If only there were some kind of way for it to not devolve into totalitarian dictatorship…
lucky u, there is; its called just doing the fucking thing like normal, cuz non of the historical examples did that so u know.
There is, and most have, despite imperial core propaganda to the contrary. Here’s a 1955 CIA report that was declassified in 2008.
Even in Stalin’s time there was collective leadership. The Western idea of a dictator within the Communist setup is exaggerated. Misunderstandings on that subject are caused by lack of comprehension of the real nature and organization of the Communist power structure. Stalin, although holding wide powers, was merely the captain of a team and it seems obvious that Khrushchev will be the new captain.
“Totalitarian” is itself propaganda: The Origins of Totalitarianism
Hannah Arendt came from wealth and so unsurprisingly was anticommunist. Her work was financially supported and promoted by the CIA. “Totalitarianism” is a bourgeois liberal, anticommunist construct for the purposes of equivalating fascism and communism.
Monthly Review, The CIA and the Cultural Cold War Revisited
U.S. and European anticommunist publications receiving direct or indirect funding included Partisan Review, Kenyon Review, New Leader, Encounter and many others. Among the intellectuals who were funded and promoted by the CIA were Irving Kristol, Melvin Lasky, Isaiah Berlin, Stephen Spender, Sidney Hook, Daniel Bell, Dwight MacDonald, Robert Lowell, Hannah Arendt, Mary McCarthy, and numerous others in the United States and Europe. In Europe, the CIA was particularly interested in and promoted the “Democratic Left” and ex-leftists, including Ignacio Silone, Stephen Spender, Arthur Koestler, Raymond Aron, Anthony Crosland, Michael Josselson, and George Orwell.
If fact almost all of the “Western left” (that wasn’t repressed by the red scares) was captured by the imperial core’s propaganda machine: Imperialist Propaganda and the Ideology of the Western Left Intelligentsia: From Anticommunism and Identity Politics to Democratic Illusions and Fascism
Where has that happened?
Soviet Union under Stalin comes to mind. North Korea.
That wasn’t totalitarian nor a dictatorship. Soviet Democracy continued to be practiced, and Stalin’s authority wasn’t absolute or all-encompassing.
Where does a state go from a non-totalitarian, non-dictatorship to a Totalitarian Dictatorship?
From the very article you linked:
There, Lenin argued that the soviets and the principle of democratic centralism within the Bolshevik party still assured democracy. However, faced with support for Kronstadt within Bolshevik ranks, Lenin also issued a “temporary” ban on factions in the Russian Communist Party. This ban remained until the revolutions of 1989 and, according to some critics, made the democratic procedures within the party an empty formality, and helped Stalin to consolidate much more authority under the party. Soviets were transformed into the bureaucratic structure that existed for the rest of the history of the Soviet Union and were completely under the control of party officials and the politburo.
Very democratic indeed lol. Can’t wait how they ensure democracy in North Korea next.
according to some critics
Hey look at what the core of the quote you pulled is
I wonder what the ideology of those critics is
Very democratic indeed lol. Can’t wait how they ensure democracy in North Korea next.
Objectively more democratic than the US. In the US you vote for president and they appoint the ministers of every executive agency. In Korea they vote for those directly.
Can’t wait how they ensure democracy in North Korea next
Objectively more democratic than the US.
In Korea they vote for those directly.
They certainly have an interesting method.
Each candidate is preselected by the North Korean government and there is no option to write in a different name, meaning that voters may either submit the ballot unaltered as a “yes” vote or request a pen to cross out the name on the ballot.
A person’s vote is not secret
Uhhum.
Wow you sure did copy and paste from a wikipedia article that doesn’t even bother to source the claim to any of the overtly state propaganda articles at the bottom of the page it uses as a bibliography.
And you didn’t even bother mentioning where you got it so we’re 2 levels of lack of citations deep.
Gee I wonder why leftists constantly criticize anti-communists for being intellectually lazy and dishonest…
I linked the absolute most liberal friendly source for you. Banning factionalism didn’t mean they banned democracy. Banning of factionalism was done when there were literal fascists and Capitalists trying to infiltrate the party and reinstate Tsarism for their profits. You were allowed to have different ifeas, voice them, and vote on them.
