I’m curious about what you think on how it will affect the Linux community and distros (especially RHEL based distros like Fedora or Rocky).
I’m going to continue running Debian as I did since 2003 or so.
- fugepe ( @fugepe@lemmy.ml ) 8•2 years ago
With all the new updates happening around all the Linux peripherals, I wouldnt like to stay behind for the next 2/3 years on Debian
What is happening?
Someone has no idea how Debian works.
Arch?
I’m happy for you. Some of us have commercial software that needs a RHEL like distro to run.
supposedly you pay for this software. might as well pay for RHEL too then.
We are, but some orgs are more cash strapped than mine.
RHEL hasn’t gone closed source, it still complies with the GPL. If they provide you a binary, they must and will continue to provide you with the source code. I feel like this is like when they announced Centos Stream as a “rolling distro”, their messaging is awful, and the optics are bad. I feel this is more to stick it to Oracle and unfortunately, Alma and Rocky are just getting caught in the crossfire.
It has me conflicted. On one hand, fuck Oracle. On the other hand, we need projects like Alma and Rocky.
Yeah, I’m conflicted too. On one hand, fuck Oracle. On the other hand, fuck IBM.
More detials found here: https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/furthering-evolution-centos-stream?sc_cid=701f2000000tyBjAAI
Seem more accurate that their public repos will be closed, so now only centos-stream will be public. You will still have full access to source through their developer program or as a paying customer.
This is a fight between IBM and Oracle. There’s been a lot of bad blood between them since Oracle did a s/Red Hat/Oracle/r for their own branded distribution.
IMO that’s the main driver behind this change: don’t feed your largest competitor free stuff and not something specific against Rocky/Alma/whoever else is using the code.
So then Oracle just gets 1 dev account and pulls the source.
This was my initial thought as well, but I imagine that would violate the terms of their subscription and Red Hat could just revoke their access going forward.
They didn’t even go that far lol. There’s still Red Hat branding all over the place in Oracle Linux.
Wait wait, Oracle took someone’s stuff and did a lazy half-assed job of slapping Larry’s name on it and then shipped it as a product they then sell seven-figure support contracts on?
Well, I do declare.
My immediate thoughts as a fedora user: Fedora is looked at as a bleeding edge testing distro for what eventually goes into red hat. By using fedora, I am sort of a beta tester for ibm, and am in some ways contributing to the improvement of a distribution (red hat) that goes against what I believe a Linux distribution should do. Given that, should I distro hop?
Or is my brain just trying to make me distro hop again?
Edit: spelling
I would never consider Fedora bleeding edge, but that being said, after the Red Hat lawyers forced the removal of H.264 I did end up hopping after 5 very great years with Fedora. If you’re up for learning something new NixOS is a lot of fun.
NixOS is actually what I was considering! I like the immutable aspects of it but the setup will require me to find some downtime in order to get started.
That’s great to hear! It took me a few evenings wrap my head around it, but now I’m really enjoying it. There’s a great community as well!
You have to make up your own mind. Personally the association with IBM or Oracle would put me right off a distro. But you can find evil in all these big companies, so pick your poison.
OpenSUSE maybe?
I’ve been looking at it after seeing it had out-of-the-box snapper functionality.
Although counterpoint to that…someone said the devs were laid back, and I immediately pictured ol’ ernest again. But, first thing I found was a strong counterexample in the form of a very vocal contributor on Reddit.
Not going to call them out, but let’s just say it’s probably not a good idea having some apparently jaded and argumentative dev be the face of your community interaction.You could just use Fedora and not submit any bug reports as that would help them. Just quietly leech.
It’s nice if you can find something that both does what you need and agrees with your philosophy…but usually some compromise is required.
You aren’t the only one. Ive been on Fedora for a few years because I liked what Gnome was doing, I liked the updated Kernel, and I was annoyed by canonical. Now I’m not really sure where to go, as both Pop and Mint do not, in their current forms, work well with my hardware.
Not to revive any lame memes, but have a look at Arch Linux! I’ve been daily driving it for 10 years. It’s way more “updated” than fedora is.
does it have same interface? Fedoras gnome is unmatched (…to me, as far I tested around distros).
Or is there any other equivalent, similar to fedora and its gnome?
