I get that it’s open source provided you use codium not code but I still find that interesting
I hate Google but they gave us Go, Kubernetes. I hate Amazon but they gave us AWS. I plainly hate those companies, but adore the brilliant engineers that work there.
Google is also one of the most prolific contributors to Linux, and was the #3 corporate contributor in 2022. If you’re avoiding everything Google had a hand in you literally can’t use any GNU/Linux.
Google is perfect at getting rich by shipping disgusting 90% FOSS 10% Tracking software. Literally all their Android Apps are closed source tracking malware. AOSP gets nearly no attention. But yeah, good Platforms
Well, yes, the end products of GAFAM aren’t designed to respect users’ freedom, but rather to control them. That doesn’t mean we can’t extract the good parts of what they do and create user-respecting alternatives. Standard Android sucks but we have LineageOS and GrapheneOS, for example.
A tool, like any human creation, is imbued with the agenda of its creators. The freedom to share and modify the tool is what allows the community to override the initial creator’s agenda. If free software comes with tracking malware the community will create a version without it. The community thus acts as a check against the power of the core developers.
This is why I’m against blindly rejecting anything that GAFAM has contributed to, as long as there is a freedom-respecting community version available.
This is a very very good answer, and perfectly portrays my feelings, as well.
I only use vim.
i have been trapped for 2 years now… hope seems pointlessVSCode is the only Electron program I know of that does not feel like using McDonald’s kiosk on virtual machine over remote desktop.
Over dailup
I’m thinking of making an Android app with electron (NC I don’t know Java Kotlin whatever lmao) is performance that bad?
Electron is for desktops OSes, so I think SE are talking about different things.
And it’s not only about performance, even when that programs are running on best machines it still looks like alien and not fit.
VSCode isn’t even that good, idk why people are obsessed with it.
For anything compiled, Jetbrains beats it 100:1, and for anything interpreted it’s a couple tiers better than Kate.
Personally, I won’t be losing sleep if I have to stop using VSCode.
If jetbrains is that much better really depends on the language. Also, jetbrains shit is damn expensive, so not a fair comparison.
They have free ‘community editions’, I haven’t really found a need for a licence. I’ve only used IntelliJ, PyCharm, and
ReSharperthough.Edit: I meant rider but I was using a student licence for it anyway.
IntelliJ and PyCharm are the only JetBrains IDEs with community editions. If you want to use CLion for example, you’ll either have to be a student or you have to pay.
or the project being opensource(it’s i read right now) don’t know how it work tho
Your project needs to be at least 3 months old with regular commits of code files (text files, readmes, or any other non code don’t count). That’s pretty much it.
I just went through the process, but since my project is only a month old, I got rejected. They told me to apply again in 2 months. My project is in Python, so I’m just using the community edition in the meantime, which is fine. I just really want the test code coverage feature of the paid version.
Also, jetbrains shit is damn expensive
Is it though? Considering the amount of time you spent in it and the potential productivity increase it might give you I’d consider it very fairly priced.
Expensiveness does not have to mean it isn’t priced fairly. Not everyone has the money to drop on tools like it, or is able to get their work to pay for it, even it is worth it.
For some time now I mostly write rust and I’m actually very satisfied with VS Code and rust-analyzer. I tried intelliJ-rust but didn’t find it better. To be fair, I haven’t tried the new jetbrains rust IDE though.
The thing is the VS code handles everything (with extensions). If I want to use pandoc, or CSV to markdown table, python linting, Go, whatever, there’s extensions that can handle all of these equally well and consistently, for example format on save.
If I want to use jetbrains then the pycharm for python, intelliJ for Java, Goland for golang… Then there’s licencing depending on whether I’m using a personal licence or corporate laptop, whether I have to get a licence from my employer etc.
For me it’s not so much that it’s so good, but that it works with everything in a consistent and obvious way plus I can install it on any machine I might be using.
Jetbrains IDEs are not free though are they?
I also quite like the light touch feel you get from code, I can use it for any language and am not going to have to navigate through hundreds of language specific features I don’t need unless I install them myself
Kate might do similar but I can’t imagine the extension pool is big enough to compete and I think at that point I’d just use a commandline editor instead
Some are, the intellij java community edition is even open source. The paid ones are not too expensive, I pay around 200€ yearly for the all products pack and that’s definitely worth it for a professional developer. If you are a student or open source developer, you can apply for free versions also.
I use vscode because I do a lot of embedded.
Used to be that you had to jump through some hoops to make it work - make your own makefiles and stuff. Now, all the major vendors of MCUs are starting to develop vscode plugins as their “IDE” instead of those horrible ultramodified eclipse installs.
Exactly. Jetbrains stuff is great.
With one notble exception: Android Studio, but it only sucks only because of the way Android is. And there is no alternative anyway…
I write small scripts in NeoVim and larger projects in VSCodium because it provides most of what I need and doesn’t consume a lot of resources. It’s a good tool, you can also use forks or alternatives, and i think that’s the spirit of open source, isn’t it?
I also have been trying Kate, works greats and with even better performance.
I like VSCode because I can run it in a development container and because its the only FOSS IDE with an extension for IEC 61131-3 ST that I am aware of
My bigger problem is many swear on FLOSS, but using Apple is OK. Go to a FLOSS conference and there are Macs everywhere.
It’s undeniable that Microsoft has had positive influences on the opensource world with language servers, debug adapter protocol, an inbrowser editor that is seemingly embedded in any website with a code editor, cross-platform C# (maybe that’s a curse though, I dunno), linux contributions, and probably more I’m not aware of. Apple… I dunno. Vendor lock-in and more electronic trash?
I am one of those people. I have a Macbook Air laptop, which I mainly use to remote into my Linux desktop while on the go (mainly with vscode by the way). I found this to be sweet spot of usability, while at home the laptop is in a bag, charging and waiting for the next outing. This way I can enjoy the niceties of having a big desktop PC (performance, a LOT of USB ports, a huge monitor).
The reason I have the Apple laptop is mainly because of the lightness and battery life. No other machine comes close to it. For now I sort of treat it as a dumb terminal, so MacOS is not a big hassle for me (except for the insanely dumb window management). I will try to ditch MacOS as soon as Asahi Linux releases webcam and microphone support, because it is the only thing that is stopping me from using it.
And yeah, the ugly truth is that once I damage the screen or the SSD fails, the whole thing becomes e-waste (and money-waste).
May people just love to hate Microsoft. It’s still seen as a boomer company by may.
I think Apple is supposedly meant to be more respectful of privacy, which to be fair I haven’t heard of much scandal around user data from apple, they have other issues though
They had an Ad network. I’m not sure how that’s supposed to “respect your privacy”. They’re very good at marketing, I’ll give them that.
Didn’t know about that. I don’t use any apple stuff and know nothing about how they operate except what I hear online
VSCode is an open source IDE. Its biggest rival is the JetBrains suite. When the alternatives are proprietary, VSCode is a win.
VScode isn’t foss. It just contains some open source code.
It contains mostly open source code. The proprietary binary MS distributes adds very little proprietary stuff to it. You can use the open source version
Code - OSSjust fine or use VSCodium which is based on thatInteresting, how do you get this Code-OSS?
If you’re on Linux, you can download it as a flatpak or if you’re on arch through the package manager. Maybe it’s also in the repositories of other distros but I can’t check that. I also have no idea how to download it on Windows. I would recommend getting VSCodium anyway though. It’s also available as a flatpak, in the AUR and on their website for Windows.
If I was going to use it I would use VScodium.
How do you know what’s in VScode? Its still proprietary.
I mean, that’s what I’m doing
Your daily reminder that VSCode is shit not because of telemetry (take your time foil hat off for one second and hear me out and I say that jokingly with love) but because the extension marketplace is not allowed to be accessed by third party tools (INCLUDING CODIUM) and even then many of the extensions are proprietary, closed source. You’re not even allowed to distribute compiled VSIX files. It’s disgusting. Reading about the troubles gitpod faced that led to the (now) Eclipse Marketplace (idk the name, but it’s for VS Code plugins, don’t be tricked, it’s just owned by Eclipse foundation) is disheartening.
Oh shit really? I knew their debugger was locked down didn’t know extensions were
Codium seems to have all the same extensions though, has someone else just setup their own marketplace?
Yeah, there is an open marketplace. It’s the one Codium uses by default. The problem is there’s no way for the controllers to just mirror everything because of the licenses. Also some of the extensions don’t work with Codium even if you download manually from the website because of bullshit like tweaking the name or whatever.
Those that truly dislike MS and telemetry won’t.
If I’m using non-free it is Jet Brains.
I tend to use Kate, KDevelop.
MS still slurping code into Copilot from Github and telemetry in VSCode.
MS still slurping code into Copilot from […] telemetry in VSCode.
Would you happen to have a source for that? At a cursory glance, it looks like VSCode only does that if you’re using Copilot, but if you don’t have the extension installed they aren’t.
VScode is proprietary and is a black box. The scary think for me is that you don’t know what the program is doing
Unless Quake was made with Copilot, that seems very unlikely:
Could you get Kate to work with LSP for say svelte or vuejs ?
Kate has native LSP support, which by default uses “typescript-language-server” for JavaScript. As I don’t really do much JavaScript stuff I can’t say how well it works, or if it works with those particular frameworks.
https://docs.kde.org/stable5/en/kate/kate/kate-application-plugin-lspclient.html
Neovim user here. Granted it takes some time to setup properly but it’s really fast with navigating through files, lsp functions and doing a search in thousands of files.
I found vscode too slow and bloated for my taste.
Having come from full fat visual studio and using fairly fast machines VS code is a breeze to use.
Though I can’t imagine it can compare to commandline stuff in that regard obviously
Is there much reason to learn vim nowadays? I was under the impression it’s mostly around for people who got used to it back in the day
It’s great if you get used to it and put in the time to set it the way you want it. I find IDE’s very bloated.
