My title might be a bit hyperbolic, but stuff like this worries me. I love to read and I love reading on a kindle. This has been going on for a while, but it has now reached absurd levels.

    • It’s honestly heartbreaking considering how much work it must be to write a book and how scary it is especially with so many influencers and celebrities in the market now already making it harder for real authors to get noticed

    •  Baggins   ( @baggins@beehaw.org ) 
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      141 year ago

      This is my daughter at the moment. Just gone 21, at university studying Creative Writing. Thing is she was doing so well with Biology etc. Changed about 3 months into her first year. She’s had a couple of self published books on Amazon, nothing more than a dozen or so sales. She’s going to find it hard to find full time work etc. in her chosen field.

      • I thought about bringing up technical writing, then I realized that it’s a possibility that even that job isn’t safe within the next 5 years considering the promising development of Spiking Neural Net. This is something I would probably suggests to your daughter at this point that she should probably reconsider her chosen field and try to enter biology or some stable job.

        • I dunno, people have been trying to automate technical writing for at least 30 years. The results have been mostly garbage. I’m not sure an LLM is going to understand what’s going on any better than the folks doing this work now, it tends to involve lengthy discussions.

              • As in actual world, providing context to physics of things, providing logical association/evaluation, and so go on. It is basically something that supposed to help LLM get closer to understanding the “world” rather than just spewing out whatever the training dataset give it. It does have a direct implication for technical writing, because with stronger understanding of the things you wanted to write about in technical writing, LLM with World Model would basically auto-fill that.

                This is something that the researchers are pretty much all hand on deck working on to create.

                One example of the research involving this

        • And work with AI not against it. I mean if AI can quickly make a filler chapter that can be tweaked, more time can be used to make it all get together etc etc. Or so I figure.

              •  jmp242   ( @jmp242@sopuli.xyz ) 
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                51 year ago

                This seems way to stem biased imho. Interacting with chatgpt isn’t really a technical skill. And editing prose certainly isn’t. I think writers, especially creative writers would be way ahead on prompts (basically an outline) and massaging the output into one more cohesive whole. Good writers can probably also discriminate between powerful prose and overblown pompous language that GPT can output sometimes.

                The other thing is I would hope that good writers would never have a filler chapter. I don’t like needlessly padded content of any type, and if I notice that my ranking of the content goes down.

                • Having played with ChatGPT as a writer, I agree. It takes some learning to shape prompts. It might eventually be good for churning out first-draft-level writing more rapidly by fleshing out those sections where you usually head off to a search engine or just want to add some ‘scaffolding’ such as a location description you know won’t make it to the final book, but which lets you more clearly imagine the space.

                  It’s incredibly limited though, once you start to really get familiar with it!

      •  livus   ( @livus@kbin.social ) 
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        1 year ago

        I guess the silver lining is that academic creative writing is a bit of a pyramid scheme, so if she goes the route of writing “literary” stuff that gets published by her university press, she will probably be able to get work teaching creative writing…

        • As someone who’s been there done that, this is the worst time to try and get into academics in the humanities. English departments are downsizing everywhere. There’s an incoming “demographic collapse” coming to higher ed by 2026 - i.e. birth rates went down between 2008-2011 by a large degree and that cohort is 25-30% smaller than previous years. A lot of small, tuition dependent colleges are going to fold. In preparation, non-essential departments are cutting people like crazy. STEM and business are money makers, English and History aren’t.

          Best thing you can do with a creative writing degree is go into corporate communications/marketing. Find a gig at an agency and do creative writing on the side.

          • I quit a PhD program in a social science and this is absolutely true of basically any field about which you cannot say “You need a degree in X to get that job”.

            Additionally, colleges and universities are increasingly not hiring tenure-track professors and instead relying on adjuncts to teach their classes. Adjuncts make almost no money, get no benefits, have no job security from one term to another, and often have to adjunct at multiple institutions simultaneously to make ends meet. It’s basically the gig-ification of post-secondary education and it’s awful.

            I quit my PhD because I loved the field but it was very clear I wouldn’t be able to live comfortably working in that field. Now I’m a programmer and I made more money at my first non-academic job than my PhD supervisor did with tenure and a decade of seniority.

        • I think that’s her plan. She was a bit disillusioned with knock backs, until I sent her a list of 50 odd famous(?) writers that got rejected, some many times. Ernest Hemingway, Agatha Christie, J. K. Rowling, Isaac Asimov etc. That perked her up a bit ;-)

          •  livus   ( @livus@kbin.social ) 
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            Everyone gets rejections. Something that’s hard to fully appreciate when you’re starting out is how much quite good stuff gets rejected for bad fit or “we already have one of those” or just timing.