Arch doesn’t come with an interface, the idea is you build it up from the bare minimum yourself
Wouldn’t recommend if you just want a usable desktop os
As for gnome, gnome is gnome you can get it on any distro
Will try, just for novelty as second pc…see where it goes
I think it’s time to distro hop again
Yes, you should. Try something debian based like Mint. Hell, try Arch, which I use btw.
Do it, you coward! Hop with me!
Go NixOS man it’s the one that finally convinced me to ditch windows entirely and stop hopping
Definitely the last part, IMHO. Fedora’s governance is far more dispersed than just IBM/RedHat. Its where a lot of Linux leaders go to do their development work. Keep an eye though on the decisions made within the Fedora project and if you don’t like them, leave for something like tumbleweed.
Absolute L move from them. Atleast it makes the choice easier if future distrohopping urges will haunt my zoom zoom brain.
My thoughts exactly; One less distro to hop to.
I wouldn’t expect it to impact Fedora, but this will probably be significant for Rocky/Alma.
Great, I’ve got an alma ec2 instance with like 5 different services at work, I wanted to avoid changing it for at least a while =/
Rocky team seems to think it won’t matter! https://rockylinux.org/news/2023-06-22-press-release/
Well, users and contributors of Fedora might stop doing said things…
Since Fedora is upstream of RHEL I’d like to think it’ll be unaffected from the move. But only time will tell
Literally nothing has changed for Fedora or CentOS Stream.
Some additional information from Rocky Linux and Alma Linux, since many people (including me) are confused about the implications of this:
https://rockylinux.org/news/2023-06-22-press-release/ https://almalinux.org/blog/impact-of-rhel-changes/
Interestingly, Rocky Linux claims to be largely unaffected by this, while Alma Linux is desperately looking for alternative solutions.
It seems like no one really knows what the implications are, and we will just have to wait and see.
Rocky’s reaction seems the same as Alma, current long-term solution is they don’t know. A more businessly optimism in the post doesn’t really make up for a clear technical plan going forward.
I’m newish to Fedora and admit I don’t understand the whole developer/governance structure of it vs RHEL, but the news did make me wonder about continuing to use Fedora.
Reading some comments here, maybe it’s a non-issue. Guess I’ll have to dig more.
Fedora is RedHat initiated / donated, and community owned and operated. RedHat has always used free work from Fedora to put together their downstream RedHat builds, much as Canonical uses Debian testing for Ubuntu LTS. Fedora isn’t changing, just one of the downstream users of their source code. I do think it is indeed a good idea to keep an eye on things and make your decision based on how project governance goes, but too many parties are doing this kind of stuff with Linux upstream Linux distroes all the time to worry about it IMO. If you ask me, if you wanted to prevent a big cloud company from profiting from your free testing, the time to bail from Fedora was when Amazon introduce Amazon Linux in 2011. They’ve been making money off your free work for over a decade, and more than RedHat likely ever will, to boot.
Fellow Fedora user here. I find this is a little concerning, but overall, I’m not too worried. Fedora is their test bed for stuff, although it is a very stable, well maintained test bed.
It’s a complete non-issue. Sensationalist headlines are so easy to make about this.
Anybody who has a FREE developer account can access the source code.
Thanks for more information.
Honestly? I think Ubuntu’s userbase is about to get a lot bigger. The larger hosting companies (AWS and Digital Ocean are the two that come to mind immediately) support Ubuntu as a first-class citizen, so once the not-true blue RHEL distros take the hit migrations are going to happen.
Blueification of Red Hat . . . sad times
Embrace, extend, extinguish.
Rocky & Alma were easy targets. Next up thumbscrews on systemd!
Who do I have to let sit on my face to eradicate systemfail?
37yr old Richard Stallman
Alan Turing’s apple, I shoulda kept my big mouth shut.
Well, I just hope they ARE thinking. Gotta be a good reason -I have no read anything about this- for doing this.
I guess a few people might be looking at other distros now.
People use rocky/centos because they don’t want to deal with the hassles of licensing while also keeping the door open to an upgrade to RHEL if needed. I think this will be a net positive for Debian and Debian-based distros thanks to enterprise infra switching to Ubuntu which offers this (free use and an upgrade path to full compliance/commercial support.
Them closing up completely undermines their UVP.
Doesn’t Canonical hold the updates (also security ones) for days if you don’t have the “pro” license?
Nope. Even my personal Ubuntu VMs get updates in a fairly timely manner (I monitor the usual vulnerability and package update feeds and I haven’t seen any kinds of delays).