Rimu recently started a new rant thread. I copied the response of the person they had targeted and in less than a minute Rimu had deleted the comment.
This is the comment Rimu did not want people being able to see: https://feddit.uk/post/53824748/26875911
This is the thread I shared it on: https://feddit.uk/post/53824747
Wait piefed has a secret shadowban list too?
Did they learn nothing from Tessaract?
I fucking knew it.
“You can’t trust those commies who make Lemmy! I know, I‘ll put in secret censorship to protect others from that I think is wrong! I’m the savior of the world!”
You can feed this pie right up your ass 🖕
The Tesseract rants did mention that Rimu should thank him for taking the heat off of him for his blocking.
Rimu:
It does have a list of instances it defeds from by default, but quokka isn’t on it.
Piefed did add the ability to ‘silence’ instances which hides posts from those instances from the All feed, but posts from communities you subscribe to still show up. It’s similar to Lemmy’s ‘hide community’ feature. Quokka is on piefed.social’s hidden instance list.
That feature was made to silence Quokk.au. Rimu added it only after he started melting down and having issues with everyone.
I’m not disputing that, he absolutely did, it’s just not really similar to the Tesseract situation.
That’s fair. Even Rimu said the Tesserect dev went too far.
Don’t Forget anarchist.nexus
Actually, tesseract learned from rimu
Apparently not, or maybe they just think they can get away with it.
They say theirs is okay because the options show when setting up the system for admins 🙄
I don’t see how people can still use piefed with someone like this in charge. A new red flag pops up every month. It’s hard to see them among all the other red flags.
good news, nobody who like Piefed has to use it. we’ve gotten PyLova to the point it’s running Quokk.au and Anarchist.Nexus, and we’ve not only removed the censorship and the bias, but we’ve also improved the UI, made some new themes, and most important of all patched some security vulnerabilities.
at this point it’s better than Piefed in every way.
Just curious, but why not use Lemmy instead?
there’s a lot of features that PyLova has that Lemmy does not.
For me in particular:
- reactions (prevents rank abuse)
- tags
- mirror integration
- multi-com interactivity
- remote instance cannot delete posts/comments by default (gaslight abuse)
<img height="auto">
Other stuff idcb:
- polls
- comment voting (stackoverflow)
one of the biggest for me is the ability to disable downvotes for people who aren’t from trusted servers. we have a lot of :slopper: downvoting anything genAI they see. restricting downvotes to exclusively FAF instances wiped out the problem.
I use the term “rank” now, because pylova/fed already implemented comment voting, as in, if you post a question, anyone can vote for answers. It’s meant to give pylova stackoverflow behaviours: best voted answer get pinned up. Ranking a comment or post doesn’t affect how folks pin comments on a question post.
If I wanted to take advantage of this would I need to post from an anarchist.nexus account, or would the community have to be on anarchist.nexus?
the community would need to be on a pylova/piefed instance, but you do not need to be on that instance.
I see, thanks for the reply.
What’s the differences between PyLova and Lemmy? Why use it over Lemmy?
PyLova has a lot more features than Lemmy does.
More features, faster updates.
Just wanna say the new themes slap, got my vaporwave fix.
This is my first hearing of PyLova, could I get a rundown? Is it a fork of piefed? Seperate project? Are there things it has that piefed doesnt, or things piefed has that PyLova doesnt currently? What’s the state of app support (I assume not there presently, which is totally fair)
The main reason I’ve preferred to continue using lemmy is the user experience. Like when you hide a post or something it doesn’t happen until you refresh. I guess because it uses htmx or something and the idea is to minimize JavaScript? Does pylova do anything different in that regard?
There’s a number of negative things about the Lemmy devs as well. This isn’t a whataboutism, or deflection. One of the lead Lemmy devs account is named for a genocidal dictator. I will give them acknowledgment and props for not perpetuating larger systems of oppression through software. Instead choosing to gleefully micro manage their own fiefdoms by hand doing it.
Point being if you’re using the threadiverse, you’re not going to find a major backend that isn’t it developed by someone with a toxic relationship to power. And ultimately a tool is still a tool regardless of Who develops it.
Your comment is whataboutism and a deflection. Saying something isn’t what it is doesn’t make it any less is.
No my comment was strictly with regards to you calling out users of a particular software. When it comes to rimu. 100% ptb unfortunately. I can’t support the authors of Lemmy or piefed. But people are free to use whichever tools they choose in this instance. But good luck constructing that straw man.
This has got to be the worst use of “straw man” I have seen on lemmy so far. And I’ve seen some bad ones.
Just a tip, you can’t call every argument you don’t like a straw man. It has a meaning.
