Two of my coworkers frequently mention shows like “Encounters” or “Ancient apocalypse” or whatever. I’m not the best at debating or forming arguments against these though I do feel strongly that bold claims require better evidence than a blurry photo and an eyewitness account. How do you all go about this?
Today I clumsily stumbled through conversation and said “I’ll need some evidence” and was hit with “there’s plenty of evidence in the episode ‘Lights over Fukushima’”. I didn’t have an answer because I haven’t watched it. I’m 99% sure that if I watch it it’s gonna be dramatized, designed to scare/freak you out a little and consist of eyewitness accounts and blurry photos set to eerie music. But I’m afraid I just sound like a haughty know-it-all if I do assert this before watching.
These are good people and I want to remain on good terms and not come across as a cynical asshole.
(Sorry if language is too formal or stilted. Not my native tongue)
If they take a netflicks show as evidence, I seriously doubt you will be able to convince them otherwise.
Yeah. Also it’s not my place to raise adults. But a part of me wishes to plant a seed of skepticism. I have a hard time nodding and going along with it. I feel compelled to question it rather than going along with this kind of small talk.
Your answer is right there. Plant seeds of doubt. Ask questions about it. Wow! Did they get footage?! Really? There must be two sources for such a wild thing to have happened! What does Snopes say? Lmfao
You don’t have to convince them but you also don’t have to listen either.
You just have to decide that any issues with cutting them off when they start talking about it is worth the effort or if it may cause problems at work.
I’ll think on this. Thank you :)
I’ve watched some of the shows because they do actually lead to some interesting archeological digs I hadn’t heard of before… However there’s one thing that always nags me when watching this stuff – why do they always think ancient humans were so stupid? It is believed that the human brain has not changed for around 100,000 years, which means that no matter how far back you go in our observable history, those people had the same capacity for rational thought as we do. Sure, we have a huge advantage through the knowledge of written history, but even a cave man had the same ability as we do to accomplish a task with the materials at hand.
You’ll also note they always ask a modern engineer how they would accomplish tasks such as moving large stones, and the answer is always something like “I would use modern machinery” because of course we’ve come to rely on them and nobody today ever tries to think of any other way to perform the same task. How were the great pyramids built? They always claim it can’t be done today, while conveniently ignoring all of the theories of how they did probably move those blocks.
So I guess my skepticism on those types of shows is that they intentionally leave out significant details to make everything sound more woo-woo (every big claim they make probably already has a wikipedia page providing legitimate answers or at least giving factual details). Sure there are some things that still aren’t understood but just because you see some glowing lights doesn’t immediately mean aliens are involved. Even though I do believe there is other life out there, I haven’t seen any evidence yet on these shows that I would consider “proof” of visitations, but rather just a whole lot of “this is how we interpret the data to fit our conspiracy theory.”
why do they always think ancient humans were so stupid?
Because they (and by extension their audience) are not that bright.
If they cannot think of how it was done and they must be smart because they live with all this modern technology (which they didn’t create and don’t really understand) then there is no way for people in the past to have done it.
Therefore…aliens. Well, that is the modern thought. In the past it you just replace aliens with God or Gods or Demons etc.
Yeah replacing “god” with “aliens” pretty much sums up the mentality here.
One that really gets me (and I can’t think offhand of where exactly it is at), is an artificial cave network that appears to date back to the last big ice age, around 10,000 years ago. “But they didn’t have anything other than stone tools, so it couldn’t have been created by humans!” You’re telling me that if the only thing you know about is stone, that you wouldn’t have some understanding that some types of stone are harder than others? We’re talking about people living in one place for millennia with nothing to do except go out hunting for food and sitting in the cave, and in all that time they couldn’t have slowly cut out more caves to make their homes larger? Seems like such a simple idea to me, and yet it seems to go right over the heads of all these people discussing those caves. “Mommy I’m bored!” “Grab a rock and start grinding, dear.”
