I wish to have a discussion about how physical surveillance affects you in your day-to-day life; apart from Flock and (Ring) doorbell cameras (which I believe are pretty established at this point). This in context with your country of residence, and whether in a rural or densely populated area (as (“smart”) cities typically “progress” at a faster rate).
I live in a medium-sized village, in a low-density area of The Netherlands. I rarely travel long distances and visit cities, but despite that, I’m increasingly confronted with surveillance infrastructure. Maybe it’s because I know too much about it, and I no longer have the option to be unaware of it, but it eats at me on a daily basis.
Most notable is surveillance surrounding highways, especially: the increased density of radar sensors (which, on their own, might not reveal much about individuals; but could reveal one’s progression when paired to ALPR data, for instance), “focusflitsers” (a (mobile) array of thermal-imaging cameras: peering through a vehicle’s windshield, supposedly patrolling phone-usage during driving, but also featuring an ALPR (which also captures the driver, besides the license plate of course), and may also be used to record speed-indications (to identify “verkeershufters”: roughly translating to “traffic jerks”)), dedicated (mobile or stationary) ALPR cameras (supposedly only for detecting warranted vehicles or “hits”: unless published in the police’s “cameraplan”), “trajectcontroles” (average speed monitoring: essentially two sets of ALPRs, calculating the average time between readings), and (now) digital speed cameras (typically at intersections: instead of adapting road design…). But I’m glad I trust my government to only store “hits” and those in violation… /s
Other than that, I’ve spotted ALPRs (alongside an increasing number of PTZ cameras) at gas stations and above infrastructure (like bridges), but also built within boom gates before parking areas or recycling centers (behind a little square of darkened glass: in the base of the gate); and in, and surrounding retail areas (especially supermarkets) the number of cameras have risen (including the cameras at the self-checkout lanes: staring customers straight in the face; supposedly to discourage theft, but considering the “pay by face” concept, I fear it’s in preparation thereof). Buses, structurally driving through my street, also have (exterior) camera side-mirrors, and therefore frequently capture me. And finally the eyesore that is public-facing home-surveillance systems (despite legally not allowed to, but of course not actively being enforced: as the government would shoot itself in the foot if it did).
That was my little rant, please feel free to leave yours below in the comments; I’m somewhat desperate to hear it. I’m especially interested in stories from Denmark: as even my mom (despite of the “I’ve got nothing to hide” type) noticed “average speed monitoring” cameras all throughout the country, and “speed cameras” being at the entrance of villages (which I believe you aren’t allowed to be notified about in navigation programs: which is also insane to me), when she was there on a holiday. Please be very critical of every camera you’re confronted with, including those that appear to have been there for your entire life. It’s safe to assume every camera (including old “analog” cameras: through encoders) feed back into modern, digital surveillance platforms: which allow the footage to be actively monitored by AI (often to potentially trigger an alert, which an operator could respond to), possibly retained for an extended period of time (especially when considered evidence, it may be stored long-term: on a centralized server and/or cloud storage), and is shared effortlessly over the internet (instead of requiring physical transfer).
I’m a politically active anarchist (Boston US). The extent of my political activities is giving food to people, but the cameras have completely changed my threat model.
Under current directives, the FBI considers me a domestic terrorist and violent extremist because I am trans and against fascism (not because of my actions – I am not violent). Legally they can’t just randomly arrest me because of our right to free speech, but they can arrest me for something entirely unrelated and punish me disproportionally, so the cameras have changed the way I act in the city and online. I am now much more cautious about everything; I worry about simply putting a “scam” sticker over somebody else’s sticker promoting a scam. I am constantly aware of law enforcement around me. I scan my surroundings regularly to make an updated escape plan. I notice every person walking down the street I’m on. I carry a knife and pepper spray. I regularly ask myself what would happen if a cop pulled me over / stopped me at this moment, and am well aware of the varying rights and legal obligations in those situations.
It’s not possible to avoid the cameras when driving, so I can’t just change my route. I have to simply accept the fact that they know my routine and location and they know what I do day-to-day. I am very careful about what I say both online and in person so as to not appear like I might ever do anything beyond giving food to people and broadly complaining.
And the worst part is that I’m just a 19 year old who has big ideas but won’t do any harm. I just so happen to be several minorities, so the stakes are much higher
You may be fined €140 if they catch you placing a sticker outside of designated areas over here, and modern cameras are great at detecting objects being left behind (your sticker being left on scene after you leave); so yes, that seems like a reasonable concern (especially alongside political tensions). And considering you’re from the US, I assume traffic cameras are Flock ALPRs? But yeah, being privacy conscious is increasingly at the cost of being able to express, or even simply to be; and it’s sad it’s something to worry about.
