Well, you kinda need military power, even if you don’t use it, you can’t expect countries to not attack you and just be diplomatic.
Also, don’t accuse people of being [insert here ideology], it’s just childish and not better than attacking them
It’s not a “strawman.” I understand that most people on here don’t want the weapons going to Israel, which is why I made the point. But the reality is that, once a weapon is built, it’s in the hands of politicians to give to whoever they like. If those politicians are pro-Israel, then even if you want the weapons for the purpose of defense, there’s a significant likelihood they’ll be used to perform genocide.
It absolutely is a strawman, no one mentioned Israel in the discussion before you, it is also not a reason to stop increasing defense spending right now that we need to defend against Russia.
First of all, no. The whole idea of globalization is that if you have economic entanglement the wars will not be profitable.
Also there are other ways of keeping military strength without having very big military see Switzerland and all guerrilla groups successfully repelling much bigger opponents like the US.
Also, don’t accuse people of being [insert here ideology], it’s just childish and not better than attacking them
I mostly agree, but the meme created does represent this ideology and you can attack problematic ideologies.
Also there are other ways of keeping military strength without having very big military
You’re right! Europe can just defend itself with thougts and prayers. Why didn’t all the bureaucrats from Brussels think about this? Omg, you’re a genius!
military strength without having very big military see Switzerland
Switzerland has mandatory military service. If you include reserves, it has a bigger military than Germany, Poland, or the UK. Not per capita, just straight up more people. If you only include active personnel it’s still comparable per capita to most European countries
Only out of necessity, Russia has shown that they are done playing the diplomatic game (though they have been playing it quite badly), the US has fully shat it’s pants and is rolling around in it and China has the carving knife ready for when Russia colapses, if Europe is to survive we need to federalize.
At an absolute minimum, we need to build a unified military under one leadership throughout the EU, military personal from the south must be expected to defend Europe in the north, and vice versa.
I don’t see this as being right-wing, I see it as it being a reality we need to face.
I’ll even share a detail about my general political views, out of all ideologies, I strongly believe that Social Democracy is the best, as it combined a strong government with a regulated free market.
How much is your socialism gonna help anybody when a fascist state overthrows you because you don’t have a military?
Funding a defense force isn’t inherently right-wing militarism; it’s a practical necessity in the world we live in. Its primary function is as a deterrent to potential invaders, it only goes into kinetic operations when its function as a deterrent fails. All the more reason to maintain a strong military.
Peace is more likely when your adversaries know they won’t stand a chance against you.
If you’re trying to draw a comparison between modern Europe (or even modern Germany) and Nazi Germany, don’t. You’re only revealing your ignorance. Or you know it’s inaccurate and you’re doing it anyway in bad faith.
Unless you would have every European nation surrender to russian imperialism, which you seem to be trying to excuse in your previous comment. If that’s the case, then go away.
Putin is a fascist. The Soviet Union died over 30 years ago. Supporting modern russia doesn’t make you edgy or a leftist, it makes you either an idiot or a troll.
The only leftist ideology that advocates against an active military is anarchism. Anarchists prefer spontaneous militias that activate as soon as another state acts on them. Obviously there are downsides to this practice as 1) gathering up a militia and organizing them can take time away from defending against outside oppressors, which can jeopardize defense in general, and 2) gathering up a militia of normal folk in a society means they won’t be actively trained in conducting warfare effectively, or at least not as much as another state that does have an active military - this also represents a lower hand which can again jeopardize defense in general.
Marxist-Leninist communists believe that an active military that trains its population and performs drills regularly is the most suitable defense against capitalist states, since they have their own military doing the same.
Tell that to the person being “unapologetically socialist” whom I responded to.
Anarchists can’t even organize a voting bloc or a civil sector, and they think a militia will spontaneously activate when needed? Oh please.
For the record, I am somewhere on the left of the spectrum. I believe both social democracy and democratic socialism have their merits. I’m definitely not an ML, for various reasons including I believe they’re too authoritarian and I find them insufferable.
But I also believe that modern social democracies such as are found in western and northern Europe have societies and ways of life that are worth defending, even if that means fighting for them. With the threat looming to the east, I find it imperative for Europe to fund a strong military coalition/alliance.
It’s almost like people have forgotten history. Europe isn’t a newcomer, I just hope it won’t go to our heads, and that’s where being 27 countries together makes sense for me so hopefully only “good” things will come out of it all.
Nope, the EU population is larger than the US, where we are lacking is in our military power.
And are ramping up, faster than I would have believed possible 5 years ago.
OK so you are a evronationalist militarist, nice to know there are so many right-wingers on Lemmy now… ( ,⩌‘︿’⩌,)
Well, you kinda need military power, even if you don’t use it, you can’t expect countries to not attack you and just be diplomatic. Also, don’t accuse people of being [insert here ideology], it’s just childish and not better than attacking them
How many of those weapons are going to end up in Israel’s hands?
