hey everyone. if you want to post links or discuss the Reddit blackout today, please localize it to this thread in order to keep things tidy! Thanks!

  • It’s disappointing seeing people cave so quickly when under the slightest inconvenience. It doesn’t matter for me, though - I’m not going back. If anything, this has helped me realize the unhealthy relationship I had with Reddit and was a good way to break that.

    To new and better things.

    • Stayed off Reddit completely for the last 2 days but checked back in in a couple of the smaller subs I browse today. But I have found I am checking back in here on Lemmy more even now that all the Reddit subs I usually post in are back open. This really feels like a viable alternative to me.

      • I’ve also stayed off reddit so far, but doing so taught me something. I’m definitely addicted to scrolling reddit on my phone. The number of times I just opened reddit on reflex and then caught myself and killed the app was insane. Even if there’s a miracle and reddit changes their ways, this is something I should probably address.

    •  DarkBug   ( @Darkbug@lemmy.one ) 
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      191 year ago

      I tried the official app a few times before the api announcement and can’t stand it. I’m supporting the blackout and if RIF dies, I will be done with reddit for good. I will miss the mass amount of knowledge.

    • Hi welcome. Have fun with it! It’s new, it’s exciting. It’s less developed but that just leaves tons of room for growth and polish! Reddit was over saturated and stagnant. Embrace the relatively empty pond!

    • I put the Lemmy web app shortcut where my Rif app used to be on my phone, so my muscle memory from always opening up rif has me going to lemmy instead. I’ve barely been looking at reddit at all and really enjoying seeing these lemmy communities grow. Once rif is gone I don’t plan to use reddit at all (aside from the occasional specific Google search for “specific question reddit”) and I don’t think I’ll miss it.

  •  BobQuasit   ( @BobQuasit@beehaw.org ) 
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    1 year ago

    I just posted this in response to a frenetic YouTube video that claimed that the Reddit protest “failed”:

    Get serious. It was NEVER going to stop the IPO. But it has accomplished something even more important: it has decapitated Reddit. A lot of the most passionate and involved users are gone, and more of them have at least tried Fediverse alternatives like Lemmy and kbin. Have you checked those sites out? They’re FLOODED with Reddit refugees, and the communities there are booming! They’re active and vibrant, with great discussions and content.

    What’s more, they have hope. The members there aren’t subject to some psychotic money-grubbing corporation; if any one server goes authoritarian, there’s nothing stopping the users there from just moving to another. They’ll have the same access and functionality. And frankly, the odds of a Fediverse server going corporate and having an IPO are infinitesimal. It simply wouldn’t be worth it, particularly since there’s no way they could stop other instances from defederating with them.

    So the outcome of the blackout has been twofold: First, Reddit has lost some of it’s best. The quality of content there is diminished, and will continue to diminish as poor quality drives users away. And second, the Fediverse alternatives have been given a huge boost. Almost all users of Reddit are now aware of the ugly truths that underlie that service, and that there are alternatives out there.

    That’s not failure. That’s the seeds of success.

    And by the way, I think that’s one thing we can all do to help bring down Reddit: mention the great alternatives out there as much as possible to spread the word. The more Redditors who learn that they don’t have to be a product to be sold by the pound for the stockholder class, the quicker Reddit will fall!

    • I also bet there are people who haven’t already left that will abandon ship once the TPAs stop working. It’s not going to be fun getting stuck with their mediocre app, particularly since they seem to be testing the end of the mobile site.

      • This. For a lot of people Reddit isn’t reddit.com, it’s Apollo or Relay or Sync or Reddit Is Fun.

        After the apps stop working, they won’t be able to keep using the thing they’re used to. They can’t just go back, they’ll have to switch to something different.

        • I stopped using Twitter when they pulled this API crap, and as a Boost user, I won’t use reddit when I can no longer use Boost.

          Currently using Jerboa for beehaw and I’m liking it so far, and the dev seems really responsive to user requests. Excited for the communities to get some traction moving forward!

      • I imagine there’s a meaningful amount of users that only exist in the context of the third party apps, that will disappear after the apps lose support. I’m sure most of them are lurkers, but that’s still something.

  •  Anon2971   ( @Anon2971@beehaw.org ) 
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    1 year ago

    It’s disappointing to see some of the larger subreddits going public with a ‘what’s the point?’ tone. Most are staying private, but some aren’t. As if Reddit doesn’t exist solely because of its user generated content. If enough subs permanently shut down they’ll have to reconsider their API position.