Highly recommend the podcast ‘It’s probably not aliens’ if you want to find out more about the real history of the claims made in these kind of shows, and how the claims of aliens are often rooted in racism and colonialism
(not OC +__+)Thanks. I’ve been needing more podcasts anyway :)
That being the case, the excellent podcast Our Fake History talks about aliens in Who Built The Pyramids part III (obviously you should listen to part 1 and 2 first). This episode builds on some other episodes (Sebastian debunks all kinds of other garbage historical myths) and some familiar names tend to come up over and over. Who Are The Magicians Of The God and Was There A Real Atlantis are other episodes that might have some relevance to the KIND of arguments your coworkers are likely making.
“How to deal with Ancient aliens in the workplace?”
Man, for a second I thought you are talking about older, immigrant co-workers.
You’re approaching it wrong. Don’t fight them. Fake interest and talk with them to investigate their stupid believes. Try to understand why they believe it, how did they get brainwashed, what defence mechanism they have in place to discredit real science. It can be fascinating experience for you and you will learn a lot about people in general.
Exactly. It’s reality TV you get paid to consume. Win win win. They think they are smart. You get to giggle internally. And your boss thinks you are a great leader.
Ignore it or mock it. I start preaching about Great Cthulhu at people who have loonie beliefs, and let them try to debunk me.
I’ve got good at reciting “Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn!” in a high-pitched preacher voice.
You already made up your mind that you won’t believe alien stuff, and you don’t want to offend your coworkers. Then just treat those alien stuff as their hobby. When your coworkers talk about their hobby, what would you usually do? Certainly not trying to shit on their hobby, unless you don’t like those coworkers.
Fair point, thanks.
You should pick your battles. Think pretty carefully about what you actually want to debate/pushback on because it’s exhaustive and requires you to research the topic. It’s probably a waste of your time doing the research to debunk these alien sightings since a new one pops up every few months.
Yeah. Maybe I should ask general questions but not push back on anything. Like “What about this episode convinced you?”. “Do you think that’s enough evidence or would you like to see something more?”. “Wow, so why isn’t this all over the news, do you think?”
Or is this line of questioning too obvious?
Those questions are just going to open a can of crazy. Some battles aren’t worth fighting and in the workplace you’re going to see a lot of them.
To me those shows are fantasy and i let the person enjoy telling me about the episode. I’d ask questions like wow what do you reckon the aliens are doing here or have you had any extra terrestrial experiences. Generic smalltalk stuff that let’s the person feel like they are telling you something cool and interesting because to them it is.
This isn’t the hill you want to die on. If they ask for your input, just say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and shrug. Most people follow these things because they’re exciting in an otherwise unexciting life, not because they’re dedicating their lives to discovering alien life or invading area 51.
If they try to debate you, just say ok and smile. You’re not going to logic someone out of a position they didn’t logic themselves into.
If you’re feeling up to it, you could just tell them about the invisible dragon in your garage, or the teapot that’s currently orbiting the sun.
Perfect. Refuting unfounded beliefs isn’t worthwhile. Being honest, kind and interesting is about as much as we can do.
You’ve managed to outline how to do that perfectly. I recognise the jist from my time in the atheism areas of Reddit.
This might sound like a crazy answer from a crazy person but hear me out. If they are good people and you’re somewhat familiar with them, just call them kooks, say that shit’s all made up and dismiss it. just don’t be aggressive about it, people can still be on good terms without agreeing on everything. Just be like “nah man, no way that happened these shows are just people who want attention, if it was real there’d be better evidence and it’d be all over the news.”
I honestly think this is the best way to go, you’re engaging them honestly, attacking the show, not them. And so long as you don’t get hung up on their response or ‘winning the argument’ I think you can all remain on good terms. How you go about this obviously depends on how friendly you are with them but if they’re good people they’ll still be your friend even if you’re too dumb to see the truth about aliens.
