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This is not an accurate understanding of the problem. The entirety of generation capacity for almost all of electrification (except for the last few years and for a very small number of power plants) has been built to handle peak load. Peak load only exists for something like 50 hours out of the entire year. The lights in Time Square represent base load, as they are always on. Turning off the lights in Time Square would do absolutely nothing to manage peak loads as compressors are far and away more energy intensive than lighting is.
The evidence we should be looking for is whether they require turning off AC in commercial buildings during peak load. Instead what we find is that ConEd is literally paying commercial real estate operators to reduce energy consumption during peak while asking residents to do it voluntarily without offering them compensation.
That’s how you know the game is rigged. Not through base load lighting, but by literally paying commercial land lords to do something that residents are asked to do for free.
The lights in Time Square represent base load, as they are always on.
I don’t see how that means turning them off at peak load wouldn’t lower peak load. It would also send a message that society is taking the issue seriously.
If you look at the difference between base load and peak load, it would be obvious that the lights are inconsequential to peak load.
Peak load consists of base load plus variable components. Turning off some of the base load reduces peak load.
Yes, 100% true and also 100% irrelevant. The delta in NYC between base load and peak load is almost 5GW. And the base load itself is about 5GW. Given that peak loads happens only for 0.1% of the year, you can easily see that the problem has almost nothing to do with base load and everything to do with the rapid scaling up of peak load. This is why AC compressors are the culprit. They are fully automated, distributed, and they all kick on under shared environmental triggers. The starting up of ACs during a heatwave is literally almost equivalent to 100% of NYC base load.
Shutting off a few 10s of MW for lighting cannot solve the problem.
So is my air conditioner. It’s not like me turning the dial up a few degrees is going to keep the world spinning properly. /s
It’s not just Times Square just like it’s not just my AC. Times Square is a visual representation of how seriously the city and it’s residents take the issue. If those lights are blaring, then I assume a whole lot of other corporate power consumption is likewise excepted.
That’s just vibes though. Your AC is a node in a distributed cooling system that all respond to the same ambient environmental signals which means they act in a distributed coordinated manner. There are government systems for power reduction of commercial spaces - certifications, tax incentives, negawatt incentives, etc. The distributed system of ACs is almost impossible to manage because it’s functionally anarchic. And the combination of your AC and all 8m of your neighbors’ ACs turns out to be an order of magnitude more draw than all of the lighting in the entire city.
Trump is President because of “vibes”. Vibes matter because they influence behavior. Just look at the stock market. There will be more compressors working harder because of the vibes put out by those lights. Guaranteed.
Society is constructed on vibes. NYC is 8 million people vibing together.
For sure that’s a better analysis of the whole thing. Although, I do think it is worth noting how much energy is devoted to stuff like advertising, which is ultimately not productive use of energy. And if that wasn’t done in the first place, there would be more energy to go around avoiding the problem of not having enough of it at peak ours.
how much energy is devoted to stuff like advertising
And stores and businesses leaving the lights on inside, even at night when the place is closed and nobody is there. And lighting up their entire giant parking lot all night as well, all night every night, even though they’re only open during hours of darkness for a few hours each day.
I know it’s not that much energy in the grand scheme of things, especially now that everything is LED. But still, their complete disregard for energy savings – such that they can’t be bothered to install a simple timer circuit – irritates me.
(I suspect that they’re also leaving the HVAC running at full capacity overnight as well. That might be a more significant waste of energy.)
Exactly, and that’s just one example of massive waste. Another one is the fact that around half the food produced is just thrown away because it’s just more ‘efficient’ to do that. Capitalism is an absolutely insane system.
HVAC is not left on over the weekends in most office buildings in NYC. There are incentives and certifications and standards that drive that.
Those lights are for safety and to deter break-ins.
Supposedly, sure. I don’t think they really make much of a difference, though.
The lights in Time Square represent base load, as they are always on
That’s not what base load means. Base loads are loads that you cannot turn off without putting the safety and well being of people in jeopardy. The hospital is a base load. Telecommunications is a base load. Traffic lights are base loads. The subway is a base load. Water and sweage pumps are base loads. Lights in a dark tunnel or underground space are base loads. Turning off any of these will have a significant detrimental effect to the population. Billboards and decorative lights are not base loads, keeping them on is a choice, not a necessity. What detrimental effect does turning them off have?
Sure. It’s intermediate load. You’re correct. It doesn’t change the argument. But I appreciate the adherence to the correct use of technical terminology
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If the wealthiest intersection on the planet cant even pay lip service to an issue like that, how is anyone going to take the issue seriously? “You must reduce your comfort for the greater good, but the advertisements stay on” is callous and puts one of the least important things above the needs of the many. Its like saying emergency vehicles only on the roads in a snow storm, but then you see an ice cream truck driving around. Clearly, the priorities are not straight.
The priorities are off because of capitalism, not because lit signage remains lit.
It is absolutely nothing like seeing an ice cream truck on a road that’s been limited to emergency vehicles.
Spending time and effort and political capital and writing the laws and regulations and doing the enforcement simply because you think the optics matter that much is just not a good use of time. If the city wants to address power usage, lit signage is incredibly low on the priority list. Meaning if the priorities were in order, lit signage would stay on and the ACs would be managed by cycling them on and off using a planned controller. Because the reality is that turning the signs off would only allow for a very very little bit of additional uncoordinated cooling systems, but managing cooling systems would allow for literally billions in savings on infrastructure investments into the power grid.
So, in fact, the signs remaining on while ConEd chases after AC management is evidence of priorities being in place correctly
I’ve been playing 5ish minute songs whenever I shower recently so I don’t take too long and waste water just because I want to be personally more responsible but man, it’s really hard to feel it’s worth caring sometimes when there’s so much water being gleefully dumped into AI and various other large scale wasteful practices
It’s not even just AI. I used to work at a place that cleaned rugs, the amount of water we were using each day was mind blowing. 8 hours a day 5 days a week of thousands of gallons.
Not only that, but it also smells strongly of subsidizing corporations through lowering their electricity bill.
“lit up”? Does this person… Do they… Do they think public space mother fucking light sources are the big bro hyper capitalist megacorps lobbying demonic entity? It’s a bit illiterate, but well at least their spirit is in the right place
They clearly mean the giant digital billboards not the actual lights
Oh those I didn’t understand that because I thought it was just a town square or whatever
Ah yes, the led lights that prevent rampant rape is the problem, not the perverse megacorps consuming the earth