    I decided to write a message to subreddits I’ve been lurking for years via messaging the mods saying how vitally important it is for subreddits to protest right now, at this critical time, before it’s too late. I’ve politely implored them to continue the protest saying how these API changes with have a long-lasting, permanent impact on Reddit as a platform for the worse.

    I’d suggest you guys come up with your own letter template and message the mods of those subreddits in polite form. It’d be great if we can convince these exceptions to go private again. I also understand some moderators may be afraid Reddit will just replace them with mods willing to reopen the sub, so I added a section saying it they’re treated like that, Reddit don’t deserve their time and maybe they should consider rebuilding elsewhere if that happens. Its their prime chance to stand up for the right thing right now for the future of Reddit.

    I used Reddark to determine which subreddits to contact. I’d say only contact hobbyist ones such as sports rather than more politically-inclined ones like Ukraine that have a fair reason to stay open. Also some subreddits have made poll posts asking their users if they should go private like Gaming and NotTheOnion, so please don’t message those ones.

    •  jay   ( @lunarshot@beehaw.org ) 
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      361 year ago

      I agree with everything you’ve said and that it is disappointing. I do think there is merit in continuing to protest and send a message.

      However, I don’t think there’s anything that can move the Reddit leadership team back. Because even if they went back on this API issue, the continued process of the degradation of reddit as a service has been a long term thing. It seems to me that the Fidelity downgrade of their evaluation has pushed them even further down this path.

      I truly am done with them. Even if they come back from all this, what’s left there? Somebody else pointed out that over the year, generally interactions became more unfriendly on reddit, spam and changes to the algorithm increasingly pushed away from the platform we all loved.

      I see this situation and how it was so exacerbated by Spez and the leaderships absolute failure as a blessing. There’s a lot of alternative ways to spend time on the internet, to connect and learn. Beehaw has been really good to me the last couple days, I am excited for a future here and ready to not contribute toward the mess that reddit has become anymore.

      • It’s become increasingly clear that Steve and his cronies are desperately trying to get Reddit to its IPO with value intact so they can cash out and leave someone else holding the bag. As I’ve said elsewhere, I wouldn’t be surprised if he and others end up shorting Reddit.

        • If he does, that’s insider trading and wildly illegal. Not saying he won’t, just that the ethical thing to do would be to treat Reddit as a Conman’s scheme and withdraw any value you’ve put into it sooner rather than later. Reduce the IPO value by not going back

      • I’m excited to see how these new platforms flourish too. Even if Reddit do eventually concede and they drop their API pricing, the writing is on the wall. They’ve shown how little they care about the community that uses their platform. I’ll likely be leaving Reddit permanently, but I want to know I’ve at least done everything in my power as a long-time user to protest their awful decisions.

    • What the big subreddits don’t realise is, on Fediverse many of their subreddits have not yet been recreated. If they don’t do it, someone else will and then they come in as just contributors. So may be in their interests to actually establish a presence, and gauge how much take-up they get.

    • I was wondering if I should delete all or leave some of my posts, but seeing subs I subscribed to come back was what made me decide to just wipe everything. Can’t do anything about the mods or what other users do, so felt like deleting stuff was the one tiny bit of control I had over the situation. Which itself is nothing, but at least it’s something.

        • Note that it might take a while though, so if anyone wants to get this done before the 30th (so you can use API-based tools to wipe comments), request it ASAP.

          I requested…maybe two weeks or so ago? And it only came through today. So get to it y’all

      • I’m planning to wait and see what happens on June 30th before I do that. Over the years I’ve made some educational posts on music production that I still occasionally get messages about, so I’ll be manually going through my content to decide what to preserve and what to delete. I’m glad I’m not someone who decided to post a lot over my many years of Redditing or I would be in for a long dig lol (if you’ll pardon the pun RIP Digg).

    • Yeah I don’t have a strong opinion about whole API access controversy but it does spark a greater debate about how we let centralized services like Reddit subsume the Internet forum culture of old. Of course, Reddit in many ways is a superior product to the decentralized forums of old (you only need one account to post) but at the same time, this whole protest has proven especially damaging to people who rely heavily on Reddit as a resource for support (like the mental health subreddits, the chronic disease ones, etc.).

      • This is just me, personally, but I hate Reddits stance on the API situation about AI learning, and how it’s not profitable to offer the data for free. Excuse me, the data doesn’t even exist without the users. I get we are all data-harvested, but to completely pull the rug like this is unforgivable. I mean the TPA’s were the only way I interacted with Reddit. For me, it’s not about the ads, the money or anything, it’s deliberately killing the TPA to drive their profits up. I mean fuck, I’d pay a subscription to access reddit if it kept TPA open. But nah, gonna act like they earned my data and are entitled to it, no thanks.

