For background on this topic without getting too specific, I’m an engineer and I typically work in an office. I’m younger and haven’t been in the work force for long but working in office spaces is driving me insane.
Now I understand that work isn’t supposed to be super fun, but I’d like to at least be able to tolerate it. So far I’ve spent a couple years in offices and it’s been miserable. I enjoy what I do as far as engineering. I like the topics, I like the productive parts of what I do. But I cannot stand office spaces. They’re uncomfortable and depressing environments for me.
I feel like spending time working from home would be ideal, but I’d like to hear people’s thoughts and if anyone else has had this experience. Is it something you just get used to?
A few thoughts:
- Look for a remote job?
- This one seems silly, but… care less about whether you are productive and focus on whether you are happy at work
- Have a discussion with your manager about how to mitigate the annoyances
- Also have a discussion with your manager about how to do more of the stuff you like
- Set stronger boundaries - a sign which says please do not disturb me when headphones are on for example may help to reduce small talk, if that’s something you don’t desire, and allows you to start/stop focus time. Talking with your coworkers about how best to interact with you like telling them that you prefer conversations start with an email thread, or a message on slack/teams/etc.
Things I like about working in an office:
- I liked my coworkers
- I liked going for random breaks to go walk somewhere or have lunch and get away from the desk
Things that sucked:
- Constant noise and distractions
- Small talk with people that I just don’t want to spend the mental energy talking to
- 1.5 hours worth of commute time that just eats away at my day
I’ve been remote working since Covid first landed. I will happily trade all the things I liked about working in an office to never have to deal with the parts I don’t like. If I can help it, I’ll always choose remote work. I get so much done here at home in both work and home stuff. Oh I forgot to do laundry over the weekend, no biggie. Oh I need to marinate something, boom 10 minute break. Finished all my planned work for the day? Going to knock off early and go play a game or watch a show.
Remote work has transformed my life and I’ll never go back to the office.
It’s interesting because I don’t mind some of those things. My commutes haven’t been bad, they’re 30 minutes out of my day and I enjoy the drive time. The small talk is minimal. And with noise I just put in earbuds.
My problem is more the uncomfy chair and desk setup, the lighting, the AC temp, just the general environment is not a productive one for me. Those things inhibit my work. Even just using the bathroom and having to tuck my shirt back in so I can walk back to my desk annoys me.
In most of my engineering jobs, we’ve had an allowance for office supplies, especially ergonomic improvements. I’ve seen people spend it on keyboards (usually an ergodox!) and mice, monitor arms, even entirely new standing desks. I also believe that some places have legal requirements for employers to provide ergonomic equipment to employees if requested. Maybe you could inquire about something like that?
But also, I’m 100% on team work from home. I don’t plan to ever go back to the office.
I hear ya on this. I think they’d help my experience but probably wouldn’t solve most of my main gripes. I’ll still check in on it though, thanks!
The bathroom was pretty bad at our old building. We had 4 floors with a couple hundred people on each floor, but the men’s room was just 2 urinals and 2 stalls for each floor. So if you needed that stall you often ended up having to go to multiple floors to find a bathroom stall that wasn’t already occupied.
The lack of privacy in general too. We had short cubicles with your monitors facing outward so anyone could see what you were looking at at any given time. If I wanted to take a 10 minute break to look at some reddit (beehaw now) I’d often feel like I’m going to get caught and spoken to.
I feel the same. My back is always to the open room and it gives me anxiety about taking short breaks
Think of the chair as an investment if you pay for it out of pocket. I also work for an engineering firm in an office environment and complained about the chairs for years. The safety guy in charge of ergonomic assessments would end up getting me a replacement chair that was identical to my previous chair so I finally gave up on trying that route. I eventually went to a commercial showroom and found a chair that I liked (was a $1200 chair with a 10 year warranty). I followed my company’s written policy to get all of the approvals to bring in outside equipment (P&O, my supervisor and the safety guy). They all said I was being ridiculous, but the chair was non-refundable so I wanted to make sure I didn’t get told no after the fact. I purchased my chair in 2019 and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. When everything shifted to home in 2020, I was one of the few people from my company that had proper office seating at my home office. A good chair that breathes (or doesn’t) can also help with the A/C issues. My logical conclusion was $1200 on a chair is an investment in my health. My back feels better at the end of the day. I don’t spend money on regular chiropractor visits. Assuming it lasts for at least 10 years since the warranty is 10 years, it’s only $120/year.