        • As someone who’s been there done that, this is the worst time to try and get into academics in the humanities. English departments are downsizing everywhere. There’s an incoming “demographic collapse” coming to higher ed by 2026 - i.e. birth rates went down between 2008-2011 by a large degree and that cohort is 25-30% smaller than previous years. A lot of small, tuition dependent colleges are going to fold. In preparation, non-essential departments are cutting people like crazy. STEM and business are money makers, English and History aren’t.

          Best thing you can do with a creative writing degree is go into corporate communications/marketing. Find a gig at an agency and do creative writing on the side.

    • Honest questions: What worthwhile alternatives exist already? If there are none, what can be done? What can be built to improve discoverability of authors while moderating what is visible?

      • Libraries and some bookstores are great about picking favorites and putting blurbs about them right on the shelf.

        Powell’s always has great recommendations, I’ve found lots of fantastic new reads there. I wish everyone had access to one in person, I love that store so much.

      • As I have done with several others, I am going to point you to a website called Royal Road. Stories are free (generally, STUBs are stories that have moved at least a portion of their work to Amazon), Authors are hoping for Patreon support (which usually included Early Chapters at a minimum). I am one of said authors, link in my profile, same user name here and there.

        • I heard about Royal Road. I write and planned to put a complete novel on it. That being said, I saw reports of the community there being quite averse to LGBT content (it was in an old thread on r/hobbydrama).

          As an author there, does that match your experience? Did things improve if it used to be the case? Thanks!

          • I started writing my story back in September, and I do not seem to have more than the normal amount of trollish low ratings.

            My MCs are an M/F/F thruple, I have an explicitly stated F/F couple, a not yet explicitly stated M/M couple, and one of the female MCs has an earthy attitude and took full advantage of having magic birth control and disease prevention/curing available, before getting into this relationship. Only on her terms though, and she’s a warrior-monk who broke several bones of the last guy who tried to grab her when she walked away. :D

            There’s also a forum thread that is all about collating LGBTQ+ stories, since there is not a specific tag for them.

            I am sure there are some assholes there, but it appears welcoming enough to me. I could be missing something, but at the least they are not overt.

      •  jmp242   ( @jmp242@sopuli.xyz ) 
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        11 year ago

        I like to use goodreads, though that is still Amazon owned, it has more human curated lists and the like. I used to also use some of the subreddits to see what was recommended, I don’t know if lemmy yet has like a mystery book or sci fi book or whatever community.

      • Already have for multiple subgenres. My subgenre (litrpg and progression fantasy) seems to almost exclusively rely on posting your book as a webnovel on Royalroad->creating a patreon->Batching up your chapters into a ebook on Amazon.

    • I wouldn’t classify these books as real competition. Nobody was really prepared for this, but it’s a very solvable problem and there’s no market for books full of word salad. I can’t see Amazon or any store tolerating the existence of a product that doesn’t sell.

      • I think you’ve misunderstood this. Listen to the two recent episodes of behind the bastards on this topic if you want to get a good handle on it.

        This is half the problem: these books ARE selling. I do try to be kind, but I can’t deny that there are a lot of idiots in the world who seem to have a fair amount of disposable income.

        They are buying these books for their children, or being duped by a pretty front cover, or a synopsis that sounds up their alley.

        The books aren’t ‘word salad’ so much as they are simply a cheap facsimile of actual stories. They have the elements of storytelling, munged together into a brain-breaking stew - but they aren’t word salad, they just aren’t human.

        This whole situation is making me fairly uncomfortable, but also making me laugh. I love books. I love literature. The idea that one of the largest retailers in the world: an almost tech-giant that made all of their money flogging books to the masses cannot seem to clear its platform of fake books ghost written by computers with a little unscrupulous human help is simultaneously delicious and disturbing as hell.

        I hate amazon with every fiber of my being, but this doesn’t feel like a good omen for my children.

      • They are competing for attention of potential buyers. In terms of sales new authors are similar to these spammy nonsense books. Therefore when Amazon chooses a “new author to promote” chances are it’s going to be a spammy one instead of more genuine work. I agree that amazon should react to this as it should hurt their brand from both an authors and readers point of view

      • What’s odd is that this isn’t an especially new thing in terms of possibly. Maybe if they wanted some veneer of viability for like, a paragraph or two, but any reader is going to catch on to what’s happening pretty fast.

        The titles are still nonsense enough that even a simple Markov chain could have made them. So I think the main issue at play is whatever they’re doing to exploit themselves to the top of the list.

        • This is what I’m having trouble with: how are word salad books at the top of their “bestsellers” list - is anyone buying them? If someone is buying them, then are others buying them just because they appear on the bestseller list?
          It doesn’t pass the sniff test.