more cred. go back to spez and Starbucks.
