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To the non vegans willing to approach this with an open mind:
I would highly recommend you to watch this.
Ethical reasons aside, if you do care about the environment and climate change, then vegan diets have a much much lower negative environmental impact.
If you’re smart with it, then vegan diets tend to be a lot cheaper too! Most humans are lactose intolerant. Maybe you are too. If you are, then switching to vegan milks could mean less gases, farts and bloating. It’s quite comfortable to not have all that…
That being said, if you do switch to a vegan diet, you would quite likely need vitamin supplementation (at least I do).
Fun fact: People who eat meat from factory farming (virtually every meat eater) also rely on vitamin supplementation.
Only with extra steps: The cattle get the supplements. Cause they don’t graze on lush natural meadows anymore, they’re fed mostly corn.What vitamins do you need to supplement?
Btw
Vegan version of Arch: “I eat tofu btw”
I say this as a vegan who consumes a lot of the soy loaf that is tofu
Devils Advocate: Some reasons outweigh others.
The list of why you should never get on a airplane is also very long.
Most common reason and arguably the real reason for most people not wanting to be vegan:
“But meat tastes so good, and I neeeed my pRoTEiN”
Same is true for Flying:
“Sure Flying burns huge amounts of fuel, releases greenhouse gases high in the atmosphere, and contributes to the climate damage, but my holidays and travel time is more important”
You’re just making a convincing case for not flying and changing habits / traditions to suit.
And calling out some hypocrisies.
Most people are only willing to make sacrifices for animals/the-environment as long as it suites their lifestyle.
OMG I’ll never eat fish that’s murder. 😡
12h+ flight flight to go on holiday 🥺👉👈 Whoopsie
I’m not vegan or vegeterian. But I feel like that “unless you are doing both” is kinda a wrong argument to make, even almost bad faith.
Because i could say “ah so you are anti work abuse? Curious, you are using a phone made by leveraging abuse”
I think a more honest argument would be to weight the possibilities and the outcomes.
Producing meat does increase the carbon footprint, and the same can be said for flying.
The idea is, how much can beign vegan reduce this footprint, and how much removing unnecessary flights can save? So overall, how much i am saving doing one of those, instead of both?
Also, eating is an everyday activity, flying usually isn’t (in the example you reported)
I have no answers, i just didn’t like the argument
Fair enough,
The point I’m trying to make is there are many ways to live more ethically, If you’re a vegan but fly a private jet, you don’t give a fuck about the environment, you’re just pretending you do.
You could also not be a vegan and care more about the environment than a lot of vegans.
I knew a militant vegan who removed the emissions filter from his diesel car, and tuned it to ‘roll coal’ (emit tons of smoke) because he thought it was cool.
There’s a lot of nuance
Yeah we can agree on that one, of course cognitive dissonance is a thing so it’s ok to point it out. (I love animals but i eat meat, so I’m a perfect example)
The important thing is trying to remain civil, and looking for a discussion, rather than trying to dunk on one idea or the other (this in particular to vegans too)
My reason is that I tried it, after focusing my attention on researching micronutrients for weeks, making an elaborate meal plan that covers everything, and taking supplements.
After 4 weeks, I felt hungry no matter how much I ate, and then I found a tuft of my hair in the shower sink.
I then ate a blue rare steak and it felt like a rush of euphoria and relief. I was giggling while I ate.I don’t know what I was missing, but after so much research I was pretty sure I couldn’t figure it out.
So now I’m a “weekday vegan” + an occasional piece of blue cheese, meat or liver, and I’m feeling fine.
Is it 2012 again? I thought we’d grown past this dumb shit
We haven’t, there are still plenty of dumb carnists trying to frame vegans as extremists.
We don’t even think about you. The only time I hear vegan, despite eating mostly vegetarian is here with reddit/Lemmy screeching.
It tastes good and finding good vegan cheese is a struggle
I used to be a cheese addict. Very happy to be craving-free today.
It’s not easy being cheesey 😔
Yeah, ive reduced my meat intake so most days i eat no meat at all, and when I do its only one meal a day that has mest in it generally. And the meat i do eat is like 85% chicken 10% fish 5% other. Drink only oat milk. But i cannot give cheese up :(
I dont intend to go vegan anyways though. Not in our current society, with the options and prices etcetc. But i also dont actually think eating meat is inherently immoral. And esp not drinking milk or eating cheese. I do think the conditions we currently have causing them to suffer is. And the ecological ramifications are immense.
People love to pretend eating vegan is so easy. But youre absolutely going to be giving up time, effort, and money to make that diet work while also culling a lot of things you enjoy that make you happy.
Carnist here, feel free to ratio me in the comments.
The thing that I find most annoying in these intermittent “debates” where various people with different believes make starwmen and yell past one another is the shocking disconnect between people and the food that they eat at a fundamental level.
I am firmly of the belief that people need to be aware of what goes into the production of the food that they eat and look at the consequences of their actions directly.
People who eat meet but divorce that dish from the animal who made it are misguided at best to delusional at worst.
Similarly people who champion the removal of animal products but won’t look into the eyes of a combine harvester and the animal it has ran over, the displacement or slaughter of animals in the clearing of farmlands, the increase in water consumption as new areas are turned over to fast cash crop agriculture based on whatever the current trend is, the removal of byproducts from industry such as long lasting leathers of adhesive products in exchange for quick rotting fast fashion made largely of petroleum products, and the costs associated with all of that are also misguided at best to delusional at worst.
Independence and community support are the best answer. But when so many see the people they live alongside as enemies what hope do we have of cooperation.
So maybe instead of fighting one another over petty concerns we can come together and take a look at the system trying to keep people apart and reliant on its own monstrous excess
Similarly people who champion the removal of animal products but won’t look into the eyes of a combine harvester and the animal it has ran over, the displacement or slaughter of animals in the clearing of farmlands, the increase in water consumption as new areas are turned over to fast cash crop agriculture based on whatever the current trend is,
Animal products require the cultivation of more plants than vegan food. Animals need to be fed, and they burn tons of calories to stay alive.
the removal of byproducts from industry such as long lasting leathers of adhesive products in exchange for quick rotting fast fashion made largely of petroleum products, and the costs associated with all of that are also misguided at best to delusional at worst.
Without subsidies, it is cheaper to make long-lasting bioplastics from plant matter than to raise a cow and kill it for its skin. The fashion industry makes clothes that decay in order to sell more clothes, and the meat industry artificially lowers the price of leather.
So maybe instead of fighting one another over petty concerns we can come together and take a look at the system trying to keep people apart and reliant on its own monstrous excess
Agreed, you should take a look at the system and let go of your petty concerns. This will make you vegan.
“Without subsidies, it is cheaper to make long-lasting bioplastics from plant matter than to raise a cow and kill it for its skin. The fashion industry makes clothes that decay in order to sell more clothes, and the meat industry artificially lowers the price of leather.”
This post is why we can’t have nice things.
Also, is this true? This feels like one of those statements made with confidence that may also not be true. I know bioplastics still have issues with regard to synthesis that does have environmental impact and does not breakdown after synthesis. Also, corn is also heavily subsidized. It’s kind of difficult to take this comment at face value given the unnecessarily personalized debate strategy you utilized.
im not vegan however i do want that animals would not be treated in the way most industrial farms treat them
I’m just here with popcorn, don’t mind me.
Price, availability and easiest to balance. Not much more needed to choose omnivore diet. Eating is already annoying enough chore, no point to make it more difficult.
that’s a very small list. i got trouble reading it. could someone read it for me?🥺👉👈
It just says “racism”, wonder what that’s about.
?
I believe in equal rights for all living things. Plants get the axe, same as the meat-bags.
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Okay uhm lemme see…
- nutritional deficiencies, may be relevant if you’re too silly to remember to take supplements
- you’re not supporting the egg and dairy industries (think of all the small independent multimillion industrial farming complexes)
uhm
- you’re gonna be a beta (something something women are to be treated as objects but they’re also evil because they don’t like me or however the manosphere mantra goes)
yeah I think that’s all I got
For me its because I cant afford to, I’m still living with my reactionary parents and they would never buy anything vegan