I agree with pretty much everything here.
My employer is a regional organization, so all our meetings were via Zoom/WebEx/whatever before COVID. Our pivot to remote work was trivial - those that could already had the tools at their disposal (and were likely using them already), those that couldn’t were healthcare providers and had a whole different experience anyway.
I do end up going in once in a while, because it’s only 10 minutes away from home and I already have to drive kids past the office anyway. But once my younger child is in school this fall, I’m not sure how things will change. I won’t have a need to get up early every day, so I might go in less, and possibly work earlier hours.
I’m very surprised that we allowed remote work to continue, but we actually embraced it and made it the standard. We downsized our office space (let the lease expire), and remodeled the space we kept. It’s been good, though it has exposed a lot of issues with our onboarding process. But that’s nothing we can’t work through.
I did 6 months using my electrical engineering degree working for a provincial power utility. Every day felt like Office Space, and I could feel myself aging with every day. Soul crushing experience categorized by florescent lights and grey quarter cubicles.
I no longer use my electrical engineering degree and my life is much better.
Welp, EE student here.
Wish me luck.
The important part is the company, tbh. I’d be using my degree if I lived somewhere I could do electronics work.
Do you live somewhere very rural?
No, just a smaller 800k person city with no real electronics community. There are 3 electronics shops here and they’re smaller and not really companies I want to work for.
I make better money in software anyways.
Why shouldn’t work be fun? Why is there an expectation of misery in exchange for living?
Why shouldn’t work be fun?
Of course work is miserable. If it was fun happy rainbow puppies all day, we wouldn’t call it “work”, we’d call it a “pastime” or a “hobby” Demand for that kind of “job” would be through the roof. There’d be waiting lists on applications and the wages would be near-nonexistent.
We get paid to do it because it sucks. Maybe not all of it sucks, but enough of it sucks that nobody wants to do it for free, for the love of the craft, for the personal betterment, or whatever.
Even people who work at the circus don’t say “Bye, honey, I’m off to spend the day at the circus!”, they say “Bye honey, I’m off to work.”
…or maybe “don’t work a job you don’t love!” is some white-collar thinking that I’m too blue-collar to understand.
Nah man. There’s nothing inherently shitty about work. Work is energy put to use. My garden is work. Painting the house is work. And my job, which is growing food, is work. And I really like my job. I like being outside, I like solving problems, interacting with plants and animals. The hours can be intense at times, and I’ve currently got blisters on the palms of my fucking hands, and I make very little money, but it is work and it is not shitty.
The problem is not that work sucks, the problem is that the types of work and the environments in which work is done in our industrialized, financialized, capitalist society are often alienating, dehumanzing, useless, destructive, boring, and pointless.
People finding work “miserable” is not an inherent property of work (which is doing something useful) or even of jobs (which is doing something supposedly useful for money). It’s an indication that something has gone wrong with our society.
ove of the craft,
People finding work “miserable” is not an inherent property of work (which is doing something useful) or even of jobs (which is doing something supposedly useful for money). It’s an indication that something has gone wrong with our society.
I have a hard time believing this.
Sure, maybe some people love landscaping, or coding, or whatever. But who’s got a passion for forklift driving? Who loves fighting rush hour traffic in a dump truck that, when empty, weighs 13.25 tons, with the pressure of knowing that any small mistake could result in the loss of your CDL and your entire livelihood? Are there actually people out there who would pick boxes in a warehouse freezer even if they weren’t getting paid? Are there people who are just thrilled to go empty bedpans for dying old people? Is running a cash register a “calling” for anyone? Is there a subset of folks who just love it when somebody tries to haggle over a nickel, using a 3-year-expired competitor’s coupon for a different product as their negotiating leverage, while a line of angry people backs up behind them? Have you ever met anyone who’d go around pumping septic tanks as a hobby if they couldn’t make money at it?
