Because they insist on mixing the audio in a shitty way so unless you want to fiddle with the audio-level every 5 seconds or have your eardrums shattered by action/suspense-scenes, you can’t hear dialogue and need subs to understand what the fuck is going on…
Edit: and before people start saying “5.1 in stereo is the cause!1!!1!1”, no forcing stereo does absolutely nothing to alleviate this.
Edit: and before people start saying “5.1 in stereo is the cause!1!!1!1”, no forcing stereo does absolutely nothing to alleviate this.
The ‘problem’ is dynamic range. They mix movies with a large dynamic range because explosions and shit are a lot louder than spoken words. You are supposed to have your eardrums shattered during action scenes. That’s how it’s intended to be listened to.
Could they mix it differently? Sure, but that would mean that the people who want to watch it as intended can’t. There is also no reason to because you can simply adjust this during playback. Any half-decent A/V receiver will have an option for dynamic range compression. Just because you didn’t set up your surround sound system properly doesn’t mean the movie is badly mixed.
I don’t have a surround system…I have 2.1 stereo, and even with dynamic range compression this is an issue. And it’s not just explosions, things like suspenseful music is also loud as shit which is unnecessary.
I don’t want eardrums shattered when watching a movie, nobody wants that, it’s unpleasant and 100% unnecessary for watching at home.
I don’t want eardrums shattered when watching a movie, nobody wants that, it’s unpleasant and 100% unnecessary for watching at home.
They don’t mix for a 2.1 home setup, they mix for a (home) theater. You’re using a set-up meant to watch the news and maybe a soccer match to watch a movie and then complain that it’s a crappy experience. Yeah, no shit.
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You have a setup that’s not suitable for watching movies and you’re trying to blame it on the movie. How is that reasonable? The content you’re trying to watch simply was never meant to be watched in that way. I’m not sure what you expect here.
Even if they did a different mix, that still wouldn’t give the intended experience of the movie, it would be at best a watered down version. You simply cannot optimize for two very different things. If they wanted it to be viewed on a TV they would have made a very different movie to begin with. There are plenty of made-for-TV movies that do exactly that.
You expect that something that was made to be shown on a huge screen, in a dark room with a high end sound system somehow magically would work on your living room TV with stereo sound. I don’t think that’s a reasonable expectation.
You got a smidge of a point. Yes, movie surround sound is mastered for (home) cinemas and if that’s the setup you have, it works. You don’t even need a fancy setup. I have a cheap old 5.1 system and when I’m in the mood for a home cinema experience, including the volume, it works great.
However, there’s no excuse for studios to not provide a more compressed TV mix because not everyone has a home cinema or the capability of turning up the volume without angry neighbours kicking down your door. Especially for Series and direct-to-streaming movies that never had a theatrical release but just drop on Netflix one day. Because there are plenty of those that are also not mixed for quieter soundsystems, TV speakers or people who cannot or don’t want to turn up the volume.
So yes. I expect the audio to work well on my living room TV. Because I’m paying to watch it on a service that’s available on on my living room TV and Studios know that the vast majority of people do not have a home cinema. It is thus, in my opinion, a reasonable expectation, for any movie that released past the DVD age, to have an audio track that doesn’t require me to own a home theatre. Because you can optimise for two things, by just having two audio tracks. Some movies on Netflix even have a dedicated stereo tracks available. Why can’t that be the norm?
Or, those streaming services could offer a setting to compress the dynamic range for home viewing. My AppleTV actually has that function built in and it’s very useful when you want to watch something late at night without waking the whole house up. Sadly, most streaming services use their own media player instead of the native one and don’t have a comparable feature…
That said, I very much don’t want a compressed dynamic range sound mix to become the only one available. I happen to have a setup that can just about handle a higher dynamic range in most of cases, if I can/want to raise the volume accordingly and I usually like it that way.
However, there’s no excuse for studios to not provide a more compressed TV mix
I think this depends on how you see movies. Do you see them as art or just a form of entertainment?
For me, it’s about how the movie makes me feel. I think movies are art, and art is meant to make you feel things. If I watch a movie I want to be overwhelmed by the action, I want to be moved by the music swelling at that emotional moment, I want to be creeped out by that scary scene in the spooky house with the wind howling all around me.