I’m in my 6th semester and use neovim so no it’s not mostly around for people who got used to it back in the day. A lot of my fellow students use it as well. It’s the only editor I use because you can use it to edit a single file as well as a whole project and everything is always how I want it to be. Also once you get used to it I guarantee you, you will wonder how people navigate code only using mouse and the arrow keys. It is just a beauty to quickly copy a code block or change a word with 3 keystrokes.
For me personally I am most productive in Neovim. But if you can’t be arsed to fiddle around with config files to get things set up it’s probably not worth the effort.
Use what works best for you.
I think I’ll probably end up doing it regardless because I have a weird urge to make everything as difficult and custom as possible
Got used to gnome, finally got it just how I liked it then threw it out for hyprland
As noted by others, if you do work on remote hosts, it’s priceless. That’s how I got used to it and I now find VSCode slow and unintuitive.
Vscode can actually run over ssh but you need to install the Vscode server which is not ideal for some
Just the matter of taste. For some users who want to get to code quickly, they use VSCode without the hassle. For some power users who want to have extreme extensibility, they use Emacs/Vim.
Choosing not to use good software from the same company just because another software they offer is subpar would be an unreasonable decision.
Kind of the conclusion I’d come to.
Would you use excel if it were on Linux? It’s one of the other few Microsoft products I think is actually pretty good.
Obviously not foss but still
Microsoft Office suite is obviously superior to its concurrents. If it were available on linux I’d use it, despite being about FOSS ideology. Sometimes, non-FOSS can be better alternatives. However, OnlyOffice is still neat and gets the job done.
It’s a battle they are going to lose in the long run. When you write closed sourge code, you make a bet that you’re better than all available FOSS developers in the field.
Didn’t Excel make a big fuss about python integration when Libreoofice has had that for years?
Ohh can you do Exel-Style arithmetics in Word tables? You can in LibreOffice. Maybe it’s just so widely used no one really knows other Office programs are basically on par with MS Office or even better.
LibreOffice UI is really… well… old. UX is really bad : it’s on par with GIMP’s ideology of “make it as hard as possible to get things done”
I disagree. I actually like the LibreOffice, non-tabbed, UI. It’s a UI/UX that I’m used to from Office 2003 and honestly prefer. The 2007+ ribbon interface makes things harder for me to find.
Like I’m used to GIMP and can’t do shit in photoshop. That doesn’t mean the UX is good though, just that you got used to it and are not willing to change.
You know there are like 7 different layouts built in and you can create custom ones. You can even make it look like world if you like.
I would use Markdown editors for literally all office tasks if I could.
Ok but most people only use very basic features of Excel and would be fine with a version from the early 2000’s. The spreadsheet market has caught up and they’d be fine with basically any product at this point. The only thing propping up Microsoft Office is the subtle incompatibilities they’ve slipped into their file formats, that people don’t want to deal with. That and the fact most people get to use their Office free one way or another, and “it’s what I’m used to”.
I don’t think I’ve touched actual desktop Office in more than a decade now. Even in a corporate environment it’s mostly their online version that gets used 90% of time by 90% of people.
Everybody needs just a small subset of that excel does, but everybody needs a different subset.
If you do not have all the features, most of your users will be missing something that is critical to their use case.
That may be but it doesn’t mean those subsets put together amount to more than just basic functionality.
What basic functionality does Excel have that can’t you can’t find in other spreadsheet products?
I prefer google docs because it’s accessible through a browser wherever I want.
You can use cryptdrive, it’s on par with google docs spreadsheet.
Is it better than google docs spreadsheet?
Try it, it is free. It is the online implementation of OnlyOffice
This reminds me of when my dad holds an ideological belief about something based on politicians he doesn’t like who support it.
“Climate change isn’t real because Al Gore…”
“Supply Side Jesus isn’t valid because Al Franken…”
“Affirmative Action is racist because Al Sharpton…”
Actually now that I think about it, maybe he just doesn’t like people named Al…🤔
But anyway, if it’s open source, and the source is sufficiently audited by third parties, and I’m able to compile and run it myself, and running it doesn’t have undesired behavior (telemetry etc) then I don’t care who wrote it, because it does exactly what I need it to.
Unfortunately VSCode is not an open-source product, it’s only based on an open-source product. It’s the difference between Chrome and Chromium. VSCode does have telemetry. VSCode is licensed under Microsoft’s proprietary license.
Don’t use vscode, use vsCodium, all the goodness of vscpde with none of the sleezy ms tracking
I mentioned vscodium. I believe many of the official extensions have telemetry too though
The extension marketplace VSCodium uses by default requires that extensions have telemetry off by default
Its not only Microsoft crap, its also an Electron app!
If Windows was open source it wouldn’t be as bad
It would reveal the hidden DOS running in the background doing all the work
It’s not the closed source that bothers me it just feels painful to use
Applications should not take that long to open on an nvme and an i7
ReactOS lol
Emacs will be there for you, once vscode gets abandoned.