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Vegans don’t want you to not have fun in life. We want you to live your life and let others live theirs, too.
“You don’t eat the food I like, so you’re WRONG!!! 🤪” - 😂
I made tempeh and im really excited about it.
Good on you. I poisoned myself once because I used lemon juice instead of vinagre to lower the ph while making it.
Stick to the recipe, the ingredients and keep everything clean.
I have omnivore dentition. To take advantage of it I consume seitan through raw spinach through rare prime rib. The rest of you are welcome to dine on whatever.
Just eat less meat. You don’t have to go 0-100. Skip the patty, skip the filet. Double up on proteins. Dairy shouldn’t be an end goal but substitute the actual meat for dairy for at least some reduction. Pick the food that is vegan instead of the one using meat stock, etc. Little things here and there. Default to meatless, eat the damn meat if you absolutely have to. Increase this change over time, and make sure to add a vegan B12 supplement. 80% is better than 100%. 60% is better than 80% when you get there. Maybe someday you hit 0%. Achieve perfect through gradual change, don’t shun good if you can’t be perfect.
That’s the thing. If we could use less meat, use less cars, use less fossil fuels, we would all be happier. But me choosing to do these things sounds to people as just bending over for somebody else to use what I don’t use. I just want a happier lifestyle? I’m not doing it for politics or self sacrifice, I’m just taking a step backwarda and realizing that mcdonalds sucks, car commuting sucks.
But I will use the car when I need to go to the countryside and there is no BETTER alternative!
While I agree with the sentiment, I still struggle a bit with this rhetoric. When it comes to misogyny or rasicsm you wouldn’t tell someone to just try and do less of it. The meat & dairy industry is still a whole lot of abuse and exploitation, and I think everyone is probably on board with having nothing to do with it. The friction is just too high I guess.
The friction is precisely why I recommend start small. Better someone eat less meat and stick with it long term, than a full meat diet long term because they went completely meatless at once for a week or two and couldn’t handle it
comparing women and minorities to animals is what misogynists and racists do
And realizing that all humans are animals is what biologists do.
Analogies don’t prove anything, so we can play this game all day
Agreed.
When it comes to misogyny or rasicsm you wouldn’t tell someone to just try and do less of it.
Idk, these are very different things. If I think about how much I hate (some group) then I may be a racist based on that alone. If I don’t consume animal products but I fantasize about eating a cheeseburger I would still be a vegan.
Nobody is going to literally say “just do less racism” but in practice we often only deal with small parts of someone’s racism.
When it comes to misogyny or rasicsm you wouldn’t tell someone to just try and do less of it.
On a societal level that IS how we progress… Sorry but don’t let idealism block progress
Imagine someone being disturbed because you choose not to eat something. 🤣
I don’t care what people eat. I can genuinely go months or years without thinking about vegans. I never challenged any vegan, vegetarian or whatever other diet out there.
I have been bothered by vegans on multiple occasions including at restaurants more than once.
Do I even get a choice in the matter? I hat this town. J tried to escape with tofu, cant even sneakily become vegan.
Tldr: my jagged journey to being a shitty vegan started with admitting it was ethically superior and then just trying things for fun/challenge.
That was my attitude basically ever since I seriously thought about the ethics for maybe 10 whole minutes. I mean it’s obvious. But it didn’t impact anything I did until I lived on my own for a while. Then I started by cutting out the obviously reprehensible options like restaurants that support factory farming, cheap machine produced stuff, etc. I’d still eat trash from time to time, but I tried to shop for more ethical sounding options, like free to roam stuff.
Many years later I slowly started cooking vegetarian meals more than anything else, and would joke with my wife "look: totally vegan… Except for all the cheese lol. " 100% vegan meals then became a personal challenge then, so tried to make them good without cheese. Nothing bad happened.
I always said I could never be vegan because of cheese, but then I thought what if I JUST quit cheese and dairy (just obvious sources, but not like if it’s in a piece of toast and I can’t tell). Again nothing bad happened. Actually my vegetarian friends were really supportive and showed me lots of vegan dishes.
I still had eggs every day for breakfast and the occasional fish, like sardines or tuna sandwiches. I didn’t know how I could ever quit my morning eggs, and had even tried a couple times.
Then I saw a vegan thread on lemmy here and just asked someone what they ate for breakfast and they gave me a few ideas and I decided to try yet another tofu scramble and that just did it.
I did feel sluggish for a day or two, and maybe a little bit “off” for a week but not even as bad as a cold. Kind of like a hangover. I just stuck with it and ate a bit more to make up for any loss in nutrition, throw in a daily vitamin, and that was just it. And yup, nothing bad happened. Eventually I felt great. The whole time I guess it was just a couple sluggish days away from me.
