I have been testing Tor Browser and Mullvad Browser using fingerprint.com. I get unique persistent identifiers that are unique per machine and persist over rebooting sessions. Javascript was on during this test.
This could be very dangerous to people using Tor Browser and Mullvad Browser.
For example, if someone visits Rainbow Railroad, an organization for leaving repressive countries with hostile LGBT policies, and then watches a video about the organization on YouTube, and then also does something, like create a Discord Server, and use Tor Browser to get around geoblocking but link it to their personal phone number, then a hostile regime buying data from data brokers could possible determine that user is considering using rainbow railroad. Even if this exact example isn’t realistic or plausible (although governments do buy form data brokers), users should be aware that persistent identifiers in Tor Browser and Mullvad Browser allow for continuous tracking of a user using the same machine.
I posted this information on privacyguides forum and they deleted my account after, leading me to wonder if the forum is a giant honeypot that curates acceptable privacy discussions and unacceptable private discussions. I honestly wonder if they are infiltrated by the government. They repeatedly delete the posts of other people as well and the whole thing is starting to not sit well with me.
“Javascript was on during this test.”
I understand: Javascript is not safe. I know that. But most of the internet, except for onions, use javascript and it’s nearly impossible to use most of the Internet in web browsers without it. The problem is that if Fingerprint.com can reliable detect differences between users when javascript is on for Mullvad Browser and Tor Browser in certain operating systems, users should be aware. Most people would think Mullvad Browser in “safer” mode would not create a persistent per-computer hash of the browser that can be tracked across sessions.
Wonder why privacyguides deleted the post
Whenever someone says they had a moderator action taken against them, I am suspicious. Some mod teams are notorious, sure, but it’s almost always a case of unreliable narration.
I imagine behavior like the allcaps reply above had something to do with it.
Other users on privacyguides forums have commented on the exact same problem where threads are just completely deleted, even with valid questions.
Most likely 3 letter agencies are raising flags to get it deleted, and mods seeing the reports just ban without thinking.
I sadly think this is what’s happening and even wonder if some forum mods or people there are intelligence. Because why else would this shit keep happening? Privacyguides also has a sketchy origin story if you look far back enough. The really fucked up thing is they are the most well respected guide to privacy and constantly push 3 VPNs, including ProtonVPN after it was blatantly leaking, and it just really makes me wonder… why do they push those 3 VPNs so hard? In theory, they are good VPNs… but what if they are good and also being pushed for a reason? Almost every good independent VPN gets bought out. Half of the VPNs seem to be owned by Kape, AzireVPN got bought out by a US Company. It seems like fewer and fewer VPNs exist that don’t have either intelligence connections or links to privacyguides forum. I just don’t like it. I don’t trust privacyguides anymore.
You need to change the safety setting to “safest”.
This is why some onion sites constantly popup warnings in JS and annoy you until you make the change.
Safest is fine for .onions. For most of the Internet, this won’t work. And Mullvad Browser, which is often not used with .onions, copies the main architecture of Tor Browser minus the routing.
I can actually replicated that. Tor Browser without extensions (only the default https anywhere and noscript) on Mac OS. Pretty scary? Wondering how this works.
Aha! I figured it out. Apparently my Tor browser got old extensions in there from older Tor versions (Tor Button and something i can’t remember, they were set to deprecated and were disabled). I had Tor literally installed for… over 10 years or something, so I would imagine it didn’t reset itself properly after doing one update or another. After removing the Tor Browser data folder and reinstalling it (for good measure, don’t think that was necessary), I get random values on the page.
EDIT: One additional thought on that… I feel this is something Tor Browser should consider automatically when applying updates. At least a warning would be good to reset your data once in a while to stay non-unique.
Yes, it’s by design. You should probably read this https://mullvad.net/en/browser/mullvad-browser
They have different unique hashes per computer, so Tor Browser user on “Computer 1” has a unique hash and Tor Browser user on Computer 2 has a unique hash. I have read Mullvad’s documentation on their browser. Please re-read the original post.
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They have different fingerprints PER COMPUTER without any plugins other than default of No Script. I tested this, it is not the same hash for every computer. It varies per computer and was persistent across sessions.
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This could entirely be me being tired, and thus a little stupid right now, but how exactly are you rebooting the system? If it’s by hitting the restart button, or powering off and back on, you may be having issues with something getting “stuck” in RAM, essentially. Try fully powering down the machine, disconnect the power cable (and battery if it’s a laptop), press and hold the power button for 30+ seconds, then hook everything back up and test again. That should be enough to drain any little bits of electricity stored in the system, thus fully clearing anything that might’ve been hanging around from RAM. Also, make sure the browsers are fully updated and no outdated extensions/plugins/etc.
Just chiming in to say I learned a lot from discussions and links in this thread. Thanks all.
Same here. Just lurking has been useful to me here. Nice to see someone in a similar spot (not an expert but passionate about the subject)
I was able to partially replicate, on safest mode with the minimum js enabled for a result to come up
Tor on mobile gets reliably identified (not a huge surprise, but annoying) regardless of extensions
Tor on desktop did not get reliably identified, even with uBlock
Tor on desktop in “safer” mode, with default noscript, and uBlock enabled, was not reliably identified
Edit: Surprisingly, even on “standard” setting, desktop was not uniquely identified
If all users have the same fingerprint then nobody is getting fingerprinted.
All users don’t have the same fingerprint. Fingerprint.com is testing other things that Tor isn’t covering. So if they are testing canvas and other stuff that Tor protects, and 2 things that aren’t protected that give unique identifiers, they still create a unique hash. I did not test this using Tails or Qubes and it may not affect all operating systems.
You also didn’t test it in safest mode. Do it again with tor browser not in insecure mode
Safest mode blocks any website with javascript and most of the Internet runs on javascript. They also don’t warn users that anything other than safest mode now is entirely identifiable based on fingerprinting.
It does not blcok the website. It just doesn’t render its JavaScript.
Any worthwhile website uses JavaScript just for fancy stuff and content will render fine without it.
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It has no clue who you are using tor. Just switch the circuit your on.
may i ask which os you’re in? linux?
i hate windows, but it seemed like tor’s fingerprint randomization works best on commonly used oses. never worked properly on my freebsd or slackware… i use a win10 vm for tor because of this. (only allow tor to communicate, via proxy and block windows from talking to microsoft)
This has been my concern switching over to other OS’. I’m hoping as these alternative choices become more popular this won’t be the case as much but I do still have a Windows laptop I rarely use. Only use it for special use cases.
Privacy Guides is definitely over moderated. They might be infiltrated.
It feels like it to me. It seems more than just aggressive or vigilant modding.
Isn’t Mullvad browser kind of deprecated? Vivaldi is quite good, despite its closed-source UI components.