This isn’t whataboutism. Someone asked why people still use Piefed, and for a fair number of people, that is the reason. I personally only noticed the Piefed controversies bubbling up recently. The problems with the Lemmy devs have been known for years (at least to me). And some people may see what Piefed devs do as the lesser evil, whether you agree with it or not.
It’s definitely whataboutism.
I asked why people use piefed despite the drama, Eldritch’s argument was that lemmy devs are bad, and hey, aren’t all developers kinda bad?
That’s like if I asked why some people like shit on their chest and they said “some of us don’t like getting pissed on.”
Your assessment of the Piefed’s Devs’ actions being worse than those by the Lemmy devs is a subjective one. That’s precisely the point: one could argue that what Lemmy devs do is worse than what Piefed’s devs do. And to be fair, not everyone knows about every alternative (although I will use the moment to shoutout Mbin, which, as far as I know, hasn’t had any such issues - at least not yet).
Your assessment of the Piefed’s Devs’ actions being worse than those by the Lemmy devs is a subjective one.
I never assessed such a thing.
Comparing one thing to shit and the other to piss is indirectly an assessment as to which is worse. I may be going out on a limb here but I’m pretty sure the vast majority of people (without a scat fetish) find shit worse than piss.
Whataboutism would be using the problems with the Lemmy devs to distract from or justify what the Piefed devs do. If someone says Piefed devs are doing A but Lemmy devs are doing B which I find is worse, so I would rather go with Piefed, that’s not whataboutism, that’s chosing the lesser of two evils.
What about kbin/mbin? I haven’t heard anything terrible about them at least.
As someone who persistently forgets to give kbin a try for years already, I’m wondering if the lack of notable drama is in part at fault of why people don’t know about it / don’t use it…
…Or, with any luck, it’s just me.
I really don’t ask for a HUGE amount, I think:
-
The main maintainer of the codebase isn’t a power trippin’ bastard (if they are a PTB, then I don’t trust them not to surreptitiously inject malicious code into it at some point)
-
The person who owns/runs the instance isn’t a power trippin’ bastard (if they are a PTB, then I don’t trust them not to basically function as a malicious man-in-the-middle attack at some point)
-
The instance isn’t hosted in the USA (if it is hosted in the USA, then I don’t trust the instance to be resilient against governmental overreach and spying) or any other untrustworthy countries
That’s kind of it, really. But so far, I’m struggling to get past point 1. Both Lemmy and Piefed seem to be maintained by nutjobs. I’m honestly considering going back to Reddit. Maybe kbin will be OK…
EDIT: I mean mbin. Apparently kbin is dead.
Well good news, Mbin doesn’t have a “main” maintainer, so it should clear number 1 easily. It was forked specifically because Ernest was too hands on with /kbin, so they adopted a more open by design model for Mbin’s development.
To quote their Github:
a community-focus project embracing the Collective Code Construction Contract (C4). No single maintainer.
EDIT: I mean mbin. Apparently kbin is dead.
I forget that about three times a day, don’t worry :p
-
A genocidal dictator? Do tell, which one? Hitler? Netanyahu? Bush??
Under the rule of Dessalines, Haiti became the first country in the Americas to permanently abolish slavery.
Oh so that makes it okay that they rounded up all the white polish etc minority on the island that had fought alongside them. And then exterminated them? That’s some moral relativism right there if I ever heard it.
I differentiate between the people of Haiti and their first self-proclaimed emperor. My sympathies lie with the people of Haiti. After fighting one revolution for their freedom. They had to turn and cooperate with bad faith actors like the United States. To assassinate their own ruler so they could actually have it. Only to then be fucked by France and the United States for the next Century afterwards.
the white polish etc minority
Interesting you’d mention the one white group that was completely spared due to allying with the revolutionaries.
Oh so that makes it okay that they rounded up all the white polish etc minority on the island
Famously the one group that was spared.
Only to then be fucked by France and the United States for the next Century afterwards.
The US and France had fucked over Saint Domingue long before Dessalines was overthrown. It was Dessalines who was forced to sign the treaty which indebted the entire nation as price for their freedom. It came with support from slaveholders like Jefferson who correctly, saw the Haitian Revolution as an existential threat to their way of life.
The point is to highlight the concept of Critical Support. Dessalines isn’t someone to idolize like Toussant, he was a ruthless thug. But Napoleon rejected the alliance that Toussant offered. So faced with the choice of re-enslavement under Napoleon and Rochambeau, I would’ve taken Dessalines any day.
And Hitler was a vegetarian and loved dogs.
Personal lifestyle choices are totally the same as the liberation of an entire nation of people from slavery.
This is the least intellegent response I’ve gotten in a while.
Kinda weird that you don’t mention the whole former slave who led the resistance to abolish slavery and free his country thing.
Oh that totally justifies his genocide then.
Okay, see? That’s a strawman. Now you know.
Do you even know the history of Haiti and why it is globally relevant? You CANNOT divorce that from the context of this.
Yes. And if he hadn’t slaughtered his White allies. Or been so oppressive to his own people I would probably think he was a pretty decent guy. He wasn’t. Like people in general he was a complicated and morally problematic person. How was slaughtering his white allies winning freedom for him and his people? Or do you view it as impossible to do wrong in pursuit of revolution?
I didn’t say any of those things, I am pointing out you are carrying water for european slavery empires by stripping the context.
If you cannot get over the individual to understand the context, your understanding of people and history will continue to be egregiously broken and myopic.
No explicitly not. I’ve condemned France and the United States in plenty of places elsewhere in this thread for their behavior related to this. My critique of Dessalines is not defense of them. Or their empires.
Okay so, since you didn’t quite understand it before:
do you view it as impossible to do wrong in pursuit of revolution?
That’s a strawman.
A MWoG poster supports slavery, I’m not shocked.
Some people still believe @dessalines@lemmy.ml and @nutomic@lemmy.ml are out to get them I guess. It’s ironic because every talking point about developer overreach and unilateral decisions applies to piefed more than it does Lemmy. I know it has more features and it feels like Lemmy 1.0 is taking forever, I’m still holding out hope for it and making do with what we have here.
Well we have PyLova as an option now, and it’s coming along nicely now it’s been largely stripped of Rimu’s dark patterns. It’s definitely worth considering moving your genAI comms over to AN because they would be more protected from trolls.
That’s probably a good idea. I’ll look into it.
Awesome sauce :)
Some people still believe Dessalines and Nutomic are out to get them I guess.
But then they can come to Mbin instead of Piefed! We don’t have any of these issues.
Totally agree with you. Which sucks because I really wanted to like the project. But the more stuff that comes out about it and the creator just makes me shake my head.
Same here. I even tried it, finding the whole project tainted with Rimus outspoken ideals. While, on lemmy, all the bullshit is in the open and corralled into the devs pet instance.
I appreciate how the lemmy developers keep their views and moderation decisions separate from the software. Opinions and moderation are unavoidably divisive topics. Keeping that separate from the software itself is smart. I don’t hold their views against the lemmy platform because of that separation.
I wish Rimu would see the wisdom in keeping those things separate. Its damaging to piefed, which is otherwise quite good.
I wish Rimu would see the wisdom in keeping those things separate. Its damaging to piefed, which is otherwise quite good.
Sadly it isn’t possible as they’re less making a federation software as trying to make their own vision of what social media should be.
Rimu goes by he/him pronouns please don’t misgender.
Piefed implinents pronouns in a way that doesn’t seem to be compatible with lemmy. I can only seem his pronouns on his profile when viewed through piefed.
I get where you’re coming from but they are is not me trying to do any gender.
Plus it’s hard to want to give respect to someone who gives zero respect to anyone else especially the Trans community
Edit I love my instance bur damn does it’s unstable nature make it hard sometimes
I mean, they need to be able to see the red flags for them to get them to leave.
This community doesn’t exist on piefed.social, so anything posted here isn’t visible to anyone there.
Based on some of the comments in this thread it’s people who are still ignoring red flags, projecting onto others, and still would rather insult others that aren’t those dirty fucking tankies than be willing to acknowledge any flaws with rimu or the piefed code
Rimu is not just instance-beefing, he’s so salty he’s going against the whole FOSS ethos just to be as petty as possible. PTB.
Was it Rimu who downvoted you? hehe
PTB, but it’s Rimu so what can you expect?
Man, I saw a single post from Rimu some months ago and pegged them as a scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds, censorious control freak totalitarian, months ago, blocked em.
Is this person like… actually important in some way, or do they just… loudly think that about themself?
They’re a piefed dev/contributor or something?
the main author.
Rimu initially made PieFed because he wanted more moderation tools that the lemmy devs didn’t want. It was always about censorship for him.
All the original PieFed fanboy power users and slowly realizing that they picked a fascist over the communists.
Well TIL, thank you.
… fucking hell, goddamnit.
Going off the extra mod tools/features,it’s very much rimu wants to try and make the next version of social media. One that makes reddits control over users look like child play in comparison.
Basically if you don’t act like how rimu wants the walled garden to be you get progressively filtered out
scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds
I love this saying, but I always forget to use it!
Don’t worry his Sycophants will make the excuses.
Of course he did. This is total PTB!
Which sucks because I loved what Rimu was doing in the beginning by creating piefed