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I had a look at some stats regarding how EU citizens perceive the EU. I found this recent EU survey which interestingly shows that EU citizens trust the EU more than they trust their national governments:
Also that link says that “74% say that, taking everything into account, their country has benefited from being a member of the EU”. So perhaps the EU will survive and strengthen, despite its critics like those in the Trump administration.
Apes together strong!
Europe is a vassal state of the US, as we’re seeing with Venezuela now.
We even saw this with trade negotiations in 2025, where after Trump applied tariffs to the EU following the Big Bootycheeks Bill and the EU retaliated, that retaliation swiftly went away as Trump forced Europe to buy Americans’ food, technology, cars, and energy, to invest in US businesses, to loosen the EU’s policies towards good corporate governance and sustainable as it applies to US businesses doing trade in Europe, as well as an assortment of other actions.
So while you might believe that a United Europe can stand up to the US and China, you forget how much the EU relies on both of them. Yes, including China, which the EU would be smart to build ties with as the becomes more and more the 4th Reich.
If I want to purchase well made goods, I always look to Europe. The new watch band I got for Christmas came from a European maker (Watch-straps). The headphones I purchased last year came from Europe (Fairphone). The undershirts, underwear, and socks I bought last year all came from Europe (Dedicated).
Europe has some of the best policies in the world for fair trade and good economic production, sans socialism in China.
Just don’t forget where the EU sits on the global stage. It’s not on the same level as the US and China, two superpowers.
Saying Europe is a US vassal state is a bit much lol. Europe is one of the biggest economic powers in the world together with the US and China. They all export and import a lot of wares between each other and thus depend on each other. The tariff deal the EU got with the US wasn’t that great and the leader of the European commission, Ursula von der Leyen, got some backlash because of that but I guess her tactic was to just appease Trump so they will have more time to transition away from the US in some areas. On the other hand that deal reduced some very annoying tariffs on steel and car parts, so it was partially successful.
transition away from the US
And transition to China 🙂
deleted by creator
Most people in the smaller EU countries are very keenly aware that without the power of the group to face the World’s large countries they would be nothing more than footballs for the big powers, same as before the EU.
It’s not by chance that the only country to ever leave was big-sized (in Europe terms, but mid-sized in World terms) one with nationalistic delusions of grandeur leftover from the time when they headed an Empire.
That’s ironic, in a way, that there’s no Ukraine among those flags. Adding it would actually make the EU much stronger. A real life modern war experience (literally the most experienced country on the planet), plus the biggest country in Europe. With quite a large international community of emigrants (due to harsh historical circumstances). Plus experience filtering Russian propaganda, which is quite strong and influential (for those unaware).
I agree that Ukraine would be a good addition to the EU (I hope that both the war and the EU join process will finish), but this meme is just about the EU not being a federation yet, so there’s no reason to add the Ukrainian flag now.
I’m not sure on the federation thing (I just don’t understand how it would work for the EU), but I’m 100% sure when Russia would become a set of independent states (and not a federation it pretends it is), global terrorism would just go incredibly less, within one day, literally. They contribute to global chaos quite a lot. Especially backed by PRC and the US (administration) being a Russian puppet.
So when the US trained and armed terrorists all over the world under every previous administration, was it still due to orders to the Kremlin? Or did the Kremlin order the Trump administration to do the thing we’ve been doing for a century?
Putin: Agent Trump, we need you to genocide Muslims, overthrow governments in South America, prepare for war with communists, and oppress brown people back home.
Trump: Don’t tell me how to do my fucking job.
Putin also knows how strong Europe would be with Ukraine, which is likely why he is so hell bent on destabilising the bloc and taking Ukraine for himself. The sad part is it seems to be working for him. Even if he doesn’t get Ukraine the way he hoped, the campaign to destabilise the bloc is worrying.
Second biggest economy in the world by GDP and PPP.
Yeahhhh, no…
China’s wet dream or what?
At this point, I’m so miserable, that I agree, and accept our new Chinese overlords. We lost the fight for humanity long ago, I at least want to live a bit.
Nope, the EU population is larger than the US, where we are lacking is in our military power.
And are ramping up, faster than I would have believed possible 5 years ago.
OK so you are a evronationalist militarist, nice to know there are so many right-wingers on Lemmy now… ( ,⩌‘︿’⩌,)
Well, you kinda need military power, even if you don’t use it, you can’t expect countries to not attack you and just be diplomatic. Also, don’t accuse people of being [insert here ideology], it’s just childish and not better than attacking them
How many of those weapons are going to end up in Israel’s hands?
Weird strawman…
It’s not a “strawman.” I understand that most people on here don’t want the weapons going to Israel, which is why I made the point. But the reality is that, once a weapon is built, it’s in the hands of politicians to give to whoever they like. If those politicians are pro-Israel, then even if you want the weapons for the purpose of defense, there’s a significant likelihood they’ll be used to perform genocide.
It absolutely is a strawman, no one mentioned Israel in the discussion before you, it is also not a reason to stop increasing defense spending right now that we need to defend against Russia.
Well, you kinda need military power
First of all, no. The whole idea of globalization is that if you have economic entanglement the wars will not be profitable.
Also there are other ways of keeping military strength without having very big military see Switzerland and all guerrilla groups successfully repelling much bigger opponents like the US.
Also, don’t accuse people of being [insert here ideology], it’s just childish and not better than attacking them
I mostly agree, but the meme created does represent this ideology and you can attack problematic ideologies.
@JustJack23@slrpnk.net wrote:
Also there are other ways of keeping military strength without having very big military
You’re right! Europe can just defend itself with thougts and prayers. Why didn’t all the bureaucrats from Brussels think about this? Omg, you’re a genius!
military strength without having very big military see Switzerland
Switzerland has mandatory military service. If you include reserves, it has a bigger military than Germany, Poland, or the UK. Not per capita, just straight up more people. If you only include active personnel it’s still comparable per capita to most European countries
Only out of necessity, Russia has shown that they are done playing the diplomatic game (though they have been playing it quite badly), the US has fully shat it’s pants and is rolling around in it and China has the carving knife ready for when Russia colapses, if Europe is to survive we need to federalize.
At an absolute minimum, we need to build a unified military under one leadership throughout the EU, military personal from the south must be expected to defend Europe in the north, and vice versa.
I don’t see this as being right-wing, I see it as it being a reality we need to face.
I’ll even share a detail about my general political views, out of all ideologies, I strongly believe that Social Democracy is the best, as it combined a strong government with a regulated free market.
- Socialism_Everyday ( Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com ) BannedBanned from communityEnglish4·9 months ago
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I am living in Sweden, I have done so for the last 38 year after being born.
I have witnessed the all of that.
I stand by what I said, including the part of regulated free markets which you didn’t bring up.
I absolutely disagree with how Socialdemokraterna moved away from the ideology of Social democracy.
However, this does not change my views of the ideology, only the politicians who has failed it.
Social democracy requires strong leaders who can withstand trends pulling in either direction.
- Socialism_Everyday ( Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com ) BannedBanned from communityEnglish4·9 months ago
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No, I have not seen social democracy failing, I have seen politicians failing to uphold social democracy.
Everything else sounds right-winger when one is into authoritarian “left”.
Sorry if someone being unapologetically socialist is too much for you 😢😢
How much is your socialism gonna help anybody when a fascist state overthrows you because you don’t have a military?
Funding a defense force isn’t inherently right-wing militarism; it’s a practical necessity in the world we live in. Its primary function is as a deterrent to potential invaders, it only goes into kinetic operations when its function as a deterrent fails. All the more reason to maintain a strong military.
Peace is more likely when your adversaries know they won’t stand a chance against you.
- Socialism_Everyday ( Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com ) BannedBanned from communityEnglish4·9 months ago
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What are you on about?
you don’t have a military
The only leftist ideology that advocates against an active military is anarchism. Anarchists prefer spontaneous militias that activate as soon as another state acts on them. Obviously there are downsides to this practice as 1) gathering up a militia and organizing them can take time away from defending against outside oppressors, which can jeopardize defense in general, and 2) gathering up a militia of normal folk in a society means they won’t be actively trained in conducting warfare effectively, or at least not as much as another state that does have an active military - this also represents a lower hand which can again jeopardize defense in general.
Marxist-Leninist communists believe that an active military that trains its population and performs drills regularly is the most suitable defense against capitalist states, since they have their own military doing the same.
Tell that to the person being “unapologetically socialist” whom I responded to.
Anarchists can’t even organize a voting bloc or a civil sector, and they think a militia will spontaneously activate when needed? Oh please.
For the record, I am somewhere on the left of the spectrum. I believe both social democracy and democratic socialism have their merits. I’m definitely not an ML, for various reasons including I believe they’re too authoritarian and I find them insufferable.
But I also believe that modern social democracies such as are found in western and northern Europe have societies and ways of life that are worth defending, even if that means fighting for them. With the threat looming to the east, I find it imperative for Europe to fund a strong military coalition/alliance.
Ironic comment because almost all anti-EU people in Europe are far-right.
Really? How interesting…
It’s almost like people have forgotten history. Europe isn’t a newcomer, I just hope it won’t go to our heads, and that’s where being 27 countries together makes sense for me so hopefully only “good” things will come out of it all.
so you want them to have more dogs
Most eurolibs would happily allow European imperialism and justify it by arguing if they didn’t do it someone else would
“Look someone had to rape every single brown person and steal their stuff. So why not Europe? They swore they don’t do that anymore.”
Oh yeah and we know they totally stopped after WW2, yup no neocolonialism or backing foreign military occupations. Just look at how Europe is treating the Palestinian occupation, they sent them unlimited weapons very strongly as an act of condemnation. Look their feelings are hurt and that’s close enough to real action.
Is this “European imperialism” in the room with us right now?
No but its in northern Africa and the Middle East, I have been to Palestine personally. Those starving children don’t care that a couple of EU members have strongly worded statements when the weapons flow freely.
I don’t care what eurolibs have to say, their actions speak significantly louder
It’s in every room in Africa. But they’re not white so the media ignores it.
Of course the very statement “in the room with us right now” clearly states the intent, that’s somewhere else to people of a different skin color so clearly it doesn’t matter. The average eurolib has no sympathy to the starving and oppressed of the global south.
In the past the eurolib argued that they were “civilizing” them with Christianity, that has not changed yet the justifications have (now its “women’s rights”, “democracy”, and “human rights”)
Yep, they love to just change the meanings of those words to suit themselves.
I would love for them to have more equality and protections for minorities of all kinds, but just enforcing that from our country or any other country is using political manipulation for a vague gain. If the shoe was on the other foot, they’d scream about election interference.
Well I would also love that too but butchering women wont make them more free, bombing hospitals doesn’t increase the sanctity of human life, burning children alive with Incendiary weapons wont teach them to love the west, installing dictators wont make them more democratic, and funding brutal civil wars doesn’t make minorities safer.
Eurolibs will insist only Americans did this but the records don’t lie, the EU was a participant and Eurolibs supported it
trvke
If we have to pay the same price for being as big as China and the US, would it be worth it?
Having an elite that is beyond democratic control is not worth fighting for. We could as well join one of the big cubes.
We should try to strengthen democracy and freedom and find ways to succeed with that.
In a global capitalist order, you don’t get to strengthen your democracy without achieving a mostly independent economy first (or somewhat simultaneously.) One that produces the vast majority of the commodities your people need for their daily lives. If you don’t have that, you’d get subordinated by the large capitalist countries as they run out of value they can extract domestically or elsewhere. For example you’d get sanctioned into investing billions into their economy and buying from it at higher prices instead of investing that domestically. Then your democracy gets fucked because it doesn’t deliver the life improvements its subjects vote for.
This is why you need the union, as not a single European country is sufficiently self-sufficient. The union isn’t sufficiently self-sufficient either but it can get there faster and easier than individual countries. And it doesn’t have to develop an unaccountable elite. Mind you it already has one. The opposite, it has to … eat it … in order to make the job easier by stopping the siphoning and misallocation of resources needed for development.
Well said.
in the states our history lessons are inadequate at best, false at worst, especially re: europe
has there ever been a point in history when all of europe was united? because now is a good time to keep that being the case
Nice picture. Thank you, Sunshine.
To further drive the point home, it could have the US and China kicking around and crushing the little countries in the top half.The EU is still an oppressive imperialist power stop glamorizing it.
Yeah, you guys don’t like big red imperialism or red white and blue imperialism. You just rather be complicit in both
Why are the cubes similar in size, that is very misleading.
Where is France?
It’s there.
That’s disappointing
Next to Poland
It took me some time. Thank you.
UK resident here. So very many of is voted for Brexit. If we don’t succumb to Garages bullshit (as a nation), please accept us back into Europe. Cameron, Johnson and all their cronies are finally getting called out by many of those who voted to leave.
My opinion on this is, that we should take the UK back. This being said, I think the UK should not be allowed to get any opt-outs from EU legislation as they had before (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_opt-outs_from_EU_legislation). If they want to become a member of the EU again, they should go full in.
I think that’s fair. We cannot be a cat. Either go in or stay out. No sitting in the doorway demanding (ego) stroking.
