Explanations/etymology also appreciated!
For Joe Shmoe, it means a very average or below average person. It’s a derivation of the practice of using “shm-” to dismiss something (eg “Practice shmactice. We’re already perfect”).
And “John Smith” is meant to be the most average name or person imaginable, so they have the “most common” (citation needed) first and last name as well.
- Hubi ( @Hubi@feddit.de ) 88•11 months ago
In Germany there is “Max Mustermann”, which basically translates to Max Template-man. It’s the default German name used for templates of official documents like passports and such.
- CAPSLOCKFTW ( @CAPSLOCKFTW@lemmy.ml ) 43•11 months ago
Don’t forget Otto Normalverbraucher. Nobody cares about Otto Normalverbraucher.
- Tschuuuls ( @Tschuuuls@feddit.de ) English15•11 months ago
In German there are also derogatory uses for the forenames “Kevin” and “Otto” for example. Often used to depict not well educated persons that have made extremely stupid decisions/choices.
- ndguardian ( @ndguardian@lemmy.studio ) English12•11 months ago
As someone with a brother named Kevin, I can confirm he’s doing his part to uphold that depiction.
- dreadgoat ( @dreadgoat@kbin.social ) 8•11 months ago
I think this one is pretty confined to my region (southwestern USA) but we use Otto as the moniker of a generic stupid person too, but probably for a different reason: Otto is Oblivious to the Obvious
- ValiantDust ( @ValiantDust@feddit.de ) 14•11 months ago
Don’t forget his wife, Erika Mustermann, geb. (née) Gabler. She’s usually the one used for passports these days. I think there’s a whole Mustermann family living in these templates.
- elvith ( @elvith@feddit.de ) 3•11 months ago
Isn’t it Erika Musterfrau?
- ValiantDust ( @ValiantDust@feddit.de ) 3•11 months ago
Sometimes, but I mostly see her name as Mustermann.
- Darukhnarn ( @Darukhnarn@feddit.de ) 8•11 months ago
Or for historical context: “der Deutsche Michel” - “the German Michael “
- vis4valentine ( @vis4valentine@lemmy.ml ) 47•11 months ago
In my country (Spanish speaking) we say “Fulano de tal” Fulano is kinda like a template name nobody really is named like that. “De tal” really means something like “from somewhere”.
We dont out it on the graves, but we use it as slang for situations where we need to refer to someone generic like “imagine a fulano de tal doing xxxxxxxxxxx”.
There are other names like Zutano, Mengano, etc.
Edit: My mom sometimes uses “Miguel Perez”. Those 2 are very common first and last names.
- Beto ( @beto@lemmy.studio ) 21•11 months ago
In Brazil (Portuguese speaking) we also use Fulano de tal. I didn’t know it was used in other countries!
We also “José Ninguém” and “Maria Ninguém” to mean someone who’s a nobody. It literally means Joseph/Mary (very common names in Brazil) Nobody.
- lalo ( @lalo@discuss.tchncs.de ) 5•11 months ago
There’s also a name that expresses the same feeling of ‘Joe Schmoe’ in pt-br: ‘Zé Roela’
And to expand on Fulano’s family, we must not forget Beltrano and Ciclano.
- ComradeR ( @ComradeR@lemmy.ml ) 4•11 months ago
And “Zé das Couves” (but this one is used more rarely).
- babi99 ( @babi99@lemm.ee ) English15•11 months ago
Does this came from arabic influence?
To refer someone without a name or generic name we sometime say Fulan bin Fulan meaning someone the son of someone
- driving_crooner ( @driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br ) 11•11 months ago
A lot of Spanish words and culture come from Arabic influences, the iberic peninsula was under control of arabs on the VIII century.
- thisisbutaname ( @thisisbutaname@discuss.tchncs.de ) 1•11 months ago
There’s something similar in Italian, Tal dei Tali. Literally something like that one of those ones
- wildeaboutoskar ( @wildeaboutoskar@beehaw.org ) English25•11 months ago
We have the phrase ‘every Tom, Dick and Harry’ which is like that (UK)
If we’re talking about a generic person it’s usually Mr/s Smith or Mr/s Jones (near Wales)
- livus ( @livus@kbin.social ) 4•11 months ago
Do you have “every man and his dog”? (Same meaning as every Tom Dick or Harry")
- wildeaboutoskar ( @wildeaboutoskar@beehaw.org ) 3•11 months ago
Yeah we do :)
- bpalmerau ( @bpalmerau@aussie.zone ) English2•11 months ago
In Australia we have Joe Bloggs, but it sounds English. Do you have him in England?
- essell ( @essellburns@beehaw.org ) English2•11 months ago
Yup, he gets everywhere
- Fenzik ( @Fenzik@lemmy.ml ) English21•11 months ago
In the Netherlands there’s “Jan Modaal”, modaal (modal) referring the most commonly occurring value in or peak of a distribution. This name is used often when representing the experience of the most average Dutchman.
