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Time to De-Google I guess. I will keep using Firefox and if or when I come across any website pulling this crap I won’t hesitate to blast them to eternity. I suggest everyone else do the same please.
Time was a decade ago… But better now than never.
I’m just going to stop using sites that implement this tech. Maybe I’ll even make a site and actually contribute to the web with all the free time I’ll have 😇
It’ll be next to impossible when those websites are your bank and Netflix etc.
Not using Netflix is very possible :) Even easier with the pricing they are up to lately.
(But I know you were just listing some examples)
True, but things like banking and e-commerce are another very large part of the things people do on the Internet, and those are more likely to follow along than not.
not sure if you’re talking about sailing there, but my point against Netflix would be that there are definitely more things to do in life than sitting through hours of passive low effort entertainment. it’s very obvious but I guess people are slowly forgetting about that
even gaming is better. at least you’re exercising your brain and motor skills
the banking thing is something else though. but it’s the kind of thing that’s probably done for security anyway, so it’s not that bad and things like that definitely wouldn’t be profitable enough for all this effort Google and others are putting into it 😅
yarrrrrrr
I figured that banks would use it so I have a browser for them and there are alternatives to Netflix that don’t have any drm.
Yarrr 🏴☠️
I’m out of the loop on this one and I’m probably the minority here but big banks would probably incorporate this whole WEI thing but wouldn’t smaller institutions like credit unions opt out? I apologize for my ignorance, I haven’t looked into this at all. This is the first time I’m hearing about WEI and I’m trying to garner some sort of and idea of what it is via comments rather than reading an article about it like a regular human being.
Honestly I am in the same boat, but big banks still make a large portion of the banking system and I don’t why the smaller banks wouldn’t just follow along.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 1•2 years ago
Government regulators will most likely force all financial and medical institutions to block all unattested browsers, for “security”.
De-google, anyone?
How do you “de-google” when most websites expect most browsers to use chromium and start requiring this to ensure
companies buying ad space get the best bang for their bucksecurity?
Firefox and ublock origin to start. Site requires Chromium? Buh bye now.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 4•2 years ago
Good luck with that when the site is your bank, your doctor, or your government.
We do to google what we should have done to Microsoft: we stop visiting those sights
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 3•2 years ago
Good luck with that when the site is your bank, your doctor, or your government.
But we didn’t do it with MS. And they saw that. They were the last real antitrust case that was big.
I agree it is an uphill battle, but it must start somewhere. Else, it only gets worse, and then movements against such abuses will get easily crushed. As I like to say, “the hardest part of a journey is the first step”, but also “the future belongs to those who prepare now”.
If I can’t internet without ads, I can’t internet at all.
Same. If my pihole breaks the internet because of this, welp. 🤷🏻♀️
Hacker News discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36876301
That’s bleak
- skymtf ( @skymtf@pricefield.org ) 24•2 years ago
Honestly this won’t effect me a ton, though I wouldn’t be surprised if I have to boot up a windows virtual machine just to check my bank in a few years cause my bank doesn’t know what Linux is and doesn’t want go trust it. I’m mad about it but given slowly but surely I’ve been replacing everything with FOSS stuff. I just fear one day they will force you to use corpo approved software to use WiFi , or get cell service
Just keep dropping Google shit and recommending to others.Critical mass will be hit at some point. There are too many smart and capable people in the world to succumb to a Google world.
So this is a problem for all browsers based on Chromium right???
No, it is a problem for all browsers, present and future, period.
The point is that major websites, even government ones might decide to be only available on Chrome.
So much for internet freedom…
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 1•2 years ago
They can already make that decision by looking at your
User-Agent, but this gives them an incentive to block other browsers. That is terrifying.You can spoof that, so they know it’s not a good enforcement mechanism as it can still be sidestepped by extensions. I had to do that for a corporate client when their intranet tried enforcing Chrome on Windows only.
If Google et al. tried enforcing user agents, they would just lose even more tracking information, as everyone would be scrambling their user agents. This cannot be so easily sidestepped.
Question for anyone with more understanding of the implementation…
Doesn’t this still presume the browser tells the truth to the third party attester? Could we not build something that just straight up lies to the attester? Says I’m a good Google chrome user with no extensions please serve me ads sir?
