• Trying to be spoiler free

        There is at least one fight where it starts after a cut scene so you do not have an opportunity to adjust position. The character who started the scene gets placed such that they are easy to push and instakill. There are multiple enemies that have the opportunity to do so. If you don’t have a good initiative/athletics you’re pretty boned. It feels really cheap.

        • Assuming you mean a boss at the end of act 2 / beginning of act 3, Balthazar

          I got pushed off the ledge a few times. What worked for me was, while the first character was stuck in dialogue, the rest of my party would sneak in and position advantageously before starting the fight mid-dialogue on my own terms. It was indeed bullshit, but not nearly as bullshit as me reloading for 20 mins convincing a boss to kill themselves, so I think the game and I can call it even.

          I also completed a few tough early fights with 2 mage hands and a cliff, so really, I’m pro-shoving all the way.

          • Not the one I was thinking.

            spoiler

            I was talking about the boat trip in the underdark. My main character is a rogue and depending on the dialog choices the enemy seems to just goes first. The first time I got to it, my rogue and mage were both pushed overboard before I even got a tern. I got around it by having a tanky fighter activate the boat so she was the one in the conversation and resisted the shove. It’s not horrible, but it felt really cheap.

          • That fight gave me so much trouble. Every single try at least one of my party members was shoved into the abyss and in 20 tries or so not a single one resisted the shove. In the end I did everything I could to nuke the boss, ignoring everything else and then with my last party member I went invisible, jumped to a safe spot and killed everything else with a bow.

      • I would not describe it as a fun part of combat at all.

        It completely breaks the balance when you and your enemies can instakill enemies on one strength save that pushes characters 6+ metres to their deaths with a bonus action. In DnD rules, the shove is an action and moves character 5ft, one square.

        It completely breaks the balance when you can use a single strength check to essentially get the same benefit as the 5th level spell telekinesis (only accessible by level 9 spellcasters), or a grapple and throw check (requiring two actions).

        • Counterpoint: maybe don’t position yourself near an instant death chasm? Or invest more into Athletics/Acrobatics?

          Even if we take away Shove, the issue is still present with Thunderclap - make a single DC save from a 1st-level spell or be pushed into an instant death chasm.

          • Thunderclap requires a spell slot and isn’t a bonus action. Part of the problem is that every enemy gets to do their full attack, and then go ahead and try a shove just to see if it works for funsies.

            If shoves work to the way that they do in d&d, then an enemy going for a shove and failing would mean that they had done nothing on their turn and that you would be net-positive on the round. That doesn’t happen in this game because they get to have their cake and eat it too by getting to make an attack and a shove in the same turn.

            • Ah, I see. Yeah, Shove being a bonus action is a bit ridiculous - it should’ve been an action from the start since it’s an insanely easy get-out-of-jail-free card. Honestly wouldn’t mind a book implementation of 5e Shove being a normal action, and then just have the game’s current Shove be a “Forceful Shove” or something that takes up both normal and bonus actions.

              That being said, the problem the other dude brings up is basically solved with trying to stay in a better position. If you’re gonna fight near a chasm or a very high-up walkway, you should expect to get shoved or pushed off somehow.

              • The problem is a matter of numbers. If every enemy is trying to shove me off a cliff, they shouldn’t also be able to do damage.

                Regardless of that though, your last sentence seems to be implying that the player should have just not positioned themselves that way, but I regret to inform you that there are a lot of fights where you don’t control everyone on your side. I save-scummed a fight three times because my ally spent his first turn every single time running straight into combat and standing on a peninsula surrounded on three sides by lava.

          • That’s a great comparison because thunderclap is more difficult to use than the shove, first being a spell save and second being a full action.

            Plenty of fights where it is unavoidable, but as I mentioned in the previous comment, it’s completely different to how it works in DnD and makes some fights a joke if you push an enemy to their death or just causes frustration if one of your spellcasters is shoved to death on the first turn.

            Basically turns most fights in areas with chasms into shoving matches which means you ignore the actual mechanics of the fight to just shove and avoid being shoved. It’s sucks.

            • Yeah, totally glossed over the bit where you were focusing on Shove being a bonus action and causing some wacky balance. Thought it was moreso the fact that it’s even a mechanic in the first place.

              I mean, while it was hilarious I could shove all three bosses in the Goblin Camp into chasms before they aggro’d me, it is broken in that A) you can shove non-hostile NPCs indefinitely with no repercussions, and B) you can do a full attack and always Shove in a single turn, which has huge benefits for characters with high STR.

    • I play an Oathbreaker Paladin and I have never had this problem. Usually, I’m the one shoving things to their death if I absolutely must.
      So, your positioning needs reconsidering, or you need to use your tank/STR character to force an opening so you can relocate. OR you’re just really unlucky.
      From my perspective, if you’re falling to your death that much, it’s more likely you either like standing on cliffs or you’re trying to make excessive use of High Ground attack bonus, which IMO isn’t enough to justify me wasting a move turn repositioning and setting myself up for a potential fall.
      By all accounts, this is not a bug, nor is it a problem if you adapt your strategy to prevent such a thing.

    • You can revivify party members who fell into chasms by using the scroll/spell on their “soul orb,” which should appear somewhere in the area. Granted, it may be far enough away that you need to survive the fight first.