All sorts of new tower cameras popping up rapidly in my area. They look errily similar to a phone tower but much smaller. Single turret style rotational camera on top of a black tower.
Interesting, in what country is this? And is it in specific areas (like retail for example), or implemented more broadly?
I will take a photo for people to see. I think we need to know how to scrub exif data and do the best we can.
In retail locations yes, along highways, even bridges. I will take the photo and repost. So we can identify. United States.
That’d be great, I’m quite interested. :)
The car thing bothers me. I have purposely chose an old non smart car, but given I have a license plate i am still monitored. I am seeing a lot just randomly on roadsides and I live kinda regional.
As for out in public, I have been considering a really light mouth mask, glasses and a hat. I thought I was crazy…I really thought i was turning into an irrational paranoid person.
Can’t shop online as I cant stand online shopping and algorithms anymore, plus i prefer to shop local.
Its like a trap.
Same, despite all the (financial) incentives to get me to drive electric (including self-induced gasoline price-hiking). Do you mind expanding on what it is you’re seeing at roadsides, and in what country this takes place?
As for out in public, I have been considering a really light mouth mask, glasses and a hat. I thought I was crazy…I really thought i was turning into an irrational paranoid person.
I’ve also been there, and honestly there might be something to it, but I feel like automated systems might ironically keep a closer eye, on those wearing: a mouth mask (thanks to training-data from the COVID pandemic), glasses, and a hat. And I have no answer to it when pay-by-face (which self-checkout registers here could already do technically) becomes widely adopted. For now I completely avoid said registers (despite the manned ones also having a camera nearby, but at least not ~50cm from my face); but entries to (public) transit terminals also increasingly have cameras at facial height (which might also be in preparation of pay-by-face). So in the not so distant future, your face may be captured with every transaction (whether you use the system or not: as the camera remains in place).
It seems like concepts from e-commerce are ported to the physical world: primarily the customer tracking and digital payments. And perhaps the entire web has been a simulation, in preparation for the digitization of the physical world. It’s quite difficult to make a payment anonymously online: customer details may be shared across web shops (to check for irregularities: potentially raising a red flag, prompting the customer to supply more details), and orders are increasingly fulfilled by centralized fulfillment centers (which take the details from “independent” shops, and know exactly what goes in your box, because they store and package the products). So perhaps we should “enjoy” physical shopping while we can, because online shopping seems to be the basis for future physical shopping (that is if shops don’t go delivery or pick-up only: similar to during the COVID pandemic; which goes for some IKEAs are around here).
Make sure to cover the T of the bridge of your nose and the eyebrow ridge, and your ears
I had to stop paying attention to physical surveillance because at one point I was unable to normally function without constant anxiety. The cameras are terrifying and so are cashless-only payments for public transport, parking, highways.
I like how the British have a tradition of destroying cameras in public spaces, but I’m too much of a coward to do the same where I live.
I wish I could, but I don’t think I’m able to now. I’ve already been through a time of pessimism, but have realized this might be exactly what they’re after: unawareness (which is the overarching majority) or ignorance (despite being aware); while exactly now is the time to act. The Dutch government typically bases related legislation on meaningless, exacerbated statistics from pseudo-studies: financed by parties having a clear conflict of interest (an insurance company’s study, on people’s use of smartphones in cars, being a prime example). I believe there need to be more, localized communities, which take care to expose such government inconsistencies: as to rob them of their excuses. Destruction of “tax payer property” will only worsen things: additional cameras might be propped up to identify the suspects, and the government is able to associate privacy-advocacy with vandalism.
I think there’s place for polite lobbying and there’s place for direct action. Just as a statistic of people using smartphones when driving can be a an indicator of increase of reckless driving or whatever, the number of destroyed cameras can be an indicator of societal dissatisfaction and pressure. It’s just a matter of how the data is presented and by whom.
BTW, I was under some financial pressure a few years ago and stopped donations to a NGO that opposes invigilation, your post served as a reminder to start it again.
I agree, but given how data is typically framed around here, it could swing either way. There’s just so many citizens that genuinely believe traffic enforcement cameras are for safety, while part of Dutch government spending directly depends on this source of income. There’s plenty of documents quite literally stating to increase probability of being caught, together with increasing fines: aiming to compensate for shortages… But I’m glad my post reminded you to start supporting the NGO once more, hats off ;)
I know you wrote “apart from Ring” but I literally can’t smoke a J anywhere in my yard (front, back, or sides) without being in view of at least one of them from various neighbors. It’s oppressing. Not that they ever complained; it just makes it harder to relax. Literally I move a little and see red dots popping up.
i started going to the park because of this.
Then I’d been stressing out about cops instead, because it’s legal here but not in public.
same here, so i don’t stay in any one place long enough for the police to be called in to get me.
i start lighting up as i near the park and i take the last puffs as i’m walking away.
Our neighbors had a Ring doorbell at one point, but the thing was always speaking with a voice, which constantly tried prompting the user to perform some action, so I’m quite positive it has never functioned properly. But if it did, I’d probably ask them politely to pan it differently (they have those wedges you can mount between it and the wall: changing the angle); but thankfully my neighbors have already changed it back to a regular one.
I’m somewhere in the U.S. Our local politicians suck. I want to relocate. I supported someone last election cycle who was opposed to flock cameras, but they’ve completely fallen in lockstep with the established authoritarians since taking office. So I have been trying to avoid flock cameras on my route to work. But every time I find a minor detour, a new camera pops up. And even then, many of those detours are through residential neighborhoods, where every third person
is a collaboratorhas a ring camera. My current route has me circling around the entire town before slipping back in on the other side. My commute has gone from ~20 minutes to ~40 minutes each way, which is just barely within my tolerance before I throw in the towel. There are several businesses I won’t even go to anymore, either because every possible route is surveilled, or because the business owners actively work against my interests (e.g. Whole Foods), which is actually good, since I find myself rabidly supporting local businesses, just as I should have been doing all along.A lot of ALPRs are well hidden here, and not uniformly recognizable (other than: being a fixed box-type camera, angled to capture the license plate (mostly the front: as to be able to capture the driver as well), and typically having an array of IR LEDs in or around the camera-body: lighting up the license plate). But as of recently, the national police has installed a mobile ALPR unit on my return-trip, and I’ve found myself in somewhat a similar situation to yours. Thankfully, they aren’t typically placed within residential areas (at least not outside of cities, which often do have pedestrianized areas or environmental zones, only permitted vehicles are allowed to enter); but I’m sure they’ll find a creative excuse for it in the near future.
I’ve tried taking a detour once, but noticed cameras above a bridge, that tick most of the boxes for being an ALPR, so it seemed to have proved fruitless (despite requiring me to pass through pedestrianized areas: slowing me down significantly). Cameras appear to be placed with care, seemingly using waterways as perimeters: forcing vehicles to drive over a bridge, underneath an aqueduct, or through a tunnel. Besides the initially mentioned ALPRs at gas stations (as you’re forced to fuel up periodically), and parking areas or other endpoints (as you’re forced to park your vehicle somewhere). It’s honestly quite clever, especially when you can potentially narrow down activity using consumer-grade or business surveillance systems.
A lot of ALPRs are well hidden here
I suppose it defeats the purpose but this in itself should be illegal. If these cameras exist they should be required to be clearly signposted. People should have the right to know exactly if/where/how they’re being recorded. Not just “maybe there’s a camera here, maybe we’re recording you, maybe we’re capturing and recording your face, who knows”
I agree they should at the very least do that. The Dutch police is required to publish a list of camera coordinates (for cameras storing any license plate, regardless of whether or not relevant in an investigation), but most citizens aren’t aware of its existence, it’s not easily interpretable, and there’s no physical signaling. ALPRs that supposedly only store license plates found in hotlists (“trust me bro”) don’t require any such publication; so there’s probably many other unlisted ALPRs, somehow not requiring publication. And with these mobile ALPR units (which can be relocated at any moment), it becomes even more difficult to remain aware of camera locations; which absolutely seems by design.
I live in a dense enough area that you can’t throw a stone without hitting a school. seriously if you are at a school there is likely a school of some kind within a mile. Im at the edge of the major density so it does slow down going in the one direction. Oh also red light cameras are like at every light which is most intersections.
So there are some sort of speed cameras near schools, instead of changing road design, as to reduce speed naturally? The same goes for the red light cameras though, which I like you’re mentioning; they aren’t very common where I typically go, but I’ve seen them at places. Could you tell me in what country this is in?
usual suspect. the us.
Doesn’t
