I wanted to get others’ takes but it seems like the only real way to get a non-spying car is to get an older car without any sort of telemetrics. I saw a video about different car companies’ security policies, well specifically the new Mental Outlaw video, and it just blew me away how even our cars aren’t safe. Anyone got tips for how to anonymize their car?
- BobbyTables ( @bobbytables@discuss.tchncs.de ) 65•2 months ago
Mozilla Foundation did a deep dive into this. And the results where abysmal. The only brands not completely horrifying where Renault/Dacia because they are European and only serve the European market so they have to follow GDPR.
- EddoWagt ( @EddoWagt@feddit.nl ) 4•1 month ago
Wait, Renault doesn’t ship anything outside the EU?
- मुक्त ( @mukt@lemmy.ml ) 5•1 month ago
It does, to India.
- BobbyTables ( @bobbytables@discuss.tchncs.de ) 1•1 month ago
They used to but stopped AFAIK. I am not completely sure but that’s what I read when the Mozilla Foundation report came out. The other reply said to India so maybe my information is not completely accurate…
- delirious_owl ( @delirious_owl@discuss.online ) 38•2 months ago
The problem with the “just buy old cars” is that I want a used electric car for like $10k.
We need a wiki of EVs that.has a section on each model enumerating which components are used to spy on you and videos showing how to neuter them.
- aPirate ( @aPirate@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 12•2 months ago
Yeah with EVs it seems like improving the privacy would be a pain, since they are reliant on parts of the digital system that is causing the privacy problem in the first place. I’m planning on sticking with a gen 3 Prius for awhile.
- delirious_owl ( @delirious_owl@discuss.online ) 2•1 month ago
Are you sure the gen3 Prius doesn’t have these sensors and privacy issues? I had a gen2 Prius and that thing had loads of sensors everywhere.
I ask because I’m seriously considering buying a gen3 Prius. Do you have any resources you can link me to where researches actually did an audit of this car to see what info it collected and what was uploaded to Toyota or the mechanics?
- aPirate ( @aPirate@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 1•1 month ago
I don’t really know much about that except for the fact that it does not have any form of a digital transponder that actively sends data it could be storing it though. Here is a site about vehicle privacy where I just looked up a random gen 3 Prius vin. (https://vehicleprivacyreport.com/report/?vin= JTDKN3DU1A000806#)
- __init__ ( @__init__@programming.dev ) 5•1 month ago
We need a wiki of EVs that.has a section on each model enumerating which components are used to spy on you and videos showing how to neuter them.
I have been thinking we need something like this but for all new vehicles, not just EVs. Like instructables but for how to locate and rip out the cellular radio/antenna on every make and model that has one.
- delirious_owl ( @delirious_owl@discuss.online ) 5•1 month ago
Definitely. But its more complicated than that.
My understanding is that many cars store the information airgapped and then upload it to the dealer when the mechanic pluggs into the car doing routine service checks.
So we need the wireless/radio neutering, but also someone needs to hook up to the car and see if/what data can be leaked via hard wire. And possibly find ways to disable the sensors, send random/nonsense data, update the software to not store sensitve data, automatically wipe the data every time the car turns on, or at least document how to manually wipe the data when you pull into the shop for maintenance.
- __init__ ( @__init__@programming.dev ) 4•1 month ago
Oof, yeah, didn’t think about that. Much more complicated.
- Phoenicianpirate ( @Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee ) English1•2 months ago
Exactly. Like I got a new android phone last week and I want to make it more.private. I want be afraid of making mistakes. Any mistake I can do can be undone.
- delirious_owl ( @delirious_owl@discuss.online ) 6•2 months ago
Yeah fortunately there’s tons of info on the internet on how to security harden phones. Its down to a science
Hardening cars is wild west right now.
- Sarcasmo220 ( @Sarcasmo220@lemmy.ml ) 19•2 months ago
Buy an electric bicycle and use the money you would have spent on a car to run for a seat for local office on the platform to improve local transit infrastructure
- InternetUser2012 ( @InternetUser2012@lemmy.today ) 8•2 months ago
How good are they in ice and snow? Probably a bit dangerous and cold I’d think.
- chicken ( @chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 9•2 months ago
I did all my transportation and shopping with a mountain bike for a year and it’s kind of difficult on snow and ice, fell over some. The trick is to never turn at all when on that stuff, but it’s still hard. The cold makes the oil for the mechanisms work worse too, you need special oil. My hands got very cold holding on to the handlebars, you need to find some balance between gloves that hold warmth and resist the wind and gloves that let you have enough dexterity for the brakes and shifters.
