SEE SECOND EDIT DOWN BELOW
Lets not beat around the bush here, lots of people like to look at boobs and dicks.
Lemmynsfw was looking like a good place to go, but reading the “Loli” announcement thread where they equate drawn child porn to petite women, its clear the owner is not the right person to be hosting a NSFW instance for the majority of people.
Is there anywhere else that people can recommend?
There is undoubtably a need for such an instance. Can we discuss this like adults?
edit: UPDATE
I’m taking it as a backtrack, but it’s still not an instance I want to associate with.
Lots of people keen to offer their opinion of drawn picture of naked kids, haven’t seen any alternatives though
Edit 2: At this point I think their updated rules are good. It took a bit to get there, but in the end they appear to be taking a hard stance. Hopefully this is enforced.
I dont think it was a case of “whoops bad English” like they are suggesting, I think it was a total 180 backflip. This doesnt really instill confidence in the admins IMO, but im happy that they have made the right decision in regards to allowed content. Hopefully this is was just some early wobblies and the community can move on.
Beehaw was right to defederate many instances and so should we. Beehaw is crazy but not that crazy.
Defederate these instances, what are you so afraid of? Some people here are going full throttle on the freedom of blabla, don’t listen to them. Ban this stuff, do you really want Kbin to be known as “this network”? Do you want this reputation? I don’t. If you want more then register to another instance which accepts this stuff but don’t drag all our infrastructure with you.
Federating this content puts the servers of Ernest in danger.
edit: downvote me more, I take it as a badge of honor because I know who it’s coming from.
I’ll just point out that I never suggested anyone defederate from anyone.
As a side point though, lots of places had already defederated from lemmynsfw.I just want a NSFW instance that doesn’t cater to pseudo child porn
I mean, it seems like they back-pedaled on that (or were unclear initially and never intended to allow drawn CP), as long as it stays that way and they actually enforce it, I don’t see a need to de-federate
Is this you u/spez on some mission to destroy the federated world before it had a chance to grow up?
If that kind of content was allowed here I’d delete my account. No, one wants that kind of trouble.
You wrote:
Guess other instances do not care regardless even if its correctly flagged and tagged and everything. I had a discussion about this topic with the mods of feddit.de, but they are firm to block whole instances if there is any NSFW community on it. No matter what. I am now on kbin and deleted my account there.
Why don’t you open an account on one of those instance instead of pushing it in our throats?
No one wants to shove petite Asian ladies into your throat. Just don’t subscribe to those communities/magazines. That NSFW magazines appear in All is nothing but a technical issue.
Why the hell do you think having 5 accounts so you can subscribe to everything you want is acceptable.It’s always the fucking furries
🤡
Everyone will note that you never address the pedo data ending up hosted by Ernest if we don’t defederate. You never talk about that, it’s always about you, you you. Well sorry for you but you are not alone and there are real-life implications to hosting this content.
This pedo content has nothing to do on this server.
Just don’t subscribe to those communities/magazines.
No, YOU go out and get your illegal content from the source.
It’s true, drawn child porn is still child porn in many juristictions, e.g, in the UK it’s explicitly prohibited. https://jd-solicitors.co.uk/guide-to-uk-pornography-laws/#:~:text=UK%20Child%20pornography%20laws&text=The%20first%20is%20indecent%20images,%2C%20and%20computer%2Dgenerated%20images
You can try and argue in court that the server you’re legally responsible for hosting child porn is permitted but…good luck.No one here speaks about child pornography but you.
Go run your own instance, you will be able to federate with whoever you want. Your instance = your responsibility.
Again, no one is talking about child porn beside you. Everything lemmynsfw allows is legal in any jurisdiction. And everything it disallows like Loli and shota is clearly something no one wants to see here on kbin or lemmy even if it is legal in many parts of the world. The line is right there and lemmynsfw never challaned it.
I want kbin to be known as a network that is neutral and federates with all other instances, allowing users to decide what they wish to see. the second something is defederated/blocked, it becomes a slippery slope of crying to block this or that, and taking away power from the users.
I want kbin to be known as a network that is neutral and federates with all other instances, allowing users to decide what they wish to see.
There has to be a line though.