I said maybe I’d eat meat or dairy just to be easy from time to time, but then Thanksgiving came and went and I really didn’t feel like it. I just brought lentil patties and ate some sides until I wasn’t hungry anymore. Easy peasy.
If anything I feel like going vegan has de-dramatised food and eating for me. It’s simple: you just eat nutritious food that makes you feel good, until you’re satisfied.
But I’m just at the outset. I don’t vet everything, I just don’t partake in anything that is made with animal products as far as I can tell, and as much as I easily can.
Non-vegans should support vegans, even if they continue to eat meat, because vegans drive better treatment of animals and also drive more attractive non-animal food options.
However, a person must have a brain and also not have meat eating tied to their masculinity.
Non-vegans should support vegans
What really drives me mad is that there’s a dead simple solution - lab-grown meat - that can obviously be the best of both worlds with a bit more development (and in fact is being commercialized already), but is being lobbied against by the meat industry precisely because it’ll be cheaper and better. And nobody seems to be talking about it.
Ecofeminism has a lot to say about meat/masculinity/fascism.
Everyone I know actually unironically feels this way lol and always comes to me for advice on going more vegan. Vegan hatred is a strong flea dip for me though, basically any% criticism of vegans ensures I will likely never speak to you again.
basically any% criticism of vegans ensures I will likely never speak to you again.
Tbh this is kind of a stupid behavior, if it’s a valid criticism i don’t see why you’d have to react like that
It’s not, because criticising “vegans” is done to avoid discussing veganism, which is objectively better than meat eating. This does not include people who say, argue whether starving people should eat meat to survive, which is not a criticism of vegans. I’m open to discussing any real life actual moral paradigms with reasonable people.
Basically you’re assuming it’s not purely coincidence. Plenty of my friends eat meat lol. They’re just rational and not the type of person who thinks I deserve to be cross examined for the actions of all people who are also vegan. People who act like I should like, idk, answer for PETA? My life has objectively improved by letting those bridges burn naturally. It’s done wonders for my mental health.
because criticising “vegans” is done to avoid discussing veganism
In that case it’s probably not a valid criticism
Basically you’re assuming it’s not purely coincidence
I am not gettin this, sorry
Maybe don’t be a bot that doesn’t understand the social connotations around being vegan? Idk lol you are getting blocked
No really i did not understood the phrase, english is my 2nd language so I do not understand some stuff…but i guess we gotta be rude :/
No its not fine to oppress others even if you know you are wrong to. You sound like a founding father who writes that slavery is wrong but brutally exploits slaves anyway.
Yup. The leftism leaves so many leftists’ bodies the moment animal liberation comes up. If you recognize the problem, don’t be complacent on the solution.
Unlike so many other rights struggles, basic veganism doesn’t require action, but rather the cessation of harmful actions. In that regard, it’s easier than taking action against other forms of exploitation: simply stop consuming animal products. Plant-based alternatives are readily available (I went vegan in a food desert) and are better for you than eating some poor animal’s flesh.
This was me and I still think it’s important to sit with this incongruity rather than try to weasel your way out of it with broken logic. Sit with the discomfort of being in conflict with your own ethical knowledge and let it work on you.
I’m not going to look down on someone who eats animal products even though they know better, because I was them not long ago. I know what it feels like to be on both sides of this, as do most vegans.
I would just urge them to keep thinking about it and trying in different little ways to reduce their reliance on animal products here and there.
If you’re open minded about veganism and the problems with animal farming you’re so much closer than you think to actually being able to do it yourself.
This was me and I still think it’s important to sit with this incongruity rather than try to weasel your way out of it with broken logic. Sit with the discomfort of being in conflict with your own ethical knowledge and let it work on you.
100% agree. That’s why I detest people that know it’s wrong, and then say things like what OP in the meme does about how you can “just be wrong” and “just live your life” at the expense of your victims. It’s not a personal choice when there are victims involved, and when you know there are victims and you have the ability to stop, you need to stop.
But when it comes to actually talking to people about this stuff, I agree with gently encouraging them to not run away from their cognitive dissonance and to follow those thoughts to their logical conclusions.
The biggest hurdle, is the meat-eating culture, and how it is the dominant one in many places, right now. People need certain mental strenght to go againt the culture around them, especially when they have been raised up with it, and not all have that. If all people around you are vegans, and it is considered the norm, a lot of people would become vegan too, just to fit in. As long as meat-eating is seen as normal and people are raised to believe it is normal, many people will continue, even if they agree vegans are right.
Be the change. We’d get nowhere if everyone lets that stop them.
Oh yes, absolutely. I was trying more to make a point, about how it is important to understand the reasons behind, if we want to affect that behavior.