        This is probably a dumb comment, sorry. I can’t word very well and I don’t usually get out what’s going through my head

    •  pbjamm   ( @pbjamm@beehaw.org ) 
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      641 year ago

      This was a predicted outcome, at least for the larger subreddits. Expect to hear much more of this in the coming couple of days.

      Gods of the Internet, with this offering I ask you to summon Cerf, Torvalds, and Stallman so that they may witness this curse. By the spirits of my ancestors I curse Reddit. Let its profits wither. Let its networks crack. Let it see its legions of users disperse. Gods of the Inferno, I offer to you its networks, its mouthpiece, its servers, its “free” speech, its hands, its liver, its black heart, its stomach. Gods of the Inferno, let me see Reddit suffer deeply, and I will rejoice and sacrifice to you.

    •  asukii   ( @asukii@lemmy.world ) 
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      231 year ago

      Welp. Wish I could say I was surprised. Time for the handful of power mods still licking admin boots to get even more subs under their belt, I guess. No way that could possibly end badly…

  •  TauZero   ( @TauZero@mander.xyz ) 
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    611 year ago

    I am fascinated by how the experience of other people can be completely different from mine, alien even. We can look at the same situation and come up with exactly opposite conclusions. I keep trying to put myself in the shoes of the other, figure out how they think. The behavior of u/spez is abhorent to me, but here’s how I would imagine he thinks about the community list of demands:

    <AH mode>

    Bringing the API pricing down to the point ads/subscriptions could realistically cover the costs.

    The costs are reasonable and down to earth! We’ve been extremely generous. Our prices are in line with industry standards. The app devs are greedy and do not want to pay. In fact they are so greedy they are choosing to shut down and go out of business rather than pay their fair share! Also some apps are ahem inefficient. Those devs could stay profitable if they just code their apps better.

    Reddit gives the apps time to make whatever adjustments are necessary

    The apps had plenty of time. We’ve been perfectly transparent. The API changes were announced months in advance. The first bills do not arrive until months from now in August, and are not due for another month after that. The apps have enough time if they are serious about working with us.

    Rate limits would need to be per user+appkey, not just per key.

    Rate limits are for the free tier. The paid tier is a flat fee per 1000 API calls without rate limit.

    Commitment to adding features to the API; image uploads/chat/notifications.

    We are always working on new and exciting features! We have so many mod tools in the pipeline. All the hottest features will appear in our native app first, which is where we can best ensure everything stays compatible. Have you tried using that?

    Lack of communication. Why were disabled communities not contacted to gauge the impact of these API changes?

    We are always in communication with our communities! We’ve been discussing these API changes for months, collecting community input, and interacting with our users in AMAs!

    You say you’ve offered exemptions for “non-commercial” and “accessibility apps.” Despite r/blind’s best efforts, you have not stated how they are selected.

    We communicate with developers on an app-by-app basis. We have already confirmed the inclusion of two accessibility apps! We support accessibility for blind people!

    Parity in access to NSFW content

    Cannot be done for lawyercat reasons.

    Now that we have addressed all of the listed community concerns, we are looking forward to welcoming all of you back to reddit!

    </AH mode>

    P.S. the fact that u/spez specifically stated that “old.reddit.com isn’t going anywhere” confirms in my mind that old.reddit will be gone within 9 months. Screenshot this.

    •  nyander   ( @nyander@beehaw.org ) 
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      1 year ago

      Cannot be done for lawyercat reasons.

      I can’t say for sure, but I suspect they are trying to push nsfw in-house for the sake of monetizing it. Nsfw drives quite a bit of traffic, and with the falling out of Imgur, Reddit itself has become the primary host. They just can’t state their intentions publicly because Reddit has a bit of problem with non-consensual material.

    • Man, I read your word vomit like 4 times, I believe you are right about all of it.

      I read all of the apps threads about why they’re quitting on the 30th, for Apolo which has already charged its users he would have to foot the costs the whole time until the next subscription re-up for many/most of his users, and we’re supposed to believe the reddit guys?

      For others, even the ones that want to make it work with added subscriptions, the lack of full reddit access via the API makes one wonder, what’s the point of even trying?

      Reddit has been an awful site for nearly 20 years, the only thing that made it usable was third party apps.

      I’m not sure I’m going to miss it, I hated it before 3PA, and I’m willing to hate it again now.

      The only thing I’m going to miss is world news updates and stuff that is here, the volume is basically muted in comparison.

