It’s been a week. Ubuntu Studio, and every day it’s something. I swear Linux is the OS version of owning a boat, it’s constant maintenance. Am I dumb, or doing something wrong?
After many issues, today I thought I had shit figured out, then played a game for the first time. All good, but the intro had some artifacts. I got curious, I have an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 and thought that was weird. Looked it up, turns out Linux was using lvmpipe. Found a fix. Now it’s using my card, no more clipping, great!. But now my screen flickers. Narrowed it down to Vivaldi browser. Had to uninstall, which sucks and took a long time to figure out. Now I’m on Librewolf which I liked on windows but it’s a cpu hungry bitch on Linux (eating 3.2g of memory as I type this). Every goddamned time I fix something, it breaks something else.
This is just one of many, every day, issues.
I’m tired. I want to love Linux. I really do, but what the hell? Windows just worked.
I’ve resigned myself to “the boat life” but is there a better way? Am I missing something and it doesn’t have to be this hard, or is this what Linux is? If that’s just like this I’m still sticking cause fuck Microsoft but you guys talk like Linux should be everyone’s first choice. I’d never recommend Linux to anyone I know, it doesn’t “just work”.
EDIT: Thank you so much to everyone who blew up my post, I didn’t expect this many responses, this much advice, or this much kindness. You’re all goddamned gems!
To paraphrase my username’s namesake, because of @SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone and his apt gif (also, Mr. Flickerman, when I record I often shout about Clem Fandango)…
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall GNU/LINUX OS grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol’ Jack Burton always says at a time like that: “Have ya paid your dues, Jack?” “Yessir, the check is in the mail.”
Think of your workstation running Ubuntu Studio as new shoes that need running in.
I’ve been using Debian Linux as my primary desktop for over 25 years. The amount of downtime I experience is negligible. When I look at the sheer volume of MacOS updates requiring a reboot, or the absurd number of “fixes” pushed by Microsoft, I’m very content.
I get what your trying to say, and the analogy works between Windows and Mac, just a different GUI and keyboard commands. Linux is like wearing someone else’s shoes and learning to run in them. It’s similar, but not the same.
Literally every day something breaks. I’m at a point I have things working enough that I’m scared of experimenting because it’s so fragile.
I hear your frustration and understand what you’re concerned about.
Ask yourself this.
Is the thing that I’ve discovered is broken today something that I’ve fixed before?
If you use the package manager that comes with your distribution and don’t install random software from the Internet, and don’t follow unverified procedures written by anyone with a keyboard, then the answer is almost certainly “no”.
I say this with the benefit of knowing what’s good practice and what isn’t. I can tell you that if you come at this with a “Microsoft Windows” approach, you’re likely to spend weeks, if not months in purgatory. It’s no different from migrating between MacOS and Windows, or vice-versa. You need to remember that just because Linux looks similar, it’s a different beast and is so by design.
I’d strongly recommend that you start using the machine with ONLY the packages available through the Ubuntu package manager. If you run into strife, you can ask for support. If you go outside that and you break something, you get to keep both parts – and truth be told – that’s true with any other operating system, just that the lines are not as blurred.
In Linux world many of the distributions can cross pollenate applications and solutions, but that requires experience that new users don’t (yet) have.
One way to deal with the “jump” is to keep your “old” Windows (or MacOS) machine around while you get comfortable with the lay of the land.
The thing that most people switching to Linux have forgotten is that this requires experience. You cannot expect to just jump into a new Operating System and take all your old habits with you. Think for example about the differences between iOS and Android, a world of difference.
So, keep at it. This frustration will pass.
Make sure you backup your /home directory regularly. That way if you ever blow something up and are left on your own, you can blow away the drive and start again, restore from your /home backup.
Meanwhile, keep asking questions.
Good luck.
That’s great advice, thank you. If I just copy my home directory I can replace it if things go south? What about other distros?
Pretty much the same.
Word of warning. Your /home directory contains your documents, but it also contains configuration files. If the packages you’re installing have different versions, you might discover that the config file for a different version doesn’t work on the version that’s installed. This isn’t universally the case, some applications are smart about this, others less so. You can find many of them as “hidden” “dot” files.
You can find all of them like this:
find /home -type f -name '.*'Explanation:
find- the find command/home- the place to start looking-type f- find files only-name '.*'- find things only starting with a ‘.’
What I do most of the time is have the /home directory on a different partition. If you really do need to reinstall, it is just a matter of selecting the existing home partition when reinstalling it (do not forget to uncheck the “format partition” checkbox 😅).
Reinstalls or running other distro’s is a piece of cake this way.
My experience with amd / radeon has not been that great over the years. The open source amdgpu driver is basic at best. If you have a modern intel gfx chipset that is way easier…
https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
if you wanna read up a bit more on that
Dude I’d be lying if I said I never had issues, and so would anyone else who uses nux as a daily driver. Let’s be real though, if you have never had an issue with Windows you are part of a blessed minority. Windows works fairly well most of the time, agreed, but so does my current distro.
I’m sure you’re aware that nvidia has it’s own issues, but from what I’ve read that is improving steadily. A big part of being on nux is the freedom, the stability and the security - seems like that is what attracted you in the first place. I think the early days of switching are definitely the hardest. As you have experienced, it can be downright fiddly. It’s also largely unfamiliar, and you spend hours googling and trying to find solutions. The upside is that eventually you will solve most of these problems, or they will be solved in an update. You also gain a deeper knowledge of your OS and your machine in the process, and an appreciation of how very complex and beautiful it all is. It’s a fair but at times frustrating trade.
Keep at it, things will work out eventually. Distro hopping can be fun and you may find something that works beautifully with your configuration, or you might not. Hope it goes well for you friend.
Nailed it. I’m really fucking frustrated and needed to vent. I have no regrets, in fact moving my PC to Linux (my work PC so it was a whole panic thing for a day or two) was the last piece to cut ties with big tech and every company who’s CEO was at Trump’s inauguration or has since “bent the knee”. Its been a long, stressful process, the last of which turned out to be the biggest effort. Thanks for the kind words.
Come to the Open Source community for ideology, stay for the better life. It’s a learning curve to get in. After that it’ll open more doors and be much more relaxing to run OSS operating environments than you think.
The real fun is when you’ve been on Linux for a few years and are forced to do some tasks on a Windows machine. It’s amazing how bad the Windows UI and tooling is, but it’s hard to see until you can look with some perspective.
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: it starts with hardware.
It’s sad to say but a flawless Linux experience out of the box often comes from picking the right hardware first. Chose vendors who actively support Linux. AMD/Intel CPUs, APUs and/or GPUs. Intel WiFi card. Everything else should work ootb except most fingerprint sensors. Avoid laptops with dGPUs. Avoid nVidia. Hardware support comes from hardware vendors, the days of janky community drivers have been over for almost 2 decades. When it’s time for you to replace your hardware, do your homework first and/or buy from companies who sell Linux machines (Framework, Tuxedo, Slimbook, Starlabs, System76, some Dells, some Lenovos, etc). You can still buy from random companies but there won’t be any guarantees.
Then, the choice of distro in kinda important but not that much. In my 20+ years of actively using and working with Linux, both in the desktop and server space, I’ve always found Ubuntu and its derivatives kind of janky. I’m a lifelong Debian user, but my best experience on modern hardware have been Fedora on my main laptop and its atomic derivative Bazzite on my gaming rig. Bazzite also comes with a nVidia-specific image for those who can’t/wont replace their GPU.
Nowadays to limit interactions between system and user-facing applications, I tend to install most things from Flathub. It might not help with hardware issues, but it helps with stability.
This is pretty much my take, almost exactly.
I don’t game so don’t have to worry about powerful GPUs et cetera.
Starting with the right hardware just makes everything easy.
I’ve also been using debian stable since forever. Avoiding jumping across to the latest shiny new OS has just made everything boring and predictable and maintainable.
What you say is especially true for laptops, those have the highest chance of having weird non-standard components that give a lot of problems on Linux.
Much easier on desktops, especially if you build your own, you get to choose which components go into it.
Nvidia is shit on laptops but it’s fine on desktops.
I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years, always had Nvidia on my self-built desktops, my experience has always been flawless, I just have to install proprietary drivers.
My experience with laptops has been hit and miss, until I learned to buy laptops “full Intel only”, on those everything works out of the box.
A good tip is to search the Amazon reviews before you get a laptop for “Linux”. Even if you don’t buy it there, you’ll often find one or two Linux users saying how well everything worked, or didn’t.
This
I go out of my way to look for Linux-libre compatible hardware and everything “just works.” Sure it’s not a gaming rig but I don’t expect it to be. Expecting some random “Linux” to be a drop in replacement for Windows is going to disappoint.
SAMETIME, a mostly apple comedy/news channel has a really good three video series of trying Linux as an absolute beginner. He tries asahi linux back when it was in very early development and of course most things just didn’t work. He then tried ubuntu which ended up with heaps of errors and he had a pretty bad experience still. Then he tried linux mint and ended up being pretty happy with it. this is him trying mint
did windows just work? It didn’t for me
Most people are so used to the windows bullshit that they don’t even recognise it anymore, Linux (especially fedora) has been much more stable for me.
Also, the problem is always nvidia
I’m gonna be honest, I don’t remember the last time I had a problem with windows. I had some issues getting a media server set up that ended up being the router my ISP gave me, I had an issue with the 11 “upgrade” that ended up being a BIOS setting. But the last time I had an issue that was actually Windows related was on a previous computer, and my desktop is damn near geriatric.
Fair enough, although I don’t really remember having an issue with linux either, atleast for the last couple of years. Apart from getting my nvidia gpu to work properly on my laptop, but that’s jank on windows aswell. Not everyone has issues on either, but I use windows at work and fedora at home and I notice way more jank on windows personally
Good stuff. As much as I hate Microsoft and everything they do, if you’re enjoying a stable system, and don’t mind the injected Spyware and ramsonware that comes with windows by default, enjoy.
Not everyone has to like Linux.
What ransomware?
Leave your data synchronizing with their cloud, pass the limit, miss 1 payment and see how that goes for you when you try to get your data. Good luck.
I have tried twice getting a notice of failed payment due to change of banks and therefore change of credit card. But then I gave it the new card’s details and everything was good. However, I don’t remember if I was passed some doomsday deadline or not.
Not saying it’s not an issue and I would consider it bad business for Microsoft to delete users data without proper notifications and a long enough time frame to fix any payment issues. However, deleting data online is not ransomware - if Microsoft deletes the data, then they have nothing to hold ransom.
I may be extra paranoid, but I’m almost certain that, even if they delete it from your folders (I don’t think they do, at least not Right away), they still keep it for maintaining a profile of each person. As for the ransomware, yeah, if you don’t pay them, you’re likely to lose access. That’s the definition of ransom, no?
I had windows issues this morning, trying to set the aeay message expiry in teams. When I click the date … no problem, when I click time there is a long scroll list of times, when I go to move mouse over a time it closes the time picker window because it thinks I have moused off of it. I tried various mouse methods and acrolling. Had to resort to keyboard only to move and select.
My advice would be, only use vanilla/default/official versions of the most popular distros. Ubuntu, not Ubuntu Studio, Fedora, not (I don’t know what variants there are) Fedora. Do not use specialized distros, for example a gaming distro. Do not use 3rd party repos. Do not manually install any packages from anywhere. If you want something and official repos of your official distro cannot do it, just don’t do it. Do not try to find a workaround and make it happen.
After using Linux for a while you’ll become more comfortable with it and you’ll slowly start moving outside the above limitations. The best and worst thing about Linux is that your OS is yours and you can tinker with all of its parts. But you shouldn’t, at the beginning. If you were to tinker with Windows like that, it would also break.
Immutable distros imo help developers with this issue of subvariants a lot. Each immutable distro will have the same behavior, the only difference is hardware interactions. This helps with debugging.
Developers, yes. Beginners, I don’t think so.
Idk, android is basically an immutable linux distro. Seems to work fine for the whole world really
You can mess up android by installing third party apps, using shizuku, or rooting. If there is a distro as strict as vanilla android is for the average user, then you are right. I’m talking no root, no sudo, only official flatpak apps can be installed and only user’s home directory is r/w.
Even for an intermediate user, immutable might be a good choice, but it is extra unneeded complexity for a beginner, according to my experience with those type of distro in the past.
But people are different. Some might feel right at home.
Honestly? Yeah so far. I swapped to Bazzite after getting a new AMD rig in early July. There was a little bit of setup for the first few weeks, but it’s worked perfectly for the whole last month.
I did have many, many issues on my last computer when I was on an Nvidia card though. My impressions are that Linux can be very hardware dependent, and Nvidia is kinda notorious for not supporting their hardware.
What you are experiencing is called a learning curve. Don’t let it get you angry, learn from it. NVIDIA is known to be problematic for Linux users (I have had my share of issues with my 2080 Ti) but once it is setup it is problem free. Librewolf is known to be one of the chunkier options, but 3gb really isn’t that much for modern systems (especially if you have 16 or 32gb of memory). I would personally take Librewolf’s privacy features over closed-source Vivaldi any day. Linux overall is much more efficient than Windows and I would bet that your system idle memory usage with nothing open is lower than it was with Windows.
Not flawless, but also not catastrophic.
It seems like the problems I encounter lessen (or lessen in difficulty to troubleshoot) as I use arch linux more and more.
If you use amd hardware, then I guess you’ll have a good time with the distros. Most “user friendly” distros should work out of the box. Try switching to something other than debian based.
With the nvidia open kernel modules, it has been rather hassle free for me.
Also remember to check the arch wiki. It’s a great resource.
NVIDIA
Welp, there’s your problem. I have an NVIDIA card as well and it’s been the source of at least 95% of my Linux headaches.
I’ve tried a few distros and Linux Mint was definitely the most “just works” for me. Make sure you’re using the proprietary NVIDIA drivers, regardless of what option you choose. Currently I use SpiralLinux (Debian with a few tweaks) because I really like the BTRFS snapshots and fell in love with KDE during my distro-hopping, but Mint is what I would recommend to the vast majority of people.
I use Nvidia on desktop and haven’t had any issues
I use arch and cachyOS
I’m not sure what people do that kill their system frequently, and I like to think I’m over-thinkering with things.
Ubuntu Studio? Why?
Why not? Genuinely asking.
Ubuntu Studio is for professional creators who know quite a bit about Linux. It chooses systems (like JACK) that are really exceptionally good at content creation, but don’t Just Work™️. It is the exact opposite of what I would recommend to a Linux noob, and I’m not surprised at all that OP has had constant issues with it. It is not made for people like OP.
I have nothing against Ubuntu Studio as a distro. It is made for a certain group of people, and OP is not in that group. That’s why I’m wondering why OP chose it. Who directed OP to dip their toes into Linux with a distro like Ubuntu Studio?
I’m a freelance voice actor and musician. I was concerned I wouldn’t be able to do what I need to do and Ubuntu Studio seemed safest as it’s “designed” for this stuff.
It is designed for that stuff, but it’s not designed for Linux novices. Any distro can do that kind of stuff. Ubuntu Studio makes choices that are only intended for that kind of stuff. Pipewire is almost as good as JACK in that regard. The only difference is Pipewire has slightly higher latency. Ubuntu Studio also has a very slim desktop environment and a real-time optimized kernel that are specifically to reduce latency in audio and video processing. Unless you need real-time audio and video processing with extremely low latency (like you’re streaming and using tens of audio/video sources), I would highly recommend trying out another distro. Ubuntu Studio is a very good distro, but it is not user friendly. I would say you have to be quite familiar with Linux to have a good time with Ubuntu Studio.
Since you’re using your machine for other things besides content creation, a general purpose OS should be what you’re aiming for. I’d recommend either Mint or Fedora.
Good to hear someone say it’s a good distro. I’m totally fine learning as I go, just didn’t realize how different they can be. Kinda thought it was Arch for the pros and everything else was accessible easily. I’m loving learning it, and happy to hear I picked a bit of a harder one to start, it’s how I learn best. I was just frustrated.
Unfortunately the only audio I’ve been able to get to work right for my use case is Alsa, I can’t route anything through my mic interfaces with Pipewire or JACK.
I’m getting the hang of it, but it doesn’t help that my PC is also my media server so that was another layer to figure out. It’s been a journey.
Check out Helvum for routing audio through Pipewire. It’s a patchbay that just lets you drag and drop the wires to connect things. I use Carla, personally, which lets you also add things like compressors and sidechains, but Carla is a lot heavier, so Helvum is a good place to start.
Also, anything that works for JACK should work for Pipewire, because Pipewire implements a JACK compatible audio server.
Technically, ALSA is always running and controlling the hardware directly, but it can only accept one audio stream, so you put an audio server in front of it to allow multiple streams. It used to be just JACK for professional stuff and Pulseaudio for consumer stuff. Then Pipewire came along as the best of both worlds. It uses Wireplumber to manage the session (connect things automatically), and implements a JACK compatible server and a Pulse compatible server so everything can connect to it.
you tried one distro and it’s not working out, just go and try another one. i had to try a few before i found that mint works the best for me. it has some very minor flaws but it’s been smoother than wintoes
Wintoes
I know I’m very late to the party and any comment in a thread with 200+ posts is like yelling at the void.
BUT
My experience with Windows has hardly been “it just works”. In fact it has been a history of decades of tinkering and messing around with it to try and get it to do what I want.
The only difference is that Windows obscures everything, so when something breaks it does so quietly. Meaning you might not notice… Or. More likely. It’ll just crash out and you don’t even have an error code to google.
This isn’t to say that Linux isn’t a balancing act of constant maintenance. It is. Just… The Windows experience was never “better” for me from that angle. And… On some level, I enjoy all the tinkering. I think all Linux folks do.
Still new with Linux as my regular desktop at home, after ditching Windows (kind of), I’m amazed by the level of things I can try to go into a try to make stuff work, that does not do as I want to. But also, annoyed about the level of things that sometimes needs to get tweaked and thinking “why the hell do I need to make these changes” like super fast scrolling in Firefox for whatever reason.
Windows have more or less “just worked” for me for the last 30 years (not remembering anything too critical, always better than every Linux attempt until recently). But I also didn’t treat Windows in a way that I had to reinstall it every 6 months (whatever that causes that). What have gotten me over the tipping point with Windows is all the push for me to subscribe to extra things (OneDrive), use Microsoft things (like Bing, even though I used to use it over Google), Edge trying to trick you into using Edge and copy your stuff from Chrome, and changing defaults to Microsoft apps.
At work I changed to a Mac. I was actually surprise at how many graphics issues I have noticed and other weird minor bugs. The biggest issue here is the keyboard layout when you remote into Windows servers and some modifier keys are mapped differently combined with non-English keyboard layout.
Regarding the specific issues mentioned: Nvidia support is subpar on Linux. There’s many distros that are specifically designed to handle all the graphics support for gaming and Ubuntu isn’t one of them.
Little bit of lore here: When I first started using Linux Nvidia support was better than ATI because they actually bothered to maintain a proprietary Linux driver. There were open source drivers for both but they weren’t performant. The proprietary ATI driver existed but it was maintained by one dude and required a goat sacrifice to install correctly. Since then, however, maybe after AMD bought ATI, they started investing in the open source driver. After that the open source driver just works and competes with the proprietary Nvidia driver. After that I’ve been brand loyal to AMD.
LibreWolf chewing up 3.2Gb is regrettably just normal for a modern browser. Firefox and Chrome will do this too. I’d be genuinely impressed though if Vivaldi has avoided that.
You might like bazzite. I think it auto installs everything and has the discover store for installing flatpacks. Bazzite is based on steam os and is KDE on top of fedora. Its annoying to install software outside of flatpack, so im graduating to debian this weekend, but its a good first distro imo.
Linux is annoying to learn. Debian supposedly is a much more simple version of linux without the immutable FS, which i like. You have to install your software yourself however. Bazzite is good if you want a minimal hassle install but not much customizability outside of the flatpack system.
Linux is worth it if you can get your head around it. I have been using it for a few years and im sort of figuring it out finally and I will mever gocback to windows again. The one thing that temps me to use windows again is the ease of installing software, like adb and java and stuff.
Alao dont forget to download lutris and install proton GE which has wider support for games(extra visual C redistributables and stuff) windows is basically dying at this point. It kills my storage and constantly is lagging because of the security stuff and file scanning. Many games have a 15% penelty in windows these days compared to emulating in proton on linux. Windows is consitently becoming less backward compatible with each update and is mostly just spyware at this point. Might as well bite the bullet and just dig into linux for a few years until you figure it out.
I don’t know if it’s of any solace, Linux used to be a much more… ahem… “involved” experience a decade or two ago. This was more-or-less the norm:
I can’t really say what the newcomer experience is nowadays, but I can say for sure that even in the worst-case (as it was in the times when I started using it), after a couple months of furious issue-fixing and trying new things, you will eventually settle on a setup that works for you. Some people actually get addicted to all the problem-solving and start looking for more issues to fix; some start distrohopping to find a “more perfect setup”, getting their fix of issue-fixing in the process. If you’re not one of them, congrats, at that point you can (mostly) just continue using it, until you need to update your hardware, then process may or may not be repeated depending on your luck. If you really hate fixing issues twice, you can look in the direction of declarative distros like NixOS or Guix, but I will warn you that the two-three months of furious hacking is still very much a thing here, but after that you’re set more or less for life.