It’s especially often used in financial discussions and journalism, like “owning a house is getting further out of reach for Jan Modaal.”
- Carlos Solís ( @csolisr@communities.azkware.net ) English13•11 months ago
Which correlates nicely with the English expression “your average Joe”!
- Pietson ( @Pietson@kbin.social ) 9•11 months ago
In Belgium we mostly use Jan met de pet (“Jan with the cap”)
- abbadon420 ( @abbadon420@lemm.ee ) 7•11 months ago
We also have the slur of “sjonnie en anita” when talking about lower class, anti social people, “sjonnie” being the man and “anita” the woman. Both are very common names in older generations, less common in younger generations.
- appel ( @appel@lemmy.ml ) 2•11 months ago
Would Jan Lul be relevant to this discussion?
- Akasazh ( @Akasazh@feddit.nl ) 1•11 months ago
Ingrid en Henk, too, for the run of they mill boomer stereotype
- Grimlo9ic ( @Grimlo9ic@kbin.social ) 21•11 months ago
In the Philippines, it’s Juan and Maria dela Cruz, although those have fallen out of use due to the popularity of Western (aka US) culture. Interesting reading about every country’s own names for their everyman.
- alf ( @alf@lemmy.ml ) 16•11 months ago
In Norway we have “Ola Nordmann” and “Kari Nordmann”. Ola and Kari are pretty common and generic names. Nordmann literally means Norwegian, but can also be used as a last name.
- muttley ( @muttley@lemmy.ml ) 16•11 months ago
In the UK it is Joe Bloggs
- DirigibleProtein ( @DirigibleProtein@aussie.zone ) 2•11 months ago
Also Fred Bloggs in Australia — maybe they’re related?
- lichengeese ( @lichengeese@beehaw.org ) English16•11 months ago
Not to stifle further discussion, but this Wikipedia page has a wealth of examples
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_placeholder_names_by_language
- livus ( @livus@kbin.social ) 6•11 months ago
The examples for places was interesting.
We have “Eketahuna” (meaning, a small town, middle of nowhere). Eketahuna is a real place ha ha.
We have “Waikikamukau” which is a fictional small town. In bad pakeha pronunciation accent it would sound like “why kick a moo cow”).
(Aotearoa/NZ)
- beeng ( @beeng@discuss.tchncs.de ) 1•11 months ago
Amazing, Ive been learning German for 8 years and just had a great laugh!
- F5XS ( @f5xs_bhw0a@beehaw.org ) English1•11 months ago
I’d attest to that Juan de la Cruz for the most generic Filipino name. de la Cruz still works as a very common surname though I don’t think Juan is still used as much as back then.
And then there are the placeholder phrases, all of which I’ve heard and used.
Uy, ku’nin mo ang ano, yung kuan, iyon! Ay, ano nga ba ang tawag d’yan? Noong ninety kopong-kopong pa namin binili iyan kina ano… Ano nga ba’ng pangalan niya?
- Bjaldr ( @Bjaldr@discuss.tchncs.de ) 15•11 months ago
In the UK for a random guy it’s usually Joe Bloggs.
- Green_Bay_Guy ( @Green_Bay_Guy@lemmy.ml ) 15•11 months ago
In Vietnam, I think it’s just most names 😂. Anh Nguyen is probably a good example. Most Vietnamese have the last name Nguyen. The national naming conventions rival that of religious families in the west. Think, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Anh, An, Thanh, and Minh. Women are the same, but named after things considered beautiful, Tuyet, Hong, Pham, Van.
Funny enough, many names aren’t always gendered, so I’ve met a decent amount of couples with the same first and last names. An Thi Nguyen, and An Van Nguyen is a couple that comes to mind. I dont have to worry about doxxing, since I bet that exists over 1000x here.
- infamousbelgian ( @infamousbelgian@waste-of.space ) 14•11 months ago
Flemish talking part of Belgium it is Jan Janssen
- Thorny_Thicket ( @Thorny_Thicket@sopuli.xyz ) 14•11 months ago
In Finnish it’s Matti Meikäläinen for male and Maija Meikäläinen for woman. Matti Meikäläinen roughly translates to Matt Myself
- gerdesj ( @gerdesj@lemmy.ml ) English1•11 months ago
So that might be Matty and Miya Meiikaalayinen. Dealing with diacritics from a language that has none is a bit tricky.
Am I even close?
- halvdan ( @halvdan@beehaw.org ) English13•11 months ago
Sweden: Svensson, although the most common surname is Andersson.
Specifically for Gothenburg - Glenn “everybody is called Glenn in Gothenburg”, or older use - Kålle (male) and Ada (female). Not used that often.
- LazaroFlim ( @LazaroFilm@lemmy.film ) English11•11 months ago
France: Martin Dupont
But I prefer Dominique Dupont as the first name is both for men and women.
- TheLemming ( @u202307011927@feddit.de ) 1•11 months ago
I remember, in this movie Inglorious Basterds, the woman and her family were called
Dupont
aswell