I want to buy a new car, but it needs to be privacy friendly. Sadly you cannot really buy any new Car that is.
Has anybody any experience on making your modern car not phone home to its company, by removing the hardware it uses to do?
While this seems like a great plan; I wouldn’t put it past manufacturers to throw an error message and disable the vehicle for ‘safety’ when it detects a missing network connection for an extended period and/or disabled hardware during self-test.
I hate this dystopian hellscape :(
When I was last working in the automotive industry about two decades ago, a lot of effort was being put into protecting BIOS on diagnostic laptops, so that only “authentic” manufacturer diagnostic tools could be used to service the vehicles.
Pretty sure that development has continued.
I am never buying a new car again. It will be hard, but I’m only buying old cars and repairing them. Not sure what to do about fuel when that stops. I Not sure about how to deal with a lot in the future, but I’m going to keep trying.
You can have good luck just by buying 10 year old cars - they might have connectivity, but the it will be to a cell/network standard that no longer exists and so for practical purposes the car cannot connect to anything.
Planned obsolescence restoring our privacy through incompetence is kind of fun to think about.
I have thought about something like that. Maybe getting an early model EV and maintaining it. I love the idea of electric vehicles, but they’ve just always been expensive. Cost is also the reason I have never bought a new vehicle in my life as well.
3G still exists exactly for monitoring services, just not for consumer use.
Milions (billions?) of remote monitoring devices rely on it, like oil fields, water systems, gas systems, etc.
I’m not sure if the automotive systems fall into that, but I could see the manufacturers making sure they were.
I have a vehicle with 3G that always has 5 bars, even when my phone has little or none. Kind of says a lot about the QOS the automotive industry gets.
Fortunately(?) the planet will have no future if it continues to be the case that basically everyone needs their own personal automobile to function in it.
We need guides on how to do this for all cars
Yeah, that’ll most likely disable the car / limit it. They often have anti-tamper detection in critical ECUs as well.
Your comment makes me wonder if one could get around AT by installing faraday cages around where the chips are.
I block telemetry on my IoT devices and they still work. I’m curious if cars would be bricked if they couldn’t call home, or if you could selectively allow certain messages through.
I’m curious if cars would be bricked if they couldn’t call home, or if you could selectively allow certain messages through.
I can’t speak for every car but at least Teslas do not mind being offline. You cannot control which messages they send because they connect via a VPN to the mothership. So it’s an all or nothing kinda deal.
You can also pretty easily remove the SIM card on older models with just a few screws. Newer ones use eSIMs, never looked into how to get rid of that one but I assume it is more complicated.
Your comment makes me wonder if one could get around AT by installing faraday cages around where the chips are.
The antennas are usually external, mounted somewhere else in the car and can be unplugged. Never checked if it can still get a signal without the antenna though.
edit: Also, the PCB itself is mounted inside a faraday cage because the entire thing sits inside of RF shielding.
You might want to read this
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/cars/
If you wrap your whole car with aluminum foil then the signal can’t get out. Be sure there are NO GAPS!
Probably, but exactly what you do would depend on your exact model. I would get the technical service manual for your vehicle, find the part about replacing that module, and follow the directions to remove it.
I imagine you could do this by creating a Faraday Cage of some sort around the antenna that would phone home.
In my old car, the BMW i3, I was part of the Reddit sub there and many of us were upset because we had 3G radios in the car that were getting disconnected which meant our smart features would no longer work. But someone was able to replace the 3G modem for a 4G modem somehow. So it may be possible if you can find that component and rip it out or find a way to replace it with a defective part instead, for example.
Your best bet is to find a car where its easiest to disable the antenna/cellular modem for, so look for a car that has a fuse for the DCM(digital communications module) you can pull, as having it be a fuse means you can readily reconnect it should you need to, try to find its schematic online, or find the repair manual for the car or use a car maintenance program,
Apparently its also possible to call the car company and ask for an opt out when serviced,
I vaguely remember some people experimenting with replacing the head unit with aftermarket ones, but no idea how well that would actually go in practice
I vaguely remember some people experimenting with replacing the head unit with aftermarket ones, but no idea how well that would actually go in practice
This varies wildly from manufacturer to manufacturer and even year to year. For example, GM cars used to route damn near everything through the entertainment unit, so that was your central computer. Cell antenna, on star control panel, every that phoned home. That was as recently as mid 2010s. It also led to hilarious problems where a relatively simple issue like an OnStar button not working well required a complete replacement of the stereo unit (which was $8k or so in parts and labor). Now that instrument clusters are doing more while also getting more diagnostic and digital, things are transitioning to a more centralized computing system somewhere else. This can make it easier OR more difficult to get around, depends on design.
For other brands it’s borderline impossible to even use an aftermarket system. Mazdas for example the entire infotainment system relies on itself. There’s nowhere to even put a traditional aftermarket. I’m sure it’s possible, but the design of the interior is completely based around the infotainment unit.