This system would use cryptography and hardware to make sure that you are unable to lie about any of this. Basically, there is a chip inside your CPU that contains special keys installed by the manufacturer. However, this chip only activates itself when it detects that your device is running the approved software. Furthermore, it is made (almost) impossible to open this chip and retrieve the keys without destroying it.
I dunno man, you can virtualise tpms, and if you can virtualise it, you can lie about it.
You can virtualize a TPM, but you can’t obtain a valid endorsement key.
People saying de-google like google isn’t in the position Microsoft was in when they killed Netscape. It’s over y’all, once it’s in chromium it’s the standard, period. The open web is dead.
Edit: ok, be in denial then.
Google isn’t alone in the box. The different governments and states should be in the box with them. It’s not like people warned Google and other corps are a threat to competition and freedom.
We didn’t see anything coming as antitrust procedure.
Maybe Europe will do something but I know damn well the us won’t.
Is there anything a person can do about it, other than using Firefox and degoogling?
La
Can you explain to someone not so tech savy what this means?
No more add blockers. No more accessibility tools. Only what google wants you to see.
And this will work for google products only of for chrome as a whole?
Only for Chromium based browsers so something like ~80% of worldwide usage. Starting with Google products however also the websites that want to use Google’s codebase, a lot of them. Unless they change it against this development.
A fork like Vivaldi, Brave or Opera could opt not to implement these changes, but then some websites could become incompatible to them.
What is WEI?
Stands for Web Environment Integrity. Beyond that, I know nothing.
DRM in the web.
excuse my ignorance, what is DRM?
Digital Rights Management. Usually DRM agreements are imbedded in the terms and conditions no one reads when they install software. It usually gives the software vendor the right to monitor your use of the software in real time via the internet.
Within the context of Chrome and other Chromium based web browsers, this means that Google will be able to monitor your web browsing in a new way any time you’re using a browser based on Chrome/Chromium.
excuse my ignorance again, but how would monitoring software use in real time be different than how they currently monitor it? what would it really entail? serving more accurate ads and collecting/selling that more invasive type or information?
i haven’t looked into privacy much prior to joining lemmy, so i’m not very knowledgeable, but i’m very interested in learning more about it.
Not much, which is why this isn’t really a privacy issue. Privacy is already long gone. It’s a control issue.
Think about how many websites use Google Adsense. With this DRM, Google could force those websites to serve content only to users using chromium, and specifically those without adblockers installed. They’re trying to subjugate the internet.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 1•2 years ago
No force necessary there. Sites will do that on their own, to maximize their ad revenue.
Digital Rights Management. Code that prevents you from doing what you want with the information you have.
Thanks.
Bascially, at its core, it allows websites to attest that the website shown in the browser is the one given by the server. In principle, this could be a good thing, but in reality, it’s a very very very very very bad thing. Ad blockers will stop working. Accessiblity tools will stop working. At its worst, it will be a requirement to use a website that you only use appoved software and hardware. That means, only chrome, on windows for example. This is a very bad thing. It spells the end for FOSS. Firefox will be as good as dead. I don’t think I’m doomsaying here. I believe this is what will happen.
from https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/1053748
https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/wei-wpt-other
https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/wei-wpt
these showed up after Jul 21 per GitHub “contribution activity” but are retroactively dated to 13 - they were probably private before that.
Please comment any information under this post and create cross-links to any possible posts - to create comprehensible information source.
Shamelessly stolen from the HN thread:
Don’t just comment and complain, contact your antitrust authority today: US:
EU:
UK:
India:
Email template:
I would like to bring your attention to Google’s recent proposal to add a feature to its Chrome (Chromium family) of browsers called Web Environment Integrity. This provides a mechanism to reinforce Google’s already dominant browser market position by creating a technological control that can be used to nullify a user’s choice of browser, device and operating system. This technology also has the potential for abuse by preventing users from using browser extensions that can enhance security by blocking unwanted and potentially malicious content, as well as browser extensions that help vulnerable users with enhanced accessibility needs, such as color blindness and visual impairment. Google’s dominant, near-monopoly position in the browser market already harms me as a consumer by reducing browser choices and preventing a competitive market for developing new browsers. Allowing Google to include this feature will reduce my browser choices and consolidate the browser market even further, and it is incumbent on [INSERT AUTHORITY HERE] to take action against this abusive behavior.