It’s very kind of you to have chosen that as a source but it seems to have been an unfortunate pick.
Banning of factionalism was done when there were literal fascists and Capitalists trying to infiltrate the party and reinstate Tsarism for their profits.
It just happens that that was claimed to happen always, so you know, ban was only liften in 1989 as the article mentions lol. Funny how that happens.
You were allowed to have different ifeas, voice them, and vote on them.
Not even mentioning the lack of press freedom but Stalin famously purged a shitload of people on the basis of their political opinions. And voting in a strictly controlled single-party state, it does have the sound of a empty formality as the article had it.
It just happens that that was claimed to happen always, so you know, ban was only liften in 1989 as the article mentions lol. Funny how that happens.
Looks like it was true! Millions of people died when the USSR was illegally dissolved afterwards, and the majority of living former-soviets say they prefered the Soviet System.
Not even mentioning the lack of press freedom but Stalin famously purged a shitload of people on the basis of their political opinions. And voting in a strictly controlled single-party state, it does have the sound of a empty formality as the article had it.
Liberalism and fascism were banned. Additionally, it is not at all an empty formality, unless you think every human being in a political party shares the exact same opinions, which is laughably false.
You were allowed to have different ifeas, voice them, and vote on them.
There’s an entire wiki page dedicated to how the USSR repressed scientific ideas and promoted absolute idiocracy (such as Lysenkoism) because of politics. If something as (relatively) objective as science wasn’t allowing different ideas you can only imagine what was happening in areas that are far more subjective.
And I can tell you that the “democratic voting” was also just a farce. I can’t find the source anymore but voting didn’t really have oversight. It’s in their voting guidebook, the people counting the votes are also the people who verify the votes. That means the voting committee gets to assign votes however they want because they’re also the ones verifying the votes. From a certain political level onwards the political elite chose who gets what political position. Lysenko is actually excellent example of that because the scientific community hated him, but Stalin loved him and so Lysenko got to fuck up science for multiple decades.
There’s an entire wiki page dedicated to how the USSR repressed scientific ideas and promoted absolute idiocracy (such as Lysenkoism) because of politics. If something as (relatively) objective as science wasn’t allowing different ideas you can only imagine what was happening in areas that are far more subjective.
The USSR was overall very pro-science. In it’s early years, it went through growing pains, as their number one task was centered around instilling Marxism in the population. Marxism itself is founded on Dialectical and Historical Materialism. Certain liberal sciences had been, at the time, focused on Idealism, such as Race Science.
And I can tell you that the “democratic voting” was also just a farce. I can’t find the source anymore but voting didn’t really have oversight. It’s in their voting guidebook, the people counting the votes are also the people who verify the votes. That means the voting committee gets to assign votes however they want because they’re also the ones verifying the votes. From a certain political level onwards the political elite chose who gets what political position. Lysenko is actually excellent example of that because the scientific community hated him, but Stalin loved him and so Lysenko got to fuck up science for multiple decades.
Do you have evidence that the Soviets were assigning votes?
Just like, everywhere they’ve tried it.
You must have an odd definition of Totalitarian Dictatorship then, I suppose.
It’s really simple - centralization = seat of power
The worst flavor of people are drawn to that like moths to a flame. It’s not even a good idea, any potential economies of scale are wasted by communication lag in the bureaucracy
Decentralization is key. You can have a commune easy enough, humans self organize just fine in small enough communities. There’s communes all over the world doing just fine
The question is, how do you knit those small communities together in a way that doesn’t give anyone much power, but still come together when needed?
Australia had communism for 60,000 years and never developed a dictatorship.
Would you like to provide a link, or any sort of proof to back up this outlandish claim?
Calling it communism may be a bit of a reach, but collectivist social organizing in a variety of ways was and still is a very common element of indigenous cultures around the world.
This link focuses on family and child rearing, but it’s a good window into how Australian aboriginals express collectivist principles.
Related meme:
Let’s hear the Chinese people speak for themselves… nothing? Oh, ok
Now I love boiling down the pitfalls of modern western society into large statements like “capitalism bad” and “communism good” as much as anyone, but having dealt with a bunch of people dismiss good change as “that’s communism” has made me rethink how I talk about topics online and in person.