I’d venture to guess that the majority of working-class jobs almost entirely comprise piles of misery and shit. Even if there are people who honestly enjoy doing things like 'nam-crawling through 2" of mud in a 12" crawlspace to fix a complicated bit of homeowner DIY plumbing dumbassery, there aren’t nearly enough of them to fill society’s need for those jobs. The number of people who get off doing cold-calls for a collection agency is nowhere near the number it takes to fill the call centers. Someone is always going to have to be doing a dangerous, awful, body/mind-breaking occupation that gives them only a slight spark of joy when the check comes on payday.
There is significant middle ground between loving something and finding it miserable. And yeah, believe it or not, but plenty of tradespeople take pride in their work.
I’m starting to think you’re going well out of your way to intentionally miss my point, so I’m going to disengage now.
I’m not saying it can’t be, but work usually isn’t “fun” or entertaining or whatever. I’m not saying it should or needs to be painful, just at least neutral or somewhat fulfilling in my life. I want to not hate it basically.
I have been 100% virtual since COVID. I love not commuting but it can be very isolating. At this point I am fairly certain I may not ever work in an office again. Alot of it has to do with the people you work with. I had one job where the entire team of 13 people turned over within a year. I was the first one in on the “new team” so to speak. Being that we were all learning on the job together, and we were a unique group of humble and hard working people, we developed a bond very quickly and hung out regularly on weekends. It was like going to work with your friends everyday, and no matter how hard things got, we found a way to get through it. Best job I ever had and I had to commute an hour each way for it.
How many offices have you worked in? I’ve worked in 3. They’ve been different. I loved my first office bc I was 10 ft from the industrial tools I worked on. My second office was ok, bc there was a big window and was easy to drive to. My current office sucks bc they’re not repairing the building: the carpet is old and stained, the paint is flaking off, and the gym and cafeteria are 5 miles away at the main campus. Every company is different.
From your post and your comments, it sounds like your work environment isn’t comfortable. The other topic I was expecting was that you didn’t find job satisfaction, but you didn’t say that at all.
Comfort in the workplace is something many women struggle with and working from home was liberating. If the temperature is wrong, or your seating isn’t comfortable or you don’t feel like you can take appropriate length breaks at the office, these are classic problems that need reform in the office. Humans aren’t built to sit and make small movements on a keyboard and mouse all day, it breaks you.
I encourage you to look into work reform and workers rights. You aren’t alone on this. Don’t buy into the “work isn’t supposed to be fun” thing. Work should. Matter and you should want to work, if you don’t, that is the fault of the employer, not you. I worked stupid jobs and was abused by the system for 8 years before I was able to find a tolerable place, I’m still recovering years later from frustration and burnout.
Bullshit jobs by David Graeber is a great read.
You should do what you need to do to make your work environment more enjoyable for you.
- Talk more or talk less about non-work stuff with your co-workers, depending on if you like chatting and if your co-workers like chatting.
- Request a new/better chair, or get a new chair and expense it if you can. The right chair can make a real difference in how comfortable you feel at work.
- Stand up and take 1 minute breaks on the half hour to hour, to clear/refresh your head and stretch. People in decades prior took smoke breaks all the freaking time.
- Wear comfier clothes within the dress code: Stretchier stuff, comfortable belts, womens fashion I don’t have experience with so I can’t offer anything helpful.
- If it’s too cold, wear another t-shirt or under garment (or 2 if it’s freezing) under your shirt/dress. If it’s too hot get a fan and/or short sleeve dress shirt.
- Request another monitor from IT. For me, it makes work a lot easier because going between screen was extremely annoying to me.
- Bring your own keyboard, mouse and earbuds (with your manager’s permission). Maybe try to avoid clicky (blue) switches, but more focus on what’s ergonomic and comfortable for you.
- Add a tasteful trinket or two of stuff you find interesting to your desk. Like photos or mini figurines.
- Get permission to WFH for a portion of the week.
- If your manager is annoying, try to negotiate, otherwise move to another division or get a new job. That can’t be fixed easily.
Finding a WFH gig seems the best route. If that’s not possible in your field then go and be a field tech, and get the field experience while you’re young. I know geotechs have drilling and CPT testing programs that can keep you very busy
Retire. I know flippant. Seriously though anything you do over 40 hours a week outside of sleeping is not going to be fun. Also 90% are the same in the sense that you spend 50% or more of your time not doing the particular stuff you like but instead going to meetings, doing required training, fitting your stuff into required methodology. Tracking and documenting things. WFH does help a lot. I take a one hour lunch pretty much every day and walk my dog along with prep and eat a nice meal. I find when I have a block of time its much easier to completely focus on my work compared to in office. Then of course you also don’t have the annoying commute. That really makes a difference in quality of life while working.
Not sure how this came across in the post but I’m not talking about being lazy. I’ve actually enjoyed many parts of my job even with the mundane meetings and documentation. I don’t enjoy the massive time wasting involved in most offices.
I prefer to be busy. What I don’t enjoy is the discomfort, poor lighting, bad layout, etc. Its like modern managers think that handing out standing desks like candy is going to make offices preferable to literally anything else.
And yes, I can manage some of this by bringing my own keyboard and getting a better chair. But realistically, every office culture I’ve encountered so far just sucks the soul out of me. A few months in and I’ll just be watching the time begging for lunch to come. I’ll go home and have two hours of daylight left to myself.
It seems like WFH is the option. I just don’t get how anyone does this without being absolutely miserable.
Im not talking about being lazy either but I will tell you that wfh does not prevent the massive time wasting. unfortunately. still I rather eat what I have at home and walk my dog on lunch than run out to a fast food place and love not having the commute. then add using your own bathroom and petting my dog whenever I want and it is a whole lot better to be wfh.
WFH Pros:
I get more sleep now
you can poop in your own toilet and use nice toilet paper.
See your family and pets more
A more comfortable environment
You can see natural light (i think this has helped me a lot. It was really stressful living in darkness all the time. I have no idea how night shift workers stay alive.)
Woah colors all around you
Save money and sanity as you don’t have to commute
WFH cons
If you value face to face interactions then that might be difficult
You might need to invest in some equipment
Some people find it hard to work where they live/sleep as they have a hard time separating work and relaxation spaces.
Some places could expect more work from you and think that if you’re at home you can work anytime.
Edit: i cut out my personal experience. To sum it up I found working in an office absolutely miserable and isolating. Often I didn’t get to see the sun or would only see the beginning of the sunrise for a few minutes during my commute.
I totally agree with the light situation but in the opposite direction, I love being able to keep my work space lit gently when it’s dark in the evenings rather than the ultra-cool mini-stars of blinding revelation most offices like to install for lights.
I’d suggest asking your employer if you can get some kind of flexible schedule agreement. For me, working in the office was never about the office itself, but the hours. The M-F 9-5 is a life-sucking drain that I never learned to tolerate in all my 30+ years of full-on adulting.
Once though, I worked a cubicle job where due to the nature of the work, I was able to work all my 40 hours in just 4 days per week and one of those days was only a half day. That consolidation of my personal time was enough to make me not loathe going in to work everyday.
If it’s possible for you to work four 10-hr shifts or maybe work less than 40 hrs / week, it might make a difference in how you feel
Why shouldn’t work be fun? Why is there an expectation of misery in exchange for living?
Stupid question in this case. Some shit quite literally needs to get done.
What type of engineer?
If you’re a software engineer, then you can probably start to look around for remote work. You will also have the luxury of looking at tech companies that also have nice offices and campuses that aren’t soul sucking cubicles.
“They subsidize lower prices by paying employees less,” he says. “If you aren’t tipping, you are taking advantage of that labor.”
The prices aren’t lower, though. They charge just as much as the rest of the western world, yet pay their workers less, and expect customers to pay even more to make up the cost the employer is evading.
The only person taking advantage is the employer. The customer is being screwed, the worker is being screwed, all to pad the employer’s pocket. And yet the system pits the customer and the employee against one another.
I think this got posted on the wrong place. Look at OP 's post. It’s about how offices depress them, not tipping.
You’re right, my bad, posted in the wrong window.