  • Many subreddits are holding polls on whether they should continue the blackout. For those who are boycotting Reddit, I would highly encourage you to go vote. Even if you plan to leave Reddit for good, a longer blackout will drive more users here.

    • On many subreddits that have polls, it seems like a majority favor keeping their subs open. It seems like the userbase is generally ambivalent or even hostile towards the protest at large.

        • IDK I also see plenty of posts supporting keeping subs closed too. I doubt a lot of people have left the site for good. But those voices are generally outnumbered by people who don’t understand what’s going on or don’t care about the protest.

          Don’t get me wrong… Lemmy is fine, but I am finding that most of the active posts here are about the protest on Reddit… plus a few discussions on current news and gaming… but little else. I am still spending most of my time on Reddit.

          • The Reddit drama is still the hotness right now, but soon maybe 2 months into the future it won’t be as new and you won’t see it as much.

            I think this newest wave of decentralization is a good thing. Though we might lose knowledge held in those niche subreddits that choose to not go back that knowledge will inevitably migrate somewhere else.

      •  Pepper   ( @Pepper@beehaw.org ) 
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        151 year ago

        Asking the people still posting/commenting if they want a subreddit to stay open seems kind of pointless. Of course they want it to stay open, they didn’t care for the blackout in the first place.

  • I don’t know how to make this not about me. So, I’m just going to say it. Friday I closed a 13 year old Reddit account. Saturday and Sunday I brought up multiple Fediverse servers. I now have Mastodon, Lemmy, PixelFed, Owncast, and NextCloud working. I have yet to get Element Chat and PeerTube running. They will happen by Friday. When I opened my Owncast I killed my Twitch account. When PeerTube is up and running I drop YouTube. My point is, I want to thank Reddit for providing me the motivation to leave corporate social media and switch to my own platform. I’m not going back… I’m going forward.

    • They’ve now added that “non-commercial” qualifier to accessibility apps and mod tools. So they’re totally cool with 3rd parties adding value to their platform. As long as all of the revenue resulting from that unpaid work goes straight to Reddit.

    • I like how they state the following:

      As of July 1, 2023, we are increasing the API limits for our free API usage from 60 to 100 Queries Per Minute for those using OAuth authentication.

      They’re making it sound like they’re increasing the rate limit, whereas they’re actually changing it from 60 queries per user per application per minute to 100 queries per application per minute. So if you had a 3rd party app with 1000 users, you’d have 60 queries each minute for every single user, now all those 1000 users will have to share 100 queries each minute (so that’d be 1 query per user every 10 minutes), unless the app developer is willing to pay up.

  •  jay   ( @lunarshot@beehaw.org ) 
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    1 year ago

    This situation made very clear what writing is on the wall for reddit. I don’t care if people go back, it hasn’t been the reddit I knew and cared about for a long time.

    To all the people saying “oh well this won’t replace reddit,” I wouldn’t want it to. Reddit has changed.

    Here’s to new beginnings

  •  books   ( @books@beehaw.org ) 
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    1 year ago

    The way Reddit has handled this has been so disappointing. Aaron Swartz been rolling over but man look what Reddit has become. I believe now more than ever that any site that revolves around a community should be in the hands of said community and not corporations or else this eventually happens. Corporations need to produce profit to survive but when we’re talking spaces for open discussion that more often than not works against the very community that makes up the content.

    • I believe now more than ever that any site that revolves around a community should be in the hands of said community and not corporations or else this eventually happens

      This is how it used to be before the internet for most people basically became five websites run by enormous faceless data mines. Forums/bulletin boards/IRC channels used to be run by the community for the community and in my opinion the internet was better for it. Sure you’d get the odd flame war or power-tripping mod, but it was super common for a large portion of the community to just up sticks and start a new forum somewhere else if it became too much of a problem. Then Reddit killed most of the hobbyist forums stone dead. There’s nothing to go back to so we have to start fresh. But honestly, I’m here for it. I’m tired of being the product for a bunch of advertisers. Take me back to 2004.

      • In 2004 I was still running a Usenet server. Online games were run by the community too. I spent so much time on MUDs.

        It seems like now we are in this cycle where someone builds something shinier and fancier, it briefly becomes the next best thing, and then they find out it can’t make money (or just survive) unless it becomes significantly worse, and then the next best thing appears. But because of all the steps back there is little real progress. Lemmy too is, functionally, not that different from Usenet. It has pictures and votes and is generally more modern. But what I see highlighted in contrast to reddit is that it’s distributed. Like Usenet. It’s not supposed to be a breakthrough but after reddit it feels like one.