Now the accelerationist are gonna be mad about this for sure, but maybe you should start small, and discuss topics at a more local level. Then again the internet is world wide and everyone wants to talk about grand scale things.
Basically, I’ve stopped telling people outside of my direct circle that leftism cool, and instead talk about socialised medicine programs, pushing for support of worker owned productions and business, getting involved with coop housing. Lot easier when you don’t have to bump up against the red scare.
Now the accelerationist are gonna be mad about this for sure
You’d be hard-pressed to find accelerationist Marxist-Leninists. That’s more often found in anarchist circles.
(But at the same time, we think that incrementalism/reformism won’t work. Rosa Luxemburg: Reform or Revolution)
Viewed from hexbear this thread has 27 comments lol
Must be nice not having to be exposed to 440 …other comments.
Hexbear isn’t federated with many communities though is it?
They defederated with .ca and .world because of all the racism, transphobia and general right wing culture in those instances and that’s basically all of the parent comments in here
Idk about .ca but .world defederated preemptively from .hexbear because their admins are selfaware wolves who knew hex would point out their rightwigness.
Yes and no. They are federated with many communities, but the larger anti-Marxist instances like Lemmy.world are not federated. That’s by design, Hexbear wishes to protect their marginalized members such as their trans, queer, gender-nonconforming, and EM/POC communities.
It has the beneficial side effect of protecting non-federated instances from redfash psychobabble and shock images
What is a “redfash?” Is that your word for Marxists? What do you mean by “shock images,” hexbear emotes?
That’s how I’d characterize the insanely toxic comments stanning dictators and defending genocides that I saw regularly before my instance had enough
Mind explaining what you mean by “stanning dictators” or “defending genocides?” Those are heavy allegations and that needs heavy proof.
None of it is visible to me anymore, but I’d welcome you to view the admin defederation announcements, many of which included rationale and examples of that content.
shock images
“I saw an image of a pig what shat on its own balls :(”
Funny, the same thing happened when I realized that I’m Trans. It’s almost as if capitalist ran media is incentivised to lie and decive in ways that cause permanent damage.
If that explained it, all capitalist run media would be lying. But they are clearly not all lying.
It’s more about who’s running it what their goals are. Communist media is widely known for being filled with propaganda and lies, after all.
If that explained it, all capitalist run media would be lying. But they are clearly not all lying.
It’s more about who’s running it what their goals are. Communist media is widely known for being filled with propaganda and lies, after all.
Capitalist propaganda is so good you don’t even realize it’s almost all lies.
Any
currentreal-life examples of “communism good”?It’s been democratically instituted many times. And every time America marches in and “liberates” them.
It’s difficult to provide good examples when they’re all actively destroyed.
You could’ve just typed “No”.
All the other things you’ve typed is nonsense anyways.
How so?
Democratically instituted communisim? For all the uppity yall get when someone suggests democratic socialist policies, you sure can’t seem to find the line you blurred.
My country was on the path of the democratically instituted socialism thing. Well, it tried but the United States instigated, funded and armed a military coup and the military dictatorship that followed.
Guess it’s better to have torture camps than gobbunism
Democratic Socialism is alive and well in many countries without any U.S. intervention. You must be referring to the fascist kind.
Ah, yes, the United States famously only interferes in fascist countries and not for benefit of plutocrats.
Also, which demsoc countries are you talking about where the means of production are controlled by the working class?
What is “Democratic Socialism” in your eyes?
USSR Angola Cuba China DPRK Ethiopia Mongolia Vietnam GDR. I cant understand how people can look at a country that dramatically improved its peoples standard of living brought democracy and freedom, and not see it as a good thing.
America Bombs North Korea and Vietnam to smithereens
Communism bad?!
Hey that’s not accurate. France bombed them too.
Those were freedom bombs, duh.
USSR Angola Cuba China
Ok, I guess you could argue the point that these countries
DPRK
What the absolute fuck are you talking about.
The DPRK is by no means perfect, but it’s also not some hermit kingdom where the peasants push trains to make them move.
