I see your point of trying to help everyone communicate with each other. However, as has been pointed out repeatedly in the last few months, the threat of a 3e strategy (embrace, extend, extinguish) applied by Meta is imo very real and dangerous to the whole fediverse. That’s why people want to defederate threads. And when large corporations use their huge userbase to make everyone else’s life harder and peer pressure you into joining them then that’s on them. I mean, there is a reason we few people are here on the fediverse. For most it’s probably making the effort to stay away from those privacy-invading, controlling corporations and create something by the people for the people. I get that it is tempting to be able to reach the masses stuck in platforms like Facebook or Instagram. But this comes with the real threat of destroying what we’ve build here. Restraining from federation doesn’t cost us anything though, as we’ve already made the decision to get together here in this small community.
@FfaerieOxide huh? How is that supposed to be an analogy? You are infinitely safer interacting with a Threads user here than by actually using Threads itself. Like, I don’t get it. Do you guys want to get more people on the Fediverse? Do you want to convince your friends or just turn the Fediverse into the default way of communicating with people so that if you meet a new person at a cafe or a bar to simply ask “hey, what’s your fedi address?” without them giving you a weird stare and ask you what’s that thing? Or are you just implying that we should just have, like, our own castle, where only we can socialize online and the other people would simply be some foreigners of some sort?
Yes, that change can happen even in time. But with a social network like Threads joining in with hundreds of millions of people you have the opportunity to show, at least to people you know, but not only, live, what it is like to get on a platform that respects your privacy, doesn’t bother you with ads of any sort, have a more sane feed that you as a user can control, and still keep up with the latest stuff they care about. Threads was never and never will be about all this stuff.
Sure, they will try all their best to, e.g. rank you lower in the feed or do a Pixelfed thing on whatever. Or some people will look at you like a Linux promoter or something. But if more people in the mainstream see the Fediverse as a valid platform and not some sort of a niche thing that geeks and hackers like to use, then they’ll be more likely to join.
What many of you fail to understand is that Meta joining in is an opportunity to freely advertise the Fediverse to the masses. Sure, not the whole 100 mln. or so Threads users will join, but imo, in terms of user numbers, this part of the Fediverse not owned by Meta will have a lot to gain. And when that happens, we’ll have a lot more leverage if/when they do nasty stuff. Or just shut their federation for good.
And one more thing: I get those that are defederating from Meta by principle, because of how Meta behaves as a company. But defederating with Meta strictly because of the bad users there simply implies that all of those 100 mln. users are bad faith. Are you really believing that 100 mln. people in this world among of which some of your friends and family members are all transphobes, homophobes, nazis etc.? If so, then you have a pretty gloomy view of the world.
I mean, sure, many users will be problematic (as there are on many Fedi instances that one might or might not have blocked) which would need the ban hammer a lot. Probably even temporary defederation untill the situation gets resolved.
But I like to think that these people are a minority in this whole world. 🙂 @hedge@flora_explora
@FfaerieOxide people hate Facebook. Or Meta. They hate their policy, they hate how their services (don’t) work, yet they stay there because everyone is there. If they see people that are not there, I think they are more likely to make the switch (not that will do, but more likely).
not legitimize it’s use
I never said that people should use Threads to join the Fediverse. I said that people who already use Threads can be more easily convinced to join this place.
But if you think a good chunk of people will just randomly browse the web, stumble upon these weird sites called kbin.social or libranet.de and understand how they work from the get-go, then I have bad news for you.
That is, unless you just feel better staying in a cloister castle anyway.
In which case, you should understand that not anyone wants this. 🙂
I never said that people should use Threads to join the Fediverse. I said that people who already use Threads can be more easily convinced to join this place.
How will you convince them if they can get everything the fediverse offers without leaving Threads?
@FfaerieOxide Tell them to join the Fediverse from the Fediverse 😀
Like, simply, if you tell them that they can access all the content they want on Threads (because that’s why they’re there), while not being there, and also see it demoed from you, the person already on the non-Meta Fediverse, they are more likely to make the switch, especially if they encounter any regular issue like being wrongly banned or having network issues.
Hell, even if they create backup accounts here, it’s still a partial win for us - they can switch back any time back and forth and see what fits them better. ;)
As nice as it would be to see people ditch Threads for the Fediverse, I suspect the number of people who will actually do that would be infinitesimally small. The power of inertia is very, very strong.
I see your point of trying to help everyone communicate with each other. However, as has been pointed out repeatedly in the last few months, the threat of a 3e strategy (embrace, extend, extinguish) applied by Meta is imo very real and dangerous to the whole fediverse. That’s why people want to defederate threads. And when large corporations use their huge userbase to make everyone else’s life harder and peer pressure you into joining them then that’s on them. I mean, there is a reason we few people are here on the fediverse. For most it’s probably making the effort to stay away from those privacy-invading, controlling corporations and create something by the people for the people. I get that it is tempting to be able to reach the masses stuck in platforms like Facebook or Instagram. But this comes with the real threat of destroying what we’ve build here. Restraining from federation doesn’t cost us anything though, as we’ve already made the decision to get together here in this small community.
