Which is your preferred messaging app? I just want some insights about these two.
You may share other messaging apps too.
Do you want it to be so complicated that no one you know in real life is able to use it for more than two weeks before they make some kind of mistake or change that deletes their entire message history and identity? Matrix
Do you want a slim chance that friends and family might use it, but you have to listen to privacy nutjobs tell you your app is a CIA NSA PsyOp and you might as well cc: potus(at)whitehouse(dot)gov all your messages, it’s run by an american non-profit obviously it can’t be trusted? Signal
Beeper which runs over Matrix (with bridges) has been pretty good and straightforward.
It’s setup like a chat app rather than a slack/discord lookalike so its easier for usual folks to get used to.
Does Beeper not break Signal encryption?
This is how I explained Matrix to my mom: its like an email address, but for chat. You can chat at me, even if we aren’t using the same server, like someone can send an email from Gmail to Hotmail. She got set up and promptly went back to texting me every dang time.
That is where signal once shined before they removed the capability of being default sms app
That’s why they removed it actually, people think being the default SMS app means you’re actually sending encrypted messages now. Nope, it just means you’re sending regular old SMS but with thr Signal app.
That’s an extreme minority though. The only people who use Signal are privacy and security conscious people and the people who those people forced to use signal. For the second group, they couldn’t care less if it’s encrypted or not, for the first group, they will make sure what’s a Signal message and what’s a regular SMS message.
This mythical user that accidentally sends an SMS message when they meant to send a Signal message doesn’t exist.
But then the only use case is if you literally take someone’s phone, switch the default SMS app to Signal, and they don’t know how to switch it back themselves. If they’re that tech illiterate, they’ll probably call you for tech support as to why text isnt working, instead of switching to Signal. And even if they then agree to do it your way, the mythical user you described is no longer mythical, it is easier to make a mistake in the Ui for someone tech illiterate. You will often see a person’s phone number in their Signal profile, after all, it’s not unthinkable.
Also, as time goes on, more people start using Signal as more people see how fascist some governments are getting and how intense social engineering is with spam calls/texts/whatnot. I know a random 60 year old bus driver who switched to Signal and made other privacy changes like turning on Safari’s relay because her accounts got hacked and she was using the same password for everything. To someone that is blind Googling something they don’t have context for, Signal is a trusted encrypted app, therefore anything I send through Signal should be trusted. I don’t think it is as impossible as you think. And again, to what benefit? There is some benefit to prevent Google possibly scanning your messages, but there are also plenty of other SMS apps which can avoid this, if it is avoidable at all.
Try Delta Chat, it’s even more like email but for chat (it runs off off Chatmail relays, it’s literally email but for chat).
But more importantly it’s easier to use, I’d have to set my mom up on Matrix but on DC I just sent her the invite link, she downloaded the app and made an acct (and may have had to click the link a second time to get to me but still), it was easy as hell! Then next time we were together I had her open her phone and I set her up with a few extra relays for redundancy. And she actually uses it now! It’s basically a whatsapp clone UI wise so I guess that helped, and at first she’d text me and I’d reply on DC until she started remembering DC exists.
My dad’s a bit better, all I had to say was “it’s encrypted” and he made an acct and hasn’t used SMS with me since lol.
XMPP is the standard messaging protocol. I recommend Conversations for android, but of course any worthwhile protocol has multiple independent frontends.
So, I host a Matrix Stack and I bridge to Signal (and Discord). It’s the best of both worlds – all my messages funnel through one application.
Seeing as you’re using Lemmy/PieFed, I’m going to guess you’ve got a handle on how federation works. I’d suggest Matrix.
With your bridging to discord, do you have dm capabilities? Able to join servers you don’t control? Because I’m nervous about the idea of getting banned for puppeting since I have multiple big servers I’m in charge of
Yes, to all points. I’ve backed out of busy or large servers primarily because I didn’t care about them. Control is granular enough to join specific channels, as well. I don’t know that anyone can even tell I’m bridged.
Signal is a centralized, US-based service which requires your phone number (thus your real identity, IE name and address), has social networking graphs of everyone you talk to, and must forward that information to the US government when asked, as well as (by law) not tell you that they’ve been asked to do so. During the Obama era, 60 NSLs were issued for this private information every single day.
People overlook its privacy concerns for the same reason they do with apple: it has a shiny interface and is easy to use, and makes people very attached to it. Behind all that, is a surveillance network that its creators have explicitly said they do not want it to be able to run in a decentralized, private manner.
It has a long history of privacy offenses below (such as refusing to publish its server’s source code for years, its reliance on other US tech services (amazon, google), US-government funding, and a US-defense-tank friendly administration) which get ignored or shouted down by many of those above. See the article below.
Pretty much any alternative is better, as long as its not hosted in a five-eyes country, and especially if it doesn’t require phone numbers or real identities like signal does.
I personally have been using SimpleX for friends and real life contacts, and Matrix for larger more anonymous group chats.
Insightful! Thanks. I agree and I’ll give SimpleX a try as others suggested.
Well since we all know the UX is important thats another strong point of deltachat Which is dead simple
xmpp + omemo. Signal is centralized, matrix leaks tons of metadata to sync between services…
I’d go with Matrix. I use it as my main messenger and I’ve actually set up my own self-hosted instance. It works perfectly for both 1:1 conversations and managing my tabletop RPG groups. Voice chat through Element Call is fantastic – honestly, it’s a solid alternative to Discord.
What I really appreciate is the control I get from self-hosting: I have complete autonomy over the server and data for both my personal messaging and community spaces. For RPG campaigns, the room structure and customizable permission system are ideal. The voice quality is reliable enough for long gaming sessions, and everything feels more private and independent compared to relying on Discord.
Matrix is just far too convoluted. Signal seems to be the easiest one to use. SimpleX is the best.
Both ! Use Matrix with tech savy friends and Signal with your family
Signal. Matrix was made by Israeli spyware company Amdocs and when an employee was asked about it after the split to a UK company they pretended like Amdocs wasn’t caught in multiple global spyware scandals already.
Matrix is literally an open standard, use a server and client written by people you trust, or write your own.
Signal is made by a private company and is completely closed source.
Signal is open source but it’s hosted centrally. So you’re trusting their server.
Matrix is a protocol it’s not hosted anywhere. But the primary developer and host instance now called Element.
But it being created and initially bankrolled by an Israeli spyware company known for creating backdoors, and the lead devs still refusing to acknowledge that doesn’t inspire me much more confidence.
If you want privacy SimpleX seems like better option than Matrix.
You can host a server which uses software not written by Element. Same for the client.
I don’t trust the Signal devs because I have no reason to. I don’t want to use anyone else’s servers unless I’m paying them or they’re paying me 😅
And I love swapping/trying new clients.
You glossed over the fact that it came from Israel’s intelligence-community. Its design is woeful–that’s the protocol, regardless of client or server implementation. The project reeks of a state-backed program to get ahead of the increasing desire for encryption in everyday communications. Yet encryption has always been an after thought within that program. All those bridges to funnel different protocols into the program.
But they say Signal is centralized, and hosted in the US.
So neither is the answer, I guess. We’re cooked.
For easy privacy the answer is Signal. If you want to put in effort then SimpleX or others seem better.
Matrix MIGHT be okay if you self host it, but I definitely wouldn’t trust the main Element hosted server. But the dev team sketches me out too hard so I’d just pick alternatives.
Signal. Requires little technical knowledge, other then knowing about end to end encryption and why its important
I would like to use matrix since if anything, I think its cool. But noone I know would be remotely interested.
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Signal is more stable & simple to set up. So for its intended use, getting people to actually talk to me on it, it’s better.
Matrix is obviously better as a Discord replacement. It doesn’t require a phone number which is also good. Not centrally managed so easier to decouple from big tech corruption. So it is better in those ways.
I agree. Signal is easier to use and to get people switch to it since the UI/UX are vey similar to other big platforms.
Isn’t Signal a CIA honeypot?
No
I prefer matrix for two main reasons:
- I can host my own server (and I do)
- It’s not centralized
As a bonus it has briddes for almost anything you can think of, so I use the signal bridge.
Both. Signal for friends and family. Matrix for fedi friends.