Bingo. People are MUCH more willing to put aside what they’d consider absolute deal breaking things when they’re forced to interact with you anyway. Arguing with someone about this sort of shit wouldn’t change their minds and is a waste of time even if it somehow did. Be who you are and move along in your work relationship and expect them to do the same for you. That’s how you maintain a healthy work environment. It’s a good way to foster mutual respect.
I mean, if you are so disinterested in the conversation that you would ask the internet how to have your side of it rather than check out the show, maybe you just shouldn’t have that conversation. Change the subject or tell them you’re not into it. Who cares if they believe there are aliens?
Personally, I find it impossible to believe there isn’t other intelligent life out there. It’s not because of blurry photos or spooky stories. It’s that the universe is just so vast and there’s so much we will never understand about this place we are in. How can it not be out there? Frankly, it takes more faith to believe there isn’t something.
With that perspective, I do occasionally find those shows interesting. Not because it’s proof of anything but because it’s fun to watch and wonder what it is. It doesn’t have to make you a believer or a non-believer. There’s obviously something in the videos. What it is and where it comes from is entirely different. It’s just entertainment for people who like to indulge in a little speculation.
That’s fair, thanks. Reading this and other comments I think I’m taking this too seriously and furthernore, they’re having fun. It feels silly now to have asked but still, bouncing this off of strangers helped. I can only echo chamber in my own head.
I tried to engage them with exoplanetary research. I am also in the camp that surely we are not alone in the universe. Why assume we’re special in a seemingly homogenous universe? I am looking forward to humanity finding their first reliable biomarker in space.
I guess we’re just excited about the same thing, really.
Cool! The exo-planetary stuff and astronomy is interesting to me. I’m loving the data we are getting from JWST. There was recently an article about possible biological chemical processes on a faraway planet. The asteroid sample NASA collected also contained the building blocks for life. Not too long ago, we got to see the first picture of a black hole. There’s just so much out there to explore.
I wonder if we would even recognize other intelligent life if we found it. Could we figure out how to communicate? We can barely recognize intelligent life on Earth. Humans eat octopus and it’s one of the most intelligent creatures we are aware of. We still look right past them.
@Joker I believe in alien life forms too, but Ancient Aliens is hot garbage about earth that requires you to pretend you don’t know a lot of facts about engineering, the laws of physics, and history in order to swallow their nonsense.
If they didn’t use reason and logic to make up their minds, you don’t stand much of a chance using them to change their minds.
For the sort of thing you describe, unless it affects the operation of the company, I just ignore it. I don’t feel the need to correct other people’s beliefs unless it’s getting in the way of my work. Or socialize at work, beyond a purely practical amount.
If it’s mandatory that I socialize with them for some reason, and they cannot abide people who don’t believe everything they do, I try to change the subject to something where there’s more common ground. If they force the matter, and leaving is not permitted, I just lie – if they’re being that dense, it’s not like they value my true thoughts much anyway.
Carl Sagan wrote a book, The Demon Haunted World, which is all about why people get sucked into nonsense like ancient aliens, and how to deal with it.
Just ignore and avoid the topic the best you can. Don’t confront. Just go, “ohh ok” and move on. Pretend you need to go to the toilet or that you have something else to do if you can’t break free from the conversation.
It’s about as futile as trying to convince a religious fanatic that their views may not be ideal for everyone; you just don’t. Ignore and avoid.
Ignoring is so hard 😅 I never bring it up.
I don’t think they’re fanatics. I just think their curiousity, with inexperience in healthy skepticism, has found a very easy outlet.
But I guess you’re right. The current state of astrobiology isn’t as exciting and people want to wonder. Maybe hard science is too difficult to sell in this case.
Enjoy the shows as fiction and have conversations with the mindset of “but wouldn’t it be cool if that was real?”. Sometimes it’s good to escape reality and pretend for a while. And it sounds like this would help you build a good rapport with your colleagues.