If you have 20 minutes, I recommend you watch We Went to North Korea to Get a Haircut, it’s humanizing and helps dispel a lot of modern myths about the DPRK. Again, it’s by no means perfect, but the West has absolutely mythologized its existence to lunacy.
Why don’t you tell the audience who got the OK from Stalin to start this war?
The side that didn’t collaborate with fascist Japan in WW2 and then go on to commit the bodo league massacre.
The war sure explains why they have a reason to be antagonist towards South Korea and USA – in a similar way as WW2 explains why Finland is very wary of Russia still in 2000s.
But it doesn’t explain why they insist on keeping their system in the same horrible broken state. Germany and Japan were ravaged by a war and they didn’t go permanently crazy at state level.
What the absolute fuck are you talking about.
On this subject more than any other the western brain is completely destroyed by propaganda.
The crazy shit you will and have believed about Korea without any evidence is stunning and can only be explained by racism.
You actually believed when they said the whole country had to get the same haircut?
Some school districts in Japan already do this to kids tbh. There was a kerfuffle a while back and some schools dropped some limitations after lawsuits. Like if your kid has naturally curly or blonde hair you’d need to prove it. (Haven’t gone deep on fact checking, take it with a grain of salt)
I’d say it’s not unreasonable that if you have a manufactured preconceived (racist) notion about a place that you would believe it.
South Korea and RoC actually did the mandatory haircuts on occasions (though in case of RoC it was justified and was more like one particular haircut was forbidden). It’s always projection.
whats wrong with the DPRK? I have family that has been there and they thought it was a fine place certainly doing a lot better than the median capitalist country.
Its a current enemy for not being destroyed (like the US tried to do), so a bunch of western-supremacist-brained people believe literally anything negative said about it, as it confirms their racist biases.
dramatically improved its peoples standard of living brought democracy and freedom
Hahahaha, oh man, you Tankies ARE high on your own farts
u can listen to the propaganda or u can look at reality.
u can listen to the propaganda or u can look at reality.
No u
Vietnam is a bit of a shit show. Corrupt and is still very capitalist.
having a market does not make a country capitalist. And yeah there is corruption as there is in every 3rd world country (and most 1st world countries just in different less noticeable ways), they are certainly doing more about it than most capitalist countries, and all indicators of standard of living are far better than is the vast majority of capitalist countries so i wouldnt call it a shit show, i mean its hard to recover from having just about every fucking building in ur country destroyed and ur forests and farms poisoned and millions murdered and even more displaced only 50 years ago especially when the country that did all that continues to actively try to fuck u over. They are doing well great even.
It is not capitalist. There has been corruption and those corrupt official have been executed, as they should.
Open source software is like communism. Held in commons, free to use, contribute to, and benefit from.
Can you find a legitimate example of “communism bad?”
If you ever been to a commune where people share food, resources, bills. They go under the radar.
Communes are often cult like and authoritarian.
Just like Capitalism you aren’t going to find any examples of the system in the world today
When people actually lived in communes it was cool though
Just like Capitalism you aren’t going to find any examples of the system in the world today
About to have my brain turned into soup by asking this question:
Are you implying that there are no examples of capitalism in the world today?
Yeah, what country rewards jobs based on hours worked rather than assets owned?
What people refer to as “late-stage capitalism” is no different than the system capitalism was supposed to replace
Just because it is (and always was) a complete lie that capitalism would lead to prosperity for working people, that doesn’t mean that capitalists aren’t doing capitalism. Capitalism hasn’t been corrupted from some ideal system into something else, this is what capitalism is and it’s been known as such for over a century and a half.
Since the beginning but not because that’s what capitalism is, it’s because the mercantilist lords wanted a rebrand when peasants started killing them
If a country decided to switch to communism, that elite rebrand would still happen. Animal Farm paints this, China having more inequality than Japan or South Korea also paints this it’s what allows people to say true capitalism has never been tested and the elite can exploit that to increase inequality
Animal Farm is garbage and Orwell was a racist, antisemitic, homophobic, backstabbing snitch: Orwell’s list.
Animal Farm was Cold War agitprop, which the CIA airdropped on eastern Europe and made it into an animated film that you may have seen. The CIA funded the film adaptation of 1984 as well.
You’re even aware you don’t have an argument so you went after the author’s character which is irrelevant then started talking about the cia
As per the original point: you’re inability to understand that the rich are greedy doesn’t mean they aren’t
This is literally on .ml, why are liberals flooding the comments.
Be happy the liberals are allowed to see this
If .worlders could see hexbear and lemmygrad, they’d have an aneurysm. But then some of them would recover and look further into it and realize the commies are right. But that is of course why they’re not allowed to see it, as you said.
Absolutely nothing of value was lost when my instance defederated from Hexbear
When a person sees no value in challenging their misconceptions, but only a threat to be shunned, it makes sense they would say that, yeah.
Just like the far right, everything’s just reflection for you guys? The horseshoe is real.
Because Lemmy.ml is federated with anti-leftist instances like Lemmy.world and Lemmy.ca. Lemmy.ml has a weird mix of very pro-Leftist posters and very anti-Leftist commenters because of this, people tend to post more on their own instances but often times scroll by all for commenting.
More self-sufficient Leftist instances like Hexbear or Lemmygrad don’t see the same circumstances.
Why are liberals on a decentralized platform anyway? Surely the free market has provided adequate platforms for everyone’s needs
The Liberals on instances like Lemmy.world are too ideological to stay on Reddit, but have read no Marxist Theory and have not correctly identified the reasons why Reddit went wrong, and was always destined to go wrong. If they were Leftists, they would join an instance that doesn’t defederate with Leftists as policy.
That’s why Lemmy.world is just Reddit 2.
They left reddit to teach them a lesson for changing the recipe of their favorite capitalist treat, but have given no thought or import to the decentralized nature of the platform they left it for.
While I basically agree with this, I would argue there may be some liberals who just haven’t been exposed to actual communism/been too heavily propagandized and seeing the discourse on very left instances could gain some supporters. I guess this specific post comment section is maybe a bad example, but I would venture a guess most leftists were liberals once
I would venture a guess most leftists were liberals once
This is the case for the great majority of us socialists on Lemmy, yes.
Reddit took away their precious apps, that’s the only reason. They have no problems at all with its western-supremacist political aims.
The western-supremacists literally can’t keep their mouths shut, when given a chance to denounce any country they consider “barbarian”.
We are federated to liberal instances
Free internet.
Sorry, are we disturbing your echo-chamber?
Accusations of an “echo chamber” or a “bubble” are always rich. As if we weren’t & aren’t still exposed to exactly the same life-long liberal indoctrination, education, and propaganda.
Top two comments can be paraphrased as " waah, they are talking to us"
😂
Hey look it’s the guy from the comic.
Federation
Would you join me in supporting a defederation between lemmy.ml and these evil liberal instances? JOIN ME COMRADE WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT OUR CHAINS
It’s worse when you say you’re a Communist or say Communism is good, and people agree, but when you advocate for AES or advocate for standard Marxist theory the same people flip on you and call you brainwashed.
I haven’t gotten that far with people yet. I have only met people who say “no communism” but “socialism” or “Democratic socialism” or “social democracy”
There are two kinds of deviations on the left, right-deviations (aka opportunists) that are succdems and such, basically defending capitalism and always siding with libs against communists, and the left-deviations (also called ultras, leftcoms etc. often including anarchism) who refuse to acknowledge every real-world attempt at socialism as “not real communism”, “statism”, “authoritarianism”, “state capitalism” etc. because real world has a habit of clashing with their ideals.
Some short reading.If you want to met those latter people, probably just wait for the answers for my comment here, since there’s many of them here on fediverse.
It is bad tho lol
Why?
Pol pot has entered the chat
The US-backed fascist that denounced Marxism and was defeated by Communists? Why?
Communist vietnam fought a war against feudalist cambodia under pol pot.
literally not a communist and rejected by almost communist.
Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: Artificially upvoted😂 There is a spectre haunting Lemmy — the spectre of communist bots & trolls 👻
Look, I’m no fan of capitalism. Socialist/communist dictatorships are still sort of worse tho… Both have challenges, and bluntly, at least with democracy/capitalism, there’s a chance we can recover from pretty much any horrible crap that goes down.
… For the most part, we won’t, but there’s at least a chance.
Communal/social services, which are technically socialist/Communist, are also not necessarily bad. Look at fire departments, as an example.
Why do you equate socialism and communism with dictatorships though?
Socialism and Communism are Democratic as well.
Social services are not technically socialist, nor communist.
How familiar are you with Marxist Theory or the actual structures and histories of AES states?
communism has not worked and won’t work at a great scale (not talking about small communes). as history has shown, it will fail at the human factor.
unchecked capitalism won’t work either, we would end up in [insert cyberpunk dystopia]. that is why we need the state to do a socialist job in a capitalist system (redistribution of wealth, healthcare, taking care of handicapped, …).
in my opinion, that is where the usa failed majorly. coincidentally, that is where i hear most communism support from. i have too little data points to make a conclusion. but it would be really interesting to see demographics of these statements made in the comic.
communism has not worked and won’t work at a great scale (not talking about small communes). as history has shown, it will fail at the human factor.
What Human Factor? This is Idealism, what’s considered Human Nature isn’t fixed or static, and changes alongside Mode of Production.
As you said: socialism is an idealistic system. however, humans are far from ideal beings. even if you find the ideal group that agrees on their flavour of socialism and manages to actually do it - there is no guarantee, that this will stay as it is. as you mentioned yourself: humans change - sadly not always for the better.
don’t take my word for it. watch a documentary about a bigger commune (small village, houses scattered through a forest and such), or even better: visit one. They all will tell you that heavy moderation is needed. not everyone is allowed to join, sometimes old members even have to go. if you try to scale up these systems to the size of even a small country, they will fail.
As you said: socialism is an idealistic system.
I did not. I said you were practicing idealism, the philosophy that states that ideas create reality, rather than Materialism, which states that reality creates ideas. The idea of a nebulous, unchanging, static “Human Nature” is idealism and ahistorical.
We are not talking about Communes, we are talking about Communism, with central planning and whatnot.
We are talking about communism, agreed. That means we are also talking about communes: small(ish) groups of people who want to live together in a communist system. I come from a practical approach: if you want to do something, it needs to work under sterile laboratory conditions first (communism does this). then you can take it to smaller experiments (communes which survived for long, usually have a low hierarchy). after gathering real world experience, you can slowly increase the size of these experiments. so far none of the countries, which had a socialist government still have a (valid) socialist system.
{…} Communism, with central planning and whatnot.
seems like you are suggesting a more centralised form of government and stronger hierarchical structures than any of the communes i personally know. what is your suggested path to avoid the pitfalls of the past communist governments? what safeguards do you suggest to prevent a (group of) person(s) accumulating power and perverting the government into a dictatorship?
We are talking about communism, agreed. That means we are also talking about communes: small(ish) groups of people who want to live together in a communist system.
Communes are not communist systems, they are their own separate category.
seems like you are suggesting a more centralised form of government and stronger hierarchical structures than any of the communes i personally know.
Correct, because we are talking about Communism, not Communalism.
what is your suggested path to avoid the pitfalls of the past communist governments? what safeguards do you suggest to prevent a (group of) person(s) accumulating power and perverting the government into a dictatorship?
Soviet Democracy was already good, but Mass Line theory improved upon it.
i give you that: soviet democracy looks pretty neat on paper. lets look at its implementation.
people gather and elect representatives. these representatives in turn elect representatives again as needed. as the system grows, this will gradually form a hierarchical governmental body. in contrast to most democracies, representatives did not get elected for a certain (maximum) timeframe and could always be voted out again. additionally there wiuld not be a desperation of power: they where legislative, executive and judiciary all the same.
1905 the lenin and the bolschevikes introduced such a system. shortly after they only got a minority in the votes. lenin forcefully disbanded the opposition, (possibly rightfully arguing that the burgeoise could not accurately represent the workers) and explicitly excluding the burgeoise from the democratic rights.
Some people say that the end of soviet democracy was in 1918. Lets go with 1921: Martial law was in action, many people where discontent with the bolshevik government, mainly workers and sailors where protesting (kronstadt). this act of rebellion was swiftly crushed by the red army and many people lost their lives. at the same time lenin was still assuring democracy is working as intended.
conclusion: the democracy lasted for about 16 years. in multiple occasions people where forcefully pushed away. this is possible, because a pyramid structure is created by the system. later this form of government was described as “extremely democratic dictatorship of the proletariat”. dictatorship does not have to be bad for the people, but it has the tendency to do so.
overall i encourage you to explore socialist systems from the bottom up. start on paper, if it works try it out in the real world. gradually increase the size and dont be afraid to learn and adjust - now failing is still cheap and easy. the soviet democracy might have worked on a smaller scale. but applied to a country the size of udssr it was too much power focussed on too little people.
But have you considered iphone vuvuzela
Every system is bad and will ultimately fail for the vast majority. As long as humans partake in it.
What no theory does to a MFer. This is Idealism at its peak.
Tell me, why are Humans the problem?
Imagine how awesome a dictatorship would be if the dictator would want the best for their people instead of the best for their own? Oh right, never happened. Communism could be great, in theory. In real people partake and greed ruins it. Or is there a great working example?
And let’s not even talk about capitalism. If you really have to question this, enjoy your young innocent life with ideologies. Not meant sarcastically.
Communism is not about a Dictator doing good for people.
Read theory and study up on AES states.
Wow, what a reply. Did you even read what i said or you just pavlo-ed to “communism bad”?
Why do i even answer, you didn’t either
I read every word of it. Your comment was built on false assumptions and idealist thinking, rather than materialist.
You claimed that “Communism cannot work because people partake in it,” ie you laid out idealist thinking, rather than materialist. You then went on to claim that “dictators take advantage of it and ruin it,” which is again false. You don’t understand how AES states are structured, nor how they improved metrics.
As an example, here is the USSR’s democratic model:
As another example, here is wealth disparity in the USSR:
And as a final example, here is the rate of change in GDP per Capita of the USSR:
You don’t have any points, just vibes.
Ok you’ve read, but didn’t understand. Maybe i should’ve expressed myself more clearly.
I didn’t say dictators rule communism. It was an example of how every other system fails too. They all failed. Except capitalism, that thrieves perfectly. At least for the 1% and a few closely to it. For the rest it’s probably the worst of all fails. One that isn’t even obvious to the regular worker-drone.
And also you didn’t mention a system that works great and a live example of it. Who cares about a theory? In theory everything can work great. I’m not saying any theory is bad. I say there is no execution possible. History and the current state seem like pretty good markers.
So yeah cool, USSR was fine. Great Gini-index and all. Good point. But where is it now? Dying in the hands of one tremendously greedy piece of shit. Partially fucked by previous members.
Theory can’t compete with greed and/or religion. Unless you just love to theorize, smoke weed, and pretend it could be cool if only…
No insult meant. Probably better to have idealists than realists. I just can’t.
I just returned from the Berlin Wall memorial and the GDR museum and all I can say to that is ‘fuck that noise’. Communism always led to an authoritarian murderous regime with no regard for the needs of their people. Yes capitalism fucking sucks but living under communism sucks even harder.
Care to explain any of that?
Communisim bad… historically.
Communism good… historically.
Big win, much politic
Sure here are a few not so fun facts:
- At least 140 people where shot at the berlin wall by GDR troops for the crime of trying to flee the country.
- The GDR was executing prisoners by guillotine and firing squad, at least 52 where killed for political reasons.
- When people protested against the SED in June 1953 the protest was brutally beaten down using soviet tanks. At least 50 people lost their lifes and over 1500 people received long prison sentences. The whole protest was later declared to be an attempted ‘fascist coup’.
well, it’s not that communism in itself is bad, but so far every implantation of it was bad
On the contrary, Communism has done wonders for the working class. Skyrocketing literacy rates, life expectancy, housing rates, access to education and healthcare, expanded democratic processes and political participation, and massive reductions in poverty.
libertarians: “the increase in global quality of life is all because of capitalism!”
communists: “the increase in global quality of life is all because of communism!”
Well, the Communists would be correct here.
Because we all know that elections where 99 percent vote for the dear leader are truly democratic.
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