Hello people, my family recently bought a Renault 5 e-tech. The car itself is great, but there are some aspects that creep me out, especially the driver-facing camera. We didn’t actually know that such a camera existed before we bought the car, it was only mentioned as the car was given to us.
The cameras official purpose is to see, if you are tired and paying attention to the road, by some “AI magic”, I suppose. You can also let it scan your face, so that you automatically get logged into your profile.
I personally think, that that is kinda creepy, especially as there is no visual indication if the camera is currently recording and no official way to disable the camera hardware-wise. When it is being coverd, the car immediately complains about it.
When talking to friends or family about it, I got one of two reactions: equal concern, or “nice feature actually”, “what about the camera on your laptop?”, “you are way too paranoid”, “I have noting to hide; it is only me driving being recorded”.
I have also seen such cameras in other cars, BYD for example.
What do you think, is this creepy or am I too paranoid? Does anyone know where the actual data is processed, on device or on some cloud server? Do you have any experience with such cameras? I couldn’t really find any information about it on the internet.
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I always bring up the magic of Scotch’s Magic Tape.
This tape lets most of the light through (useful for dynamic light features) while blurring the image as if out of focus or behind frosted glass. It is also mostly discrete unlike opaque tapes.
The car potentially can refuse to run because can’t validate that the driver is not impaired to drive.
the locations of the cameras are no published and you’re likely to miss at least one.
For that we still have the Internet. Better nerds than I will find out for each car model where each last camera is located
yes, thankfully; but only for now and even then, they permanently have the advantage in this cat-and-mouse game.
CARINT is becoming a thing as well (car intelligence), next to the ore existing disciples if HUMINT, SIGINT etc.
And my own government is the least of my worries. Between CRINK, fallen allies, and megacorps.
The car complains when the camera is covered. At a minimum that means making annoying sounds every time you drive anywhere, at worst the car doesn’t let you drive. You can’t just dismiss this, it’s going to happen more and more, and they will be increasingly hostile to your workarounds.
Break the camera? Remove it? Scratch the lens?
In a few years, this might brick your car. Have fun paying to have it towed to the dealership. User-caused damage isn’t covered under warranty by the way.
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Why does everything have to suck so much…
Because the people making these laws aren’t handled appropriately.
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This feature is mandatory in all new cars sold in the European Union since 2024
I bought a new car from 2023, looks like I really dodged a bullet.
Its just insane how used we are now to being on camera everywhere. Even in our own cars???
What’s insane is how many libertarians drive drunk, texting, or stoned, putting a massive burden on insurance, healthcare, families, and >30,000 deaths a year.
So yeah, you might get recorded jerking off while driving.
There is no requirement to use it though. So blame the manufacturers if it’s hard to disable it.
Also in the US from 2027 onward. It’s in the 2021 infrastructure bill.
Check the privacy laws in your country. If in Europe, you can have the services disconnected. Looks like a Renault so sometimes cars manufactured in the EU will come built in with the ability to turn off the feature.
Car data privacy is the worst there is today and will get much worse with timd. Mozilla foundation put out a report recently
Thank you, I’ll look into that :)
This is being touted for safety reasons, yet there are still no guidelines and headlight brightness, headlight height, hood height of pickup trucks, etc. Regulate the vehicle exterior for actual and immediate safety benefits before trying to float this privacy infringing shit.
Car regulations are so much fun. Atere you crazy? Your car can’t be that loud, there are several reasons for it, obviously. Oh wait, you mean a rich people car? Nevermind, those can be the loudest cars imaginable, because they need 900 hp
You’re not being paranoid - that would be a hard “no” for me. I’d keep a clunker from the 70’s alive and drive that forever.
“what about the camera on your laptop”
God I hate these people. That camera has been covered by duct tape for years for very good reasons. A lot of them actually apply to a driver-facing camera in my car, coincidentally.
Btw OP, I think Renault has a contract with PalantirOh, god, have they? I’ve only read about Stellantis
Yeah I think I was mistaken. It does appear to be only stellantis so far. So Renault and alpine should be safe (and Aixam I guess if you lose your license)
We got a modern BYD recently as a rental on a holiday that had this, it was really annoying. Anytime anything happened the car beeped, it was near constant different beeps - super distracting. Most of the things could be turned off, but had to be turned off each time the car was started, on a tablet buried in various menus.
The attention thing also wasn’t working great with the driver wearing sunglasses, it’d randomly start complaining. It also complained when the driver would lean forward to get a better view around a corner or anything.
It was a very fancy car, but I’d definitely never choose a car with these features, even though some may probably be useful.
I’d also never trust one of these companies not to change the policy on what they can do with this camera in the future, at which point you’ll have little to no choice about it. Or, to find out they messed up and now anyone can watch you in your car.
I’d go back to the dealership and complain, either ask for a refund or a way to be able to cover the camera, especially if they only disclosed it as you got the car.
Cars collect data about you to sell them to insurance companies. There was a study by the mozilla foundation about this and they said that there is basicly no modern car that does not do that.
The only thing you can do to avoid them is buy an old car.
or use electrical tape on the cameras…
and if they realise that and disable the car until you remove it?
🔥
Many models can disable data sharing in options. Kia is one example.
Many models require the owner to fit a SIM card if they want OTA.
The amount of paranoid misinformation in this thread is annoying.
Y’all don’t want a nanny state? Then stop driving drunk, stoned, texting or otherwise distracted and killing over 30,000 people a year like children. We need this shit because we give morons licences to drive, and we refuse to force telcos to disable data IO on phones while driving.
“what about the camera on your laptop?”
My personal laptop does not have a camera, and my work laptop has a physical camera blocker.
It’s an EU decision. It will be coming to many more cars as it will be mandatory from July 2026 for all newly registered vehicles. Renault 5 is simply one of the first new cars to feature it.
According to the same law, it is illegal to use the system in a way that can identify the person, it may not save biometrics, and it must function in closed loop without sharing the data. It’s looking for things like head nodding or looking away from the road for more than 3.5 seconds while driving over 50 km/h. The camera is likely using infrared lighting as it should also work at night.
Anyway. According to the manual, it can be disabled by double tapping a button on the steering wheel or through the touch screen menus, though it will default to being enabled everytime you start the car as per the legal requirement.
If you cover it with tape, wear a mask or drive somebody else’s car in which you don’t have a profile saved, it will simply use the last previous profile and show an icon in the dashboard as a warning that the function isn’t working.
Thank you for the clarification!
I wish, Renault and/or the salesperson would communicate clearly about the camera. It’s way creepier when there is just a camera looking at you without having the context of it being required and which privacy requirements it has per law.
Interestingly, if I disable the function and then cover the camera, a warning still appears. I don’t know if that’s due to a weird implementation by Renault or a thing implied by the law
I think it’s an update from January. The first produced R5s doesn’t seem to have the camera on the A-pillar. It’s part of the media system which is used in other models as well.
I can’t imagine that rentals or fleet cars will throw a warning every time someone new uses the car, so I want to bet that the warnings can be disabled somehow with the right access to the ECU.
Renault uses their own ECU computers, which are quite expensive, but previous versions have been accessible using an OSB dongle with other software.
I’m sure someone will eventually figure out how to get into the system once these cars get old enough to reach the used market.
Unfortunately, unless you ask very specific questions about cars when buying, old or new, no salesperson will volunteer any information that could potentially jeopardize the closing of a sale.
Wait till the 2027 gets the seat rectal probe to verify you by your large intestine. Also, they sell the data to health insurance providers.
Wait I thought we were talking about bad features…
Passenger airbag sensors already measure weight and send that data.
yeah the one in my car is wierd AF. I can set it off with a dozen sheets of paper, but not a backpack. A pizza, but not a grocery bag.
This is creepy as hell. I liked the Renault 5 - until now. Fuck this shit. I wont pay a small fortune, just to enslave myself to a 1984-style digital panopticon. I am getting angry just by reading your story. Corporate greed is once again crossing the line, slowly shifting the overtone window. Everyone who is not concerned about this, is simply ignorant and/or borderline stupid.
If it was my car, I’d probably cover it. And if it then starts beeping, I’d maybe even locate the speaker and deactivate that one, too.
I wonder if it is even legal to sell you something like this without informing you prior to your purchase.
To me your comment brings to mind the underlying problem, which is: your action won’t matter because of the overwhelming behavior of the herd. The masses can’t comprehend/don’t care and profitability is absolutely not tied to consumer satisfaction anymore.
The only winning move is not to play. Buy older models before this idiocy started. My vehicle is 2011 my SO’s is 2007.
This is all just to increase the profit margins for insurance.
I liked the Renault 5 - until now. Fuck this shit
Same.
I was so pumped when I first heard about this electric model, but now that’s ruined.What an amazing way to trash a decades long cult following.
This is not as much of a problem as the android apps and the internet connectivity of everything.
Calm down. If you can afford a new car, you can afford a roll of electrical tape.
JFC lemmings love their drama. If only you showed this much passion at elections.
You have to log your profile into your car?? Fuck everything about that!
My car has profiles for seat position, mirror position, radio settings etc but it’s just Driver 1 and Driver 2 and you select with a button.
My Volvo from fucking 2001 had this with they keyfobs. Unlock with keyfob 1, positions everything for 1, unlock with 2, positions for 2.
No Orwellian crap needed, and a better experience on top, since it adjusts while you’re walking to the car and opening the door, not after sitting down.
That’s awesome assuming it’s done locally.
You don’t login, the car recognises you and adjusts settings such as the seat position to the way you like to have it without you having to do it manually, it’s a convenience thing.
Is it conveniently connected to the internet and sending data about you to anywhere beyond your control?
Depends on the car. I think Tesla’s are always connected, but other brands you have to put a SIM card in so you have a choice.
I get the concern, I wouldn’t want to be monitored constantly by a 3rd party, but in this case I think it’s just for safety (monitoring driver fatigue) and convenience.
You give car manufacturers too much credit with this ‘benefit of the doubt’.
I’m the only one that drives my car. I don’t need spyware to adjust the seat for me.
My family only has one car. We don’t have pre-recorded seat settings, but it would be handy.
There’s ways of doing per-recorded settings without putting a spy camera in your vehicle.
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There’s ways of achieving this without the privacy invasion.