Certainly I would have a hard time being vegan if I visited Korea for instance, but there are ways. I look at them as different difficulty settings.
Also, the ethos is to avoid harming animals as much as practicable which will vary by individual and situation.
You can be a shitty vegan, it’s not against the rules hehe. Like you can avoid obvious meat or dairy but not bother reading the fine print—that’s better than most people. Or you can try your best but then go eat your craving on the second Sunday of every month, or give yourself two Mulligans a week, or whatever you want. There really are no rules.
Though I’d argue that once you secure your sources of regular plant based food, it’s actually quite easy to just go all the way and stick with it.
I’m in this picture and feel pretty neutral about that.
One time I had a hardcore combo meth-heroin addict who was vegan who candidly told me something to the effect of ‘idgaf what I put in my body I just have a moral problem with the livestock industry’ and I was like ‘you know what, based.’ The core issue of that conversation was that dietary sent a roll with dinner and they were like ‘naaah I can tell by the texture they used cows butter’ and like many things in the hospital they’re probably right and also at least they recognized I had no way of fixing it.
In the era of awesome spices and sauces and wide ranging produce available year round there is very little reason to eat meat.
But also yummy & convenient
This is a super hot take so bare with me, but the conditions of a lot of vegan food production are also often harmful to the humans that grow the food (I’m talking blood produce) and the growth in popularity of certain superfoods have severely damaged the ecosystems that indigenous populations in the areas where they’re from depended on.
This is not to say being vegan is bad. It’s obviously proven to be better for the environment, and the way that animals are treated is absolutely inhumane.
This is to say however that we should be demanding sustainability in all our food consumption and respect for all living beings. But mostly, it’s to say fuck capitalism.
“Super foods” are kind of fucked, and that’s part of being a good vegan—researching and avoiding things that cause harm (as much as practicable). But those are more a thing in wellness clean eating fad diet circles. Most vegan staples are like rice, beans, pulses, and random veggies.
Nah, there are definitely some vegetarian and vegan foods (especially when we’re talking ultraprocessed foods) that are worse for the environment and worse for your health than just plain meat or cheese.
Genuinely which ones? Everything I can think of is better than meat. Largely because the cows eat a lot of food in the first place with most of it being wasted.
It’s been a good long while since I made my comparisons but i believe Quorn was worse than chicken (but not as bad as beef obviously). In Sweden we also have Anamma which used to be very good, but at some point they removed their classic formulations and suddenly added like 30% sugar to everything (and doubled the price for good measure). Not sure if they’ve walked that back by now, hopefully they have.
Oh you are talking about fake meat stuff, I was thinking of normal ingredients.
No, it’s the ultraprocessed stuff that can be pretty bad. But I think a lot of things have happened in the past decade during which there was also a huge focus on sustainability, so I think the market is better now than it used to be. I’m not up to speed anymore.
In the UK there’s a sweet maker called Candy Kittens. They make, like, vegan Haribo (only better) that tastes really really nice.
They’ve started making their own vegan peanut M&M’s. Instead of chocolate they use a shit ton of palm oil.
It’s “ethically sourced” palm oil, but that’s still a sour thought after you’ve devoured a whole bag of tasty sweet treats in one sitting. It’s still increasing the market capacity for palm oil, which in turn increases demand to destroy habitats eg orangutans in Indonesia and other SE Asian islands.
TL;DR palm oil is vegan.
Wait isn’t chocolate vegan though? Why substitute chocolate with palm oil?
Cocoa is vegan. Chocolate is usually made with milk products to make it more palatable. The chocolate in peanut M&M’s has milk in it, so they are not vegan.
Except these days milk is largely substituted with palm oil recipes, which is much cheaper, but creates a worse product (often described as waxy) while the industry producing it is tearing down virgin forests for farm land.
Ah, OK. I basically only eat dark chocolate so I forgot that “candy” usually is non-vegan.
Surely they meant the sugar in the chocolate, not the cocoa. But they could have been specific.
Not sugar, but milk products are typically used to turn cocoa into chocolate.
I’m doing more good as an antinatalist than any vegan
I’m doing both!
Not that it’s a contest :p
we should be demanding sustainability in all our food consumption and respect for all living beings
Hear hear.
Plants are living beings, also. The fact is, unless you photosynthesise, you likely have to consume another living being to survive.
What nearly everyone can agree on is that industrial farming practices are harmful. Not just to the living things we farm, but also to the consumers, who end up consuming a lesser product that is often contaminated by industrial processes that cut corners to save on cost.
I feel like you’re not getting the vegan ethos…
Maaan. That is me, with so many things. At least I’m moving in the right direction, or so I like to tell me.
Your getting ready for your moment to strike. I believe in you.