Agreed.
100% block Meta everywhere it’s trying to extend its poisonous tentacles.
It’s not “very real”. Because people already on Mastodon right now aren’t going to suddenly switch to threads. We have nothing to lose.
@flora_explora that’s why you have to get as many people here before the last e phase ;)
You are arguing for drinking gasoline before the spark comes rather than setting out a sign banning flammable liquids.
You cannot out Meta Meta or use their desire to hurt you against them. You can only oppose them with hard walls and hard lines.
@FfaerieOxide huh? How is that supposed to be an analogy? You are infinitely safer interacting with a Threads user here than by actually using Threads itself. Like, I don’t get it. Do you guys want to get more people on the Fediverse? Do you want to convince your friends or just turn the Fediverse into the default way of communicating with people so that if you meet a new person at a cafe or a bar to simply ask “hey, what’s your fedi address?” without them giving you a weird stare and ask you what’s that thing? Or are you just implying that we should just have, like, our own castle, where only we can socialize online and the other people would simply be some foreigners of some sort?
Yes, that change can happen even in time. But with a social network like Threads joining in with hundreds of millions of people you have the opportunity to show, at least to people you know, but not only, live, what it is like to get on a platform that respects your privacy, doesn’t bother you with ads of any sort, have a more sane feed that you as a user can control, and still keep up with the latest stuff they care about. Threads was never and never will be about all this stuff.
Sure, they will try all their best to, e.g. rank you lower in the feed or do a Pixelfed thing on whatever. Or some people will look at you like a Linux promoter or something. But if more people in the mainstream see the Fediverse as a valid platform and not some sort of a niche thing that geeks and hackers like to use, then they’ll be more likely to join.
What many of you fail to understand is that Meta joining in is an opportunity to freely advertise the Fediverse to the masses. Sure, not the whole 100 mln. or so Threads users will join, but imo, in terms of user numbers, this part of the Fediverse not owned by Meta will have a lot to gain. And when that happens, we’ll have a lot more leverage if/when they do nasty stuff. Or just shut their federation for good.
And one more thing: I get those that are defederating from Meta by principle, because of how Meta behaves as a company. But defederating with Meta strictly because of the bad users there simply implies that all of those 100 mln. users are bad faith. Are you really believing that 100 mln. people in this world among of which some of your friends and family members are all transphobes, homophobes, nazis etc.? If so, then you have a pretty gloomy view of the world.
I mean, sure, many users will be problematic (as there are on many Fedi instances that one might or might not have blocked) which would need the ban hammer a lot. Probably even temporary defederation untill the situation gets resolved.
But I like to think that these people are a minority in this whole world. 🙂
@hedge @flora_explora
I’m happy for you, or sorry that happened.
You should not be interacting with Threads. No one should be, and you should not legitimize it’s use.
You will not convince people to leave threads by letting them stay on threads and still talk to you.
@FfaerieOxide people hate Facebook. Or Meta. They hate their policy, they hate how their services (don’t) work, yet they stay there because everyone is there. If they see people that are not there, I think they are more likely to make the switch (not that will do, but more likely).
I never said that people should use Threads to join the Fediverse. I said that people who already use Threads can be more easily convinced to join this place.
But if you think a good chunk of people will just randomly browse the web, stumble upon these weird sites called kbin.social or libranet.de and understand how they work from the get-go, then I have bad news for you.
That is, unless you just feel better staying in a cloister castle anyway.
In which case, you should understand that not anyone wants this. 🙂
@hedge @flora_explora
I agree; people rightly hate facebook and meta
How will you convince them if they can get everything the fediverse offers without leaving Threads?
@FfaerieOxide Tell them to join the Fediverse from the Fediverse 😀
Like, simply, if you tell them that they can access all the content they want on Threads (because that’s why they’re there), while not being there, and also see it demoed from you, the person already on the non-Meta Fediverse, they are more likely to make the switch, especially if they encounter any regular issue like being wrongly banned or having network issues.
Hell, even if they create backup accounts here, it’s still a partial win for us - they can switch back any time back and forth and see what fits them better. ;)
@hedge @flora_explora
The Fediverse is the Fediverse by not being Meta. You are arguing for destroying the Fediverse for everyone by waving Meta in.
Why do you keep putting my and others’ @ in your messages? If that’s a your instance thing it’s weird.
As nice as it would be to see people ditch Threads for the Fediverse, I suspect the number of people who will actually do that would be infinitesimally small. The power of inertia is very, very strong.
What an apt analogy.