I saw this person defending exploding-heads (Nazi instance) earlier so I imagine the line looks much different for them than for you.
IMO, unless it’s explicitly illegal, people should be free to share/say/discuss it. let people decide what they wish to see on their own and curate their own experience.
I believe illustrated child porn is illegal here in Canada, as well as other countries (not going to google it though). Seems like it isn’t in the US? I find it kind of shocking that so many people don’t see an issue with it, tbh.
loli/shota aren’t “illustrated child porn”.
Its not an issue for those you can seperate what they think is ok from what they think should be allowable due to peoples personal freedom. A drawing is a creation of an artist from some sort of media. When its created, no one gets hurt. When its consumed, no one gets hurt. Will I be a consumer. Nope but I also believe in legalization of prositution without planning to go to one. I was for marijuana legalization and have never used it. Rights are not just about what I think is fine.
And which legal system would we be using here?
server host’s laws. the goal being to avoid legal takedowns. I’m a free speech maximalist. The only thing that should ever be taken down IMO is nonconsensual nsfw photos/videos. So cp, revenge porn, deepfakes, etc. along with literal off-topic spam (spammy affiliate links).
Well, what if do want that? What should be of my sever that is set up in a country where said content was legal? I’m well aware I’m making more of a hypothetical statement here, but I believe that kinda stuff doesn’t really have a place being blatantly public to everyone by default. I can empathize with free speech but I do believe there needs to be at least some sort of soft barriers.
Also, “avoiding legal takedowns” is kinda sus. I’m sure you didn’t mean anything by it but it really isn’t a strong opener when talking about porn.
What should be of my sever that is set up in a country where said content was legal?
If you wish to see such content and such content is legal in your area, then you should be free to have an instance that does that. Personally I would support defederating from such a service. These are not merely a preference of content, but rather things that have actual harm to actual people.
but I believe that kinda stuff doesn’t really have a place being blatantly public to everyone by default.
“federated” and “public to everyone by default” are two entirely different things. I agree, that nsfw content of any kind shouldn’t be public front page “to everyone by default”. That doesn’t mean we should defederate from nsfw instances.
Also, “avoiding legal takedowns” is kinda sus. I’m sure you didn’t mean anything by it but it really isn’t a strong opener when talking about porn.
Keep in mind that legality of nsfw content varies wildly per region. For example, japan explicitly bans any nsfw materials showing genitals that are not blurred/pixelated. So if a server is hosted in japan, then it’s expected that that sort of content (uncensored genitals) would be banned/defederated in order to stay compliant with the laws of the region. Similarly, a server hosted in the middle east might be expected to ban/defederate from instances home to imagery of muhammad, or of nsfw lgbt content.
I think each person should be allowed to choose what that line is for them, and not have that line chosen for them.
Disclaimer: I was a victim of child SA, I do not support or condone SA. But I DO support pedophiles who have never and will never act on their desires having a SAFE NONVIOLENT FICTIONAL outlet for their perverted fantasies, if anything so they don’t take that shit out on innocent children.
Eh, I get the principle, and we should definitely be less trigger-happy about defederating than beehaw, but if a server starts tolerating a bunch of drawn CP, we should probably just defederate. That being said, it seems like lemmynsfw is prohibiting it, so I say we keep federating with them unless it becomes clear they won’t actually enforce that rule.
No reason to cut ourselves off from half the nsfw communities on the fediverse unless we have to.
That is wild, I made an account on there last night so I was curious to find the announcement post. Evidently lots of people are quite outraged. I also noticed as of a few minutes ago a clarification post has been made: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826
To quote:
I have so much respect for @yay@lemmynsfw.com but i can’t believe how poorly he wrote the update message, lol. Here is what’s happening; - loli/shota are BANNED and not okay in any way. - IRL kids are BANNED OBVIOUSLY because no shit. - characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage are ALLOWED because as an instance the votes decided that banning all of it was destructive, and differentiating between them can be impossible. The line will continue to be up to the admins discretion, though we always appreciate input. And beyond this, individual communities can decide whether they want to outright ban all flat-chested etc. porn to be safe. Any other clarifications necessary, just ask below. Thanks for reading. ~RestfulI’m not sure what to make of all this; it’s a bit iffy to me so I’ll be on the lookout for another NSFW related Lemmy community. There were a couple of folks in the comments of the original announcement post stating they’re gonna make their own instance so we’ll see how that pans out.
The heading of the post is, and I quote
We’re allowing non-IRL underage looking content
Maybe they minced words being non English as their first language.
I understand that, languages are tough.
That said, the fact that it isn’t a hard line on that shit is enough for the majority of people to want another instance.I’m not trying to have them closed. I’m not fronting a resistance to have people not go there. As far as I’m concerned its “legal” and whatever, but at the end of the day the majority of people are not only not interested, but disgusted by that.
Being real here, if I’m looking at nude content, as lots of us do, there is some stuff I don’t want to see. Underaged content is on that list. I would safely assume that is on the list for many people.
The point of this thread is to warn other “normies” that the people running that instance are cool with this sort of thing, and ask if there is an alternative yet. lemmynsfw can and will do whatever they want. I’m fine with that, its not the point here. The point is warning others and asking for an alternative.
I completely agree with your points. I alongside many others appreciate the heads up; for some reason `!lemmynsfw doesn’t show up on my local feed over there so I never would’ve seen the post if it weren’t for this thread.
I mean the person that made the original post has responded to that post saying “im not a pedo 🫤🤷♂️ I thought loli meant for teen people like 18-25.”
Which to me does not track at all with what was said the first post, where they acknowledge that it’s drawings that appears to be of people underage. how do you talk about underage then say " I thought they meant 18 year old" does not really strike me as an “oopsi, I did not know”
I don’t know how people can be arguing against a post that is literally titled
We’re allowing non-IRL underage looking content
Oh yikes, I didn’t even see that comment. The fact that user is making this “clarification”, and not the admin themselves concerns me. It reads like they’re just piggybacking off the user poster who decided to do their own interpretation. Like others have stated before, there really needs to be a hard line drawn otherwise that instance is going to see a lot of people leaving.
My biggest concern coming from this is that the admins over there seem really, really out of their depth.
Again, they can and will do whatever they want to do, but in my personal opinion a large general NSFW instance needs to have people who know what they are doing at the helm or its going to be a disaster. I just hope no regular user gets caught up if/when shit hits the fan
loli/shota are BANNED and not okay in any way.
characters who are petite/young-looking are ALLOWED
These are contradictory statements. that’s literally what the words loli/shota mean.
No expert on straight porn, but that would probably include lots of Asian adult porn actors.
Lolli is a very stretchable word you can technically see a 18 year old flat chested, short woman as lolli
loli/shota haters are gonna lose their shit when they find out about oppai loli. if loli referred to minors, such a thing simply couldn’t exist lol.
the reality is that loli/shota have nothing to do with age.
uzuki-chan XD strictly speaking lolli…
yup. people hating on this clearly ave no idea what they’re talking about. like there’s a clear distinction between actual anime children and loli content. and there’s plenty of people who like the latter and not the former. it’s not hard to understand.
Lolicon does depict minor characters engaged in sexual acts. Whether that is exclusively or not doesn’t really matter. Although it doesn’t surprise me to see you here defending it. You have trash fucking takes on every topic you engage in.
the cool thing about the fediverse and open platforms is that we are free to agree to disagree. the second you start defederating, silencing, or banning people over disagreements, is the second you start building an echochamber and leading to situations like what reddit or twitter have. If you don’t like the stuff I comment or share, then you’re free to block me.
But why does your dislike of what I wish to discuss/say/share mean that I shouldn’t be allowed to do so and discuss with others who do wish to speak to me?
i mean at that rate loli/shota mean nothing
being on guard for pedophiles is good, but the obsessive policing of how petite women are allowed to be while still being ‘okay’ to sexualize has gotten extremely silly, both when it comes to art and when it comes to actual women sexualising themselves
loli/shota have a very clear meaning, and it’s not “underage”.
What a mess! I can’t tell if it’s backtracking because of backlash or actual clarification.
The fact the post was made by a user and not the actual admin certainly contributes to this mess.
Just block these communitys, its nothing serious.
Actually, it is serious. That is the entire point.
how do I block that on kbin?
up the top of this page where the post title is, next to it is (lemmynsfw.com). You have to click on that, then in the side bar there is a block icon. For some reason when you block that lemmy instance, you also lose this thread, which is weird because this thread is hosted on kbin. It must also block links to the blocked instance as well…?
Can this be done on mobile?
Yikes. As long as it’s not actual children it’s fine by me. They’re an NSFW server after all.
Maybe a hot take, but I don’t mind as long as there are no victims and no one is actually hurt.
But I also won’t lose any sleep if the content is banned by communities that don’t want that (such as kbin.social if that happens to be the case).
I don’t think everyone would think of that as ‘drawn child porn’. Plenty of live action ‘school girl’ stuff out there and that usually gets a pass. Pretty much every amateur video is implied to be incestuous now, are they promoting having sex with school kids and incest?
Terms like ‘barely legal’ and ‘young teen’ are used all the time, do you think there aren’t people out there imagining those girls being younger than 18? If some Loli drawings are where you draw the line then it seems like an odd place to do so. Does nothing for me personally, I prefer drawings of young boys misbehaving, swearing and defecating /s (South Park).
I’m not here to argue about the nuance of drawn pictures of naked kids.
I don’t care. Lemmynsfw can do whatever they want.
The point is there is going to be NSFW instances, and im:
a) warning people not interested in that shit that lemmynsfw is not the place to go, and
b) asking if there are any other alternativesIn that case a simple ‘What are the best NSFW instances?’ would have sufficed perhaps with a line stating that you don’t enjoy hentai / loli. You cared about the nuance when you called it child porn despite knowing the actual genre is ‘loli’.
Big difference between something not being your cup of tea and full blown child porn accusations. I might not enjoy someone sending me an eggplant emoji but I wouldn’t call the police and say I’ve just been harassed by a drawn picture of a purple cock.
Hope you find an instance to your tastes and I hope you can get your questions answered in future without feeling the need to incite a mob.
No, I’m warning people who don’t want to see pictures of naked kids that the instance is cool with that content.
Hentai isn’t the issue. The issue is
We’re allowing non-IRL underage looking content
Most people don’t want that. If you do, more power to ya bud
Nice straw man. Hope you can find the actual IRL underage content you’re looking for rather than just drawings. See how that works?
Where is the straw man?
Warning people who dont want underage content on their feed?
Directly quoting the announcement title?
Saying most people dont want that content but if you do good for you?Literally none of those are strawmen
Well… we’re talking about some manga drawings which might just look like Funko pops with breasts to some but you decided to instead say that we’re irrefutably talking about ‘pictures of naked kids’, a massive oversimplification which makes your argument look stronger.
‘if you do then more power to ya bud’ to make it sound like I enjoy that content despite the fact that I’ve already said that it does nothing for me. A misrepresentation of my position.
That’s what makes it a straw man argument in my opinion.
Anyway thanks for the debate, I haven’t followed on with what happened in the rest of the thread and really regret engaging with it in the first place. Sorry if I offended you, it’s hard to get points across via text sometimes and I probably came off a bit strong.
None of this really affects me as I don’t use Lemmy for NSFW content, I like the platform though and don’t want to believe that it would be used for underage content so I guess we pretty much agree where it counts but came at it from different angles.
Peace and love
Yea look, I got a bit heated about it and I sincerely apologise for that.
Im glad I brought it up though, enough people have been pissed off about the decision that they seem to have taken a hard 180 on the topic, so alls well that ends well for the time being.
And yea I agree there are always different angles, and with so many people moving to a new platform for different reasons there is always going to be some butting heads.
Im just worried that the fediverse is going to take a turn and be overun by edgelords like what has happened with so many “reddit alternatives” in the past.
Anyway, peace and love for sure my dude/dudette
saying loli is drawn child porn
:| loli does not refer to children. there are loli adults.
You can apply whatever definition to loli that you want, whatever makes you feel best.
The Pedos sure want to come out in full force don’t they, pure scum. No surprise 90% have anime pfps.
citing a shitty dictionary doesn’t change the facts. loli does not refer to an age. no matter how much you wish to cry and try and say it does.
Hey, if you go out of your way to find dictionaries that support your world view of naked pictures of kids thats up to you bud, more power to ya
I don’t need a dictionary to know how to speak english. loli/shota are well understood words in the weeb community. they don’t refer to kids.
also, I don’t look at that kind of hentai lol. but notably: loli/shota do not refer to nsfw things. there is sfw loli/shota pics and nsfw ones.
I have a hunch you’re probably fine with actually illegal porn though while outcrying about this perfectly legal stuff.
If you want to be daft about the situation, more power to ya bud.
Its clear in context what the implication of allowing that content is, being contrary isn’t going to change anything
their ruling is independent of the fact that the words loli and shota do not refer to children. I went to go look for the announcement post (since it wasn’t linked) and it talks about content that isn’t necessarily synonymous with loli/shota. in the post they explicitly say that they aren’t allowing minors/children.
you’re throwing a fuss about adults.
Post title
We’re allowing non-IRL underage looking content
I’m telling people who don’t want to see pics of naked kids that this particular instance is cool with that.
You’re defending that instance.
I’m not throwing a fuss bud
Shit like this is why I hide the fact I watch anime
I had to go find the thread being referenced, it’s here for anyone else who hasn’t seen it: https://kbin.social/m/lemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com/t/42348
I took the time to post my own thoughts in the thread, which I’ve reproduced here:
It seems a lot of people have very strong negative reactions to anything which is too close to children in pornography. I don't think that's an especially bad thing, but in my mind the only reason to be against minors in pornography is to protect those same minors from harm. As an analogy, I find scat porn disgusting. But that doesn't mean it should be banned, as long as all parties are able to consent and no harm is done. When it comes to non-child-coded drawings (though with childish proportions), I don't see the harm or lack of consent. And if that is the case, it doesn't matter what my personal feelings are about the content, it shouldn't be banned.Again, not here to discuss the nuance of drawn pictures of naked kids.
Not trying to shut down the instance.I don’t care.
I’m just warning people who don’t like that shit, that is most people, that the instance owner is cool with that content so if you aren’t into it then probably look elsewhere.
A secondary point was asking if there are any alternatives yet.
I know there will be, I’m just wondering if there isNo, it’s highly misleading: https://kbin.social/m/lemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com/t/42695/READ-THIS-clarification-on-the-decision-and-poll-results
Allowed are fictional content of characters where it becomes hard to exactly tell if they’re adult or not. Not obvious underage stuff.
The post title, direct quote
We’re allowing non-IRL underage looking content
I see you did not even bother to read the clarification, nor the original question.
No I did, and they said
We’re allowing non-IRL underage looking content
Then they go on to say there is a difference between teen and child, and then backtrack and say “noooo we banned loli”, after posting a thread titled
We’re allowing non-IRL underage looking content
edit:
And now the title of the post isWe’re (not) allowing non-IRL underage looking content
No, it says, and I quote the whole thing for you as you apparently lack reading comprehension, since your quote is literally not part of it:
I have so much respect for @yay but i can’t believe how poorly he wrote the update message, lol.
Here is what’s happening;
- loli/shota are BANNED and not okay in any way.
- IRL kids are BANNED OBVIOUSLY because no shit.
- characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage are ALLOWED because as an instance the votes decided that banning all of it was destructive, and differentiating between them can be impossible.
The line will continue to be up to the admins discretion, though we always appreciate input. And beyond this, individual communities can decide whether they want to outright ban all flat-chested etc. porn to be safe.
Any other clarifications necessary, just ask below. Thanks for reading. ~Restful
Yes, the backtrack, which was posted after my initial thread, which is a 180 on what was originally posted, but also goes on to say that its impossible to differentiate if its flat chested content.
All this could have been solved by saying “18+ only”, but instead they want to dance the pedo line and come up with their own rules based on breast size and “anime skin tones” and all this other nonsense.
This thread isnt missleading, I posted what I saw. Then they backtracked almost. If people didnt post about it and say they were leaving there wouldnt have been a backtrack.
- tomve_cz ( @tomve_cz@kbin.social ) 3•1 year ago
I’m hoping that they have server in ruSSia or they are running by FBI … otherwise they will knock down by interpol and every user will be screened
or just somewhere sane like california?
Bad take
Man, the witchhunty FUD about that is sad