- MentalEdge ( @MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz ) 3•1 month ago
I live in the nordics, while you can get chain lubes meant for extreme cold, negative twenties to thirties should be fine to ride using any lube.
Internal bearing lubrication is not a concern, same for shifters and brakes. Hydraulic breaks are not a concern, provided there is no moisture in the system.
Gloves are a must, of course, but I’ve several sets for a range temperatures, you can do just fine all the way up to pretty thick finger gloves. Some people here like to use three finger gloves to let some of their fingers buddy up.
Studded tires also make a huge difference. I can ride without them, but studs basically eliminate the most common way to fall without seeing it coming, your tires just sliding out from under you on smooth ice.
Though it doesn’t help on loose snow thick enough the tire won’t sink through to contact the ground. For that you need width and tons of tread.
- pearable ( @pearable@lemmy.ml ) 1•1 month ago
Bike poggies are worth looking into to keep your hands warm. Studded tires can help with slipping too
- RaspberryRobot ( @RaspberryRobot@beehaw.org ) 5•2 months ago
There are studded tires you can get for ice but I’m not certain about their application on electric bikes.
- InternetUser2012 ( @InternetUser2012@lemmy.today ) 3•2 months ago
The problem with that though is they aren’t legal everywhere. I know where I’m at we can’t have studded tires.
- OminousOrange ( @OminousOrange@lemmy.ca ) 2•2 months ago
Bicycles can’t or vehicles can’t? There’s a vast difference in weight and I imagine most wouldn’t even notice.
- InternetUser2012 ( @InternetUser2012@lemmy.today ) 1•2 months ago
I know you can’t on a motorcycle so I’d assume you can’t on an ebike as well.
- Sarcasmo220 ( @Sarcasmo220@lemmy.ml ) 4•2 months ago
I don’t live in the snow so never tried in real life, but local laws usually classify different levels of two wheeled vehicles. Some laws treat level 2 and under, where most e-bikes are, the same as bicycles. Mopeds and motor-driven cycles are a level above that are allowed on surface streets the same as cars but too underpowered for the highway. Then the level above that is the traditional motorcycle that are allowed on streets and highways.
tl;dr, it might be allowed for e-bikes to have studded tires depending on how local laws classify it.
- krolden ( @krolden@lemmy.ml ) 3•1 month ago
Yes buy studded tires will help a lot
- itsralC ( @itsralC@lemm.ee ) 16•1 month ago
ITT people are all dismissive because you can’t actually be anonymous on the road (license plates, speed cameras…), but, honestly, I just want a car that doesn’t listen in on my conversations, sell my data to brokers, require any passanger to accept the privacy policy, or record the times I have sex (jk it won’t be able to if I don’t have any)
- GrappleHat ( @GrappleHat@lemmy.ml ) English15•2 months ago
Depending on the car you might be able to physically disable telemetry. Here are some thoughts/ideas I’ve been collecting:
- Hit “SOS” button and opt-out of all services through customer service. This of course requires trusting the company to actually do it.
- It’s possible that the info could be stored locally and then uploaded when it gets serviced though
- Remove the fuse to the modem/data communication module (DCM)
- Disconnect wiring to the LTE antennas
- A number of people have mentioned that they can get the dealer to disconnect the telemetry as a precondition to buying. For instance, here.
- Jump the data communication module (DCM) cable with a ~$70 dongle to bypass just the telematics components
- Disconnect the DCM cable, which will likely gimp the infotainment if not other systems, or remove the entire DCM unit
- eco_game ( @eco_game@discuss.tchncs.de ) 6•2 months ago
Quite a few cars also still have a SIM card hidden somewhere, which can be removed. The location of it varies widely though and they’re usually pretty hard to find.
- CosmicTurtle0 ( @CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English4•2 months ago
You need a line break between your paragraph and your list.
Depending on the car you might be able to physically disable telemetry. Here are some thoughts/ideas I’ve been collecting:
- Hit “SOS” button and opt-out of all services through customer service. This of course requires trusting the company to actually do it.
- It’s possible that the info could be stored locally and then uploaded when it gets serviced though
- Remove the fuse to the modem/data communication module (DCM)
- Disconnect wiring to the LTE antennas
- A number of people have mentioned that they can get the dealer to disconnect the telemetry as a precondition to buying. For instance, here.
- Jump the data communication module (DCM) cable with a ~$70 dongle to bypass just the telematics components
- Disconnect the DCM cable, which will likely gimp the infotainment if not other systems, or remove the entire DCM unit
- GrappleHat ( @GrappleHat@lemmy.ml ) English6•2 months ago
Oh, it looked Ok in my app (Voyager). But I added the line break.
- Hit “SOS” button and opt-out of all services through customer service. This of course requires trusting the company to actually do it.
- Hit “SOS” button and opt-out of all services through customer service. This of course requires trusting the company to actually do it.
- harsh3466 ( @harsh3466@lemmy.ml ) 14•2 months ago
I’ve got a 2009 dumb car and I am babying it because I dread having to try to buy a new to me car that isn’t full of telemetrics and other modern car garbage.
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English5•2 months ago
Learn how to work on it
- harsh3466 ( @harsh3466@lemmy.ml ) 7•2 months ago
I already do. I’m no mechanic, but I’ve made numerous repairs over the years and am familiar with and can do basic car maintenance.
- Trollpakk ( @Trollpakk@sopuli.xyz ) 1•1 month ago
Do you do any rust proofing? Keeping the rust away is key if you want to keep it for a long time. My car is ten years old and practically rust free, been applying Fluid Film every other year.
- AnarchoNoAdjective ( @AnarchoNoAdjective@lemmy.ml ) 11•2 months ago
As long as data harvesting is legal and profitable, privacy will be a cat and mouse game. Gotta wonder how much capital and human effort is invested into all these anti-consumer innovations.
- watson387 ( @watson387@sopuli.xyz ) 9•2 months ago
I don’t have any tips, but I wish I did. My car’s just over a year old and I don’t even like driving it since I found out it’s spying on me all the time. The ‘infotainment’ system is also integrated with everything in the vehicle so turning it off isn’t an option. I really like the car, but I feel like privacy is something that shouldn’t have to be a consideration when buying a vehicle. I’m just about positive there’s not a new vehicle available in the US market without one of these things in it unless you’re buying fleet vehicles.
- Possibly linux ( @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ) English7•2 months ago
Sell it and get a old pickup truck. Those things go forever
- Matúš Maštena ( @DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml ) 7•1 month ago
I plan to buy 2003 Skoda Octavia for obvious reasons or some car with automatic transmission.
- Trollpakk ( @Trollpakk@sopuli.xyz ) 3•1 month ago
My cousin still drives her 2003 Octavia and it’s still in great shape. Diesel, manual and four wheel drive. Amazing car!
- radau ( @radau@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English6•2 months ago
Definitely keeping me far away from upgrading, newest vehicle is an early 2000s Corolla and still does 40mpg.
Honestly with how cheap and easy it is to fix at home, barring safety improvements I really don’t see a point in upgrading. Infotainment is just another component that will eventually go obsolete like the ones from ~2010 that are dog slow and a pain to go aftermarket on.
- watson387 ( @watson387@sopuli.xyz ) 5•2 months ago
Yeah, this is something always in the back of my mind. There’s no way I could replace the one in my car without serious modification. There’s a bunch of shit integrated into it (heat/air controls, safety feature toggles, etc.) and it takes up the entire center of the dashboard.
- smeeps ( @smeeps@lemmy.mtate.me.uk ) 4•1 month ago
Another awful “innovation”. The screen in my 2016 van just does maps, music, and radio. I can swap it out no issue if I want (but I don’t want android auto so I don’t). The climate controls are still physical knobs thank god.
- cyberwolfie ( @cyberwolfie@lemmy.ml ) 6•1 month ago
Are there any write-ups on the situation in Europe under GDPR-legislation? Mostly I read about the US-situation which seems like the wild west, but I can’t imagine that it is perfectly fine in the EU either even if you opt-out of using their apps etc.
- nothacking ( @nothacking@discuss.tchncs.de ) 6•2 months ago
Should be quite easy to remove any WiFi/cellular/satellite antennas from the car’s computer. (Might be trace/chip antennas, so make sure to get those). If you’re extra paranoid, get the GPS antenna too, so it can’t simply record data indefinitely.
Might take a few hours to go through the car to make sure you get everything, but you won’t be limited to super old cars.
- Ste41th ( @Ste41th@lemmy.ml ) English5•2 months ago
Also ford recently redesigned their app so the users have to use built in google maps in order to track their car.
- smeeps ( @smeeps@lemmy.mtate.me.uk ) 5•1 month ago
Holding onto my 2016 van with zero telemetry for as long as possible.
- ulterno ( @ulterno@lemmy.kde.social ) English4•1 month ago
DIY ?
Now just hope the batteries don’t have a radio.