Weird strawman…
It’s not a “strawman.” I understand that most people on here don’t want the weapons going to Israel, which is why I made the point. But the reality is that, once a weapon is built, it’s in the hands of politicians to give to whoever they like. If those politicians are pro-Israel, then even if you want the weapons for the purpose of defense, there’s a significant likelihood they’ll be used to perform genocide.
It absolutely is a strawman, no one mentioned Israel in the discussion before you, it is also not a reason to stop increasing defense spending right now that we need to defend against Russia.
The fact that nobody mentioned Israel is the point. I stg. It isn’t a “strawman” to point out possible unintended consequences of supporting a policy.
“I think I should jump off a tall building.”
“Are you crazy? You’ll die!”
“Wow, what a strawman. Nobody even said anything about dying. I don’t support falling to my death, only the jumping.”
Congratulations, that is one of the stupidest arguments I have read.
First of all, no. The whole idea of globalization is that if you have economic entanglement the wars will not be profitable.
Also there are other ways of keeping military strength without having very big military see Switzerland and all guerrilla groups successfully repelling much bigger opponents like the US.
I mostly agree, but the meme created does represent this ideology and you can attack problematic ideologies.
@JustJack23@slrpnk.net wrote:
You’re right! Europe can just defend itself with thougts and prayers. Why didn’t all the bureaucrats from Brussels think about this? Omg, you’re a genius!
Switzerland has mandatory military service. If you include reserves, it has a bigger military than Germany, Poland, or the UK. Not per capita, just straight up more people. If you only include active personnel it’s still comparable per capita to most European countries
Only out of necessity, Russia has shown that they are done playing the diplomatic game (though they have been playing it quite badly), the US has fully shat it’s pants and is rolling around in it and China has the carving knife ready for when Russia colapses, if Europe is to survive we need to federalize.
At an absolute minimum, we need to build a unified military under one leadership throughout the EU, military personal from the south must be expected to defend Europe in the north, and vice versa.
I don’t see this as being right-wing, I see it as it being a reality we need to face.
I’ll even share a detail about my general political views, out of all ideologies, I strongly believe that Social Democracy is the best, as it combined a strong government with a regulated free market.
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I am living in Sweden, I have done so for the last 38 year after being born.
I have witnessed the all of that.
I stand by what I said, including the part of regulated free markets which you didn’t bring up.
I absolutely disagree with how Socialdemokraterna moved away from the ideology of Social democracy.
However, this does not change my views of the ideology, only the politicians who has failed it.
Social democracy requires strong leaders who can withstand trends pulling in either direction.
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No, I have not seen social democracy failing, I have seen politicians failing to uphold social democracy.
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Everything else sounds right-winger when one is into authoritarian “left”.
Sorry if someone being unapologetically socialist is too much for you 😢😢
How much is your socialism gonna help anybody when a fascist state overthrows you because you don’t have a military?
Funding a defense force isn’t inherently right-wing militarism; it’s a practical necessity in the world we live in. Its primary function is as a deterrent to potential invaders, it only goes into kinetic operations when its function as a deterrent fails. All the more reason to maintain a strong military.
Peace is more likely when your adversaries know they won’t stand a chance against you.
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What are you on about?
“We need to throw cash bricks at rheinmetall. Yes, I’m a leftist”
If you’re trying to draw a comparison between modern Europe (or even modern Germany) and Nazi Germany, don’t. You’re only revealing your ignorance. Or you know it’s inaccurate and you’re doing it anyway in bad faith.
Unless you would have every European nation surrender to russian imperialism, which you seem to be trying to excuse in your previous comment. If that’s the case, then go away.
Putin is a fascist. The Soviet Union died over 30 years ago. Supporting modern russia doesn’t make you edgy or a leftist, it makes you either an idiot or a troll.
The only leftist ideology that advocates against an active military is anarchism. Anarchists prefer spontaneous militias that activate as soon as another state acts on them. Obviously there are downsides to this practice as 1) gathering up a militia and organizing them can take time away from defending against outside oppressors, which can jeopardize defense in general, and 2) gathering up a militia of normal folk in a society means they won’t be actively trained in conducting warfare effectively, or at least not as much as another state that does have an active military - this also represents a lower hand which can again jeopardize defense in general.
Marxist-Leninist communists believe that an active military that trains its population and performs drills regularly is the most suitable defense against capitalist states, since they have their own military doing the same.
Tell that to the person being “unapologetically socialist” whom I responded to.
Anarchists can’t even organize a voting bloc or a civil sector, and they think a militia will spontaneously activate when needed? Oh please.
For the record, I am somewhere on the left of the spectrum. I believe both social democracy and democratic socialism have their merits. I’m definitely not an ML, for various reasons including I believe they’re too authoritarian and I find them insufferable.
But I also believe that modern social democracies such as are found in western and northern Europe have societies and ways of life that are worth defending, even if that means fighting for them. With the threat looming to the east, I find it imperative for Europe to fund a strong military coalition/alliance.
Ironic comment because almost all anti-EU people in Europe are far-right.
Really? How interesting…
It’s almost like people have forgotten history. Europe isn’t a newcomer, I just hope it won’t go to our heads, and that’s where being 27 countries together makes sense for me so hopefully only “good” things will come out of it all.