You don’t get that if you watch in a bright room with a 2.0 sound track with no dynamic range. To me there is no point in even watching a movie if it can’t immerse me in the movie and make me feel all those things.
I’m not sure why you get so much down voted while you are right. It’s similar how people want to play a 4k movie on a 1080p screen…
Personally, I have experienced that when you’re downmixing a 5.1 to 2.1 solves all the issues OP is talking about.
I’m only an amateur but did some video/audio encoding and it’s a bit more complex than what I’m saying here, but it does indead solves the issue.
I’m not sure why you get so much down voted while you are right. It’s similar how people want to play a 4k movie on a 1080p screen…
People underestimate how big of a difference it makes.
If you ever get the chance to do this on a decent home theater: grab a blu-ray copy of the LoTR trilogy. 1080p, 5.1 audio. Should be pretty good right? Watch it for a couple of minutes. Then switch to the UHD blu-ray (4k HDR, Dolby Atmos). It’s a night and day difference. The 1080p version is fine, but the UHD version just draws you in. It’s almost addictive, once you turn it on you can’t look away. Before you know it you’ve watched the entire trilogy.
It’s shocking how much better the experience is, it’s like a completely different movie.
For the folks disagreeing with you, I think a helpful analogy might be to think of it like a recipe.
If you try to make a fancy dish at home without the high quality equipment and ingredients the chef had, it’s not gonna turn out like the chef intended, and it’s not the chef’s fault or a bad recipe.
It’s art meant to be enjoyed in a particular fashion, and will naturally be less enjoyable when prepared or consumed in another manner.
There’s a valid argument to be made for remixing it for shitty speakers, since it doesn’t seem hard and would make a lot of people happy, but artists shouldn’t be obligated to bastardize their work if they don’t want to
Another solution would be to add a second audio stream (2.1) and let the viewer choose how to watch their movie.
Do you also want to add different video streams for smaller TV’s ?
What you want is a made-for-TV adaptation of the same story, but that wouldn’t be the same movie. Watching a movie is an experience, and you simply cannot reproduce experience that on a small TV with 2.0 audio. Even if they did a 2.0 mix, you won’t get the same sense of awe that you get when you watch it in a theater. What is even the point of watching it if it cannot make you feel that?
Watching a movie is an experience, and you simply cannot reproduce experience that on a small TV with 2.0 audio.
You heard it here guys, enjoying a movie on a normal TV or an iPad is simply wrong and you should feel bad for wanting to be able to understand the dialogue. I guess it makes sense that a BorgDrone would be intolerably inflexible and demand people conform to their unrealistic standards.
You heard it here guys, enjoying a movie on a normal TV or an iPad is simply wrong
It’s simply pointless. Like listening to music with your ears plugged. Why even bother watching a movie like that?
Because I can still enjoy it, regardless of what your standards are.
Doesn’t it bother you immensely that you’re getting a subpar experience? Even if you enjoy it, doesn’t just knowing it could be so much better suck all the enjoyment out of it?
I’ve literally watched 2001: A Space Odyssey on the plain in mono because my seat’s audio was broken and I was trying to use my IEMs without an adapter. I had a great experience, in part because I love more about the movie than just the visual and auditory delivery. I like the story and philosophy as well.
You may not have enjoyed it in that setting, but please don’t gatekeep the experience. It’s also worth mentioning that a lot for movies are, unlike 2001, not art.
I had a great experience, in part because I love more about the movie than just the visual and auditory delivery. I like the story and philosophy as well.
A chain is a strong as its weakest link. You want to tick all boxes, not just half of them.
a/v receiver
didnt setup your surround system
I got a soundbar. Some look at this like a luxury. You are expecting a receiver?
Sound bars are not worth the money, you can get a better setup for what you pay for a half decent one. They only exist because they have a high WAF.
I expect an A/V receiver with at least 5 speakers and a subwoofer. With the left/right front speakers being 2 full-range floor-standing speakers.
Ideally, you want a 7.1.4 setup.
You’re like the audiophile’s evil twin (I’m kidding). The audiophile insists on purism, only 2.0, and you are waaaay on the side of the spectrum.
I have created, mixed, and mastered music. Half of doing that has been creating really cool sounds on my 2.1 monitors (which sound like shit because they’re monitors) and then spending hours trying to get that same sound on other systems. Not just Kilobuck headphones and megabuck surround sound systems, but also $15 earbuds. That is a big part of mixing, because I want as many people to enjoy my music and the music I mix for other people as possible. I am not so pretentious and arrogant that I insist that everyone who listens to this music do so on my exact speaker setup (that would be the closest to “as the artist intended”).
I have also created pieces for multichannel audio systems. These pieces get exhibitions, and are not available for purchase as audio recordings. Because no one can recreate those exact multichannel systems the way I designed them.
Movies, however, are frequently available past their premieres. Maybe this is greed on the part of the artist, that they sell the movies, even though they know that it is impossible to truly enjoy the movie without the very specific audio setup it was created with?
You’re like the audiophile’s evil twin (I’m kidding). The audiophile insists on purism, only 2.0, and you are waaaay on the side of the spectrum.
No, actually I’m not. I have a nice 2.0 system as well for listening to music. The 5.1.4 system is in my living room with my TV. The 2.0 system is in my bedroom where I can chill out on my bed while listening. I also have a nice set of headphones with a separate DAC for listening to music.
That is a big part of mixing, because I want as many people to enjoy my music and the music I mix for other people as possible.
Sure, but that’s a completely different use-case. Movies are mixed for theaters, people don’t need to spend a fortune on equipment to enjoy that mix, they just need to buy a movie ticket.
Movies, however, are frequently available past their premieres. Maybe this is greed on the part of the artist, that they sell the movies, even though they know that it is impossible to truly enjoy the movie without the very specific audio setup it was created with?
Not the artist, the publishers. They want to wring every dollar out of it they can. The people actually creating movies don’t care about people watching the movie on TV at all.
A good example of this attitude: your movie can’t even be nominated for an Oscar unless it has been in theaters. I.e. a movie that’s not made for theatrical release isn’t even worth considering.
No, actually I’m not. I have a nice 2.0 system as well for listening to music. The 5.1.4 system is in my living room with my TV. The 2.0 system is in my bedroom where I can chill out on my bed while listening. I also have a nice set of headphones with a separate DAC for listening to music.
Interesting. See, I don’t want to spend a few thousand on good bookshelf or tower speakers and then spend a few thousand again on a surround system. Especially when a surround system has no real benefit over good stereo speakers (as I mention in a different comment). I would rather either save the money or spend that money on a better stereo system. But you seem to have no issues with spending large amounts of money on several different audio systems. The thing is, most people do. Most people would — if they are going to spend quite a bit of money on speakers in the first place — rather spend that money on one set of speakers. Not several. And it so happens to be that stereo speakers are generally quite a bit more flexible and quite a bit better value than surround systems. But you do you.
<satire>Headphones also work with binaural recordings, and thus will give you the best possible sound stage and 3D audio, far superior to any multichannel speaker system. It will also give you a more accurate frequency response, and be closer to “what the artist intended.” So you should probably switch to that. I can recommend the Sennheiser HD 800S for sound stage, since that is something you seem to care particularly much about.
I would recommend you get a treated room, though, if you’re taking audio seriously. Or really just a whole new building, with sound insulation in the walls; that’s the only good way to do it. Property is quite cheap nowadays, and you don’t need to get nice land anyway. Building costs aren’t too bad either. Get a farm somewhere out in the country, rebuild with proper insulation — maybe even add an anechoic chamber for good measure.
And you’ll need a Class A amp, a discrete multibit DAC for proper dynamic range, a good DDC to avoid jitter, a better streamer since your TV audio is probably crap… and have you taken measurements of your room’s reflections to ensure that spatialization and crosstalk aren’t issues? Have you checked for signal jitter for all of your system clocks? Are you using I²S for audio transmissions? Otherwise, you aren’t getting proper spatialization and experiencing the movie properly. And you’ll want silver speaker cables too, to avoid distortion and noise. Otherwise you just aren’t getting the real experience. Truly a disrespect to the artist. Why would you even bother watching a movie or listening without silver speaker cables and I²S data transmission.
</satire>In all seriousness, I frankly think that what you are saying is a little pretentious. Actually very pretentious. You are, in effect, gatekeeping movies and the enjoyment of said movies. One doesn’t need the perfect setup to still enjoy something; though, judging by your previous comments, you do, which I don’t envy. I’m an audiophile and have spent more money on headphones, amps, DDCs, DACs, room treatment, etc. than I am willing to admit.
I did not, however, grow up with money and I don’t have a particularly high-paying job right now either. I have just been willing to give up a lot in life in favor of audio quality. HiFi brings me joy. Somewhere inside of my heart, I feel similarly to you about audio for music. When someone listens to a album I particularly love on a crappy car system or airpods, or — god forbid — JBL headphones (my arch enemy), it hurts me a little on the inside. But I also understand that not everyone is willing to spend as much money on HiFi as I do (I spend more on HiFi than on cycling, which is a crazy expensive hobby). And I think that they should still be able to enjoy what they choose to listen to on whatever it is that they were able to afford (or where tricked into buying by marketing staff and sales).
I think that is analogues to what you describe with movies. I think that people should be allowed to still enjoy what they watch on whatever they were able to afford. And I frankly think it is poor-shaming and discriminatory for people like you to insist that what ordinary people are doing is invalid. I still recommend music to my friends and family, despite knowing that they are listening to it on $20 earbuds and can’t hear anything below 150 Hz.
(I am actually currently traveling and only have $20 IEMs I bought out of curiosity with me. They really, really suck. But… somehow — and I really don’t know how this is possible — I am still enjoying my music library. Inexplicable… I guess, give me the choice to never listen to music again or only listen on crappy IEMs, and I would pick the IEMs… not so sure about you.)
It would be okay to mention that whoever you are talking to might enjoy the movie more with DTS:X, and that they should see it in the cinema if they can, but I don’t think it is okay to force that onto people. All you are doing is hurting people and making them feel bad about how they watch the movies they love. Let them love those movies and please don’t try to ruin their experience. Live and let live.
Clearly, though, we are very different people. We disagree on a fundamental level. I think it best to end this conversation here.
Ideally I dont care.
Nah, most of it is mixed like shit
Also, not many of us live in single homes with basements that we can turn into a home theater like our parents did.
This seems like a good use case for AI so that volume automatically fluctuates when switching between dialogue and action scenes.
There’s no need for AI, standard look-ahead normalization would be more than enough for this if it was allowed to work properly. I’ve not met the content that VLC’s audio normalization can’t fix, for example.
Technically even the standard system is also AI (and it totally would’ve been advertised as such too before the LLM-boom).
For fucks sake, can we just get releases that have separate audio tracks for dialogue, music, and effects that we the viewer can decide how we want to hear it?
Video games figured this out
I don’t want the explosions to be so loud that it wakes my entire house.
I’m not sure but Dolby Atmos might be responsible for some of it. Dolby Atmos lets the engineers assign coordinate values to each “sound object” in the scene, then your receiver takes that information, along with the room calibration mic info and your speaker layout, and actually generates the channels itself based on the listeners position within the scene. As an example, if an object is moving from front to rear then the engineers no longer have to pan it between channels, just tell the coordinate system that the sound is moving “that way” and let the receiver take care of it. Maybe engineers just aren’t putting as much work into making discrete channel audio mixes anymore when the “gold standard” no longer uses discrete channels/tracks.
Turning up the center channel gives you more dialog. But that assumes you’ve got surround sound set up… Producers don’t give as much love to stereo setups these days.
I’m hard of hearing and Hollywood insists on making dialogue bearly audible, so I need to use subtitles to understand wtf the character just mumbled.
Also, she doesn’t suck at eating popcorn, that’s the suprise popcorn you find after you’ve demolished the rest of the popcorn.
Audio levels are mixed horribly and go crazy loud with music but i cant fucking hear anyone talking. It feels like around 2010 or something tv shows and movies were like “lets just forget about voices and let everyone hear explosions and shitty driving music”.
Its not my ears because YouTube folks who can mix their audio properly are easy to hear. Anime is mixed well usually with voices.
Its the studios doing this for whatever reason unknown to us.
I use subtitles 100% of the time now.
For anything cinematic, the intent is usually to get more dynamic range. If you turn it up enough that the dialogue is audible, then the explosions will be as loud as an actual explosion. Fine in a movie theater, not so much in an apartment complex.
They should release dual audio, high dynamic range for ppl with good systems and low dynamics for ppl listening on computer speakers, but if that’s not the case I can always put a compressor on an HDR master, but can’t recover lost information on stuff like anime where a phone vibrates as loud as an explosion.
Some games do this - often called “night mode”. Seems like a lot of people would benefit from it in other mediums!
Yes. It’s been a few years since I countered a video game that didn’t have separate volume sliders for dialog, for music, and for all others sounds.
Yeah, running it through a compressor should work. Maybe I should set something like that up… I’ve had issues hearing certain people talk on YouTube when my air conditioner turns on. It’s infuriating if I’m watching an interview or something with multiple people speaking and their mics are at completely different levels so I can only hear one person or get blasted every time they speak.
Mostly is because it’s mixed for 5.1
The center channel takes care of most of the dialog and the rest is distributed to 4 satellite (and usually smaller) speakers but when it’s down sampled to stereo everything has the same level
Anime is very poorly mixed, a phone vibrates as loud as an explosion, there’s no dynamics. That’s not how real sound is supposed do work.
I agree that some shows like modern Star Trek exaggerate and while I can’t hear Michael murmuring the Spore Drive almost blows my woofers away every time Discovery jumps.
However needs needs to have dynamics so the viewer can have an emercive experience.
Also a lot of people forget that English is the international language, and most of the non-native speaker can’t really hear the pronunciation correctly. Well, i don’t at least.
I mean, she does suck but isn’t that the norm?
I can’t eat popcorn anywhere without needing to hoover up around me afterwards, and I ain’t untidy by any means!
Interesting… Cuz I am untidy and cram fistfuls of popcorn into my face hole and never have this problem. But I can’t have a simple hot dog without ending up with mustard in a weird spot on my body.
“How the fuck did it get in my arm pit?!”
You probably have the bowel of popcorn underneath your mouth… when it falls it gets caught, only to be ready for hamfisting once more.
This lady made the mistake of using her clothes for that purpose.
Ah ounce of preparation is worth a pound of cure!
No! And neither are subtitles!
😂 we’re in agreement on the subs!
How bizarre. I detest subtitles for myself as I end up reading rather than watching the content - compulsively.
I’ve never had an issue hearing dialogue so I’m perplexed as to what audio setups are being used to make things so lousy for so many people.
The problem with my audio setup is in my temporal lobe. I have autism.
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How bizarre. I detest subtitles for myself as I end up reading rather than watching the content - compulsively.
You’re lucky you’re (presumably) a native English speaker then, lol
You say that, but I have no problem at all with subtitles if I need them for another language. I’ve been watching Das Boot with my newborn by my side and it’s a great experience.
I think the issue I’m trying to complain about is having two options (e.g. if I’m watching with someone that insists on subtitles) where I could have the better experience without them. My brain can’t opt out of reading them.
When I need subtitles due to language then there is no other option so the one way to watch is with them. Dubbed versions of some stuff exists, of course, but it’s extra effort to track them down.
I have hearing loss, and from this thread I gather most of you have it too lol. Yeah, probably sound mixing is bad, but do yourself a favor and get checked. Your life quality can really improve if you treat this condition.
I got my hearing tested and it’s normal (for my age). I just have terrible auditory processing!
Elder millennial here, my T.V. often has subtitles on, but that’s because I only speak English but frequently watch content in other languages, namely Hindi, Spanish, Tamil & Telegu, and it’s still on when I do watch something in English.
That being said I turn the English off as soon as I find the remote, and one of the things I least like about visiting my brother is his wife insists on having English subtitles in large font all the time. Particularly annoying when watching something live like hockey.
could it be that sucking at eating popcorn is correlated with having subtitles enabled? 🤔
I’ve used descriptive audio to re-“watch” my favorite movies while driving for work. It’s fascinating how the descriptions work with the time constraints to get the story across.
Here’s a great podcast episode about how they are made: 20,000 Hertz - Audio Descriptions
*Laughs in Dolby 5.1 with high quality Remuxes that have a center channel.
Seriously though, you can’t blame them. Audio production these days is engineered for theaters and surround sound. Most of Gen z is watching this content in stereo - either through phone speakers or shitty TV speakers.
that is also the dryest popcorn I have ever seen, where is the butter?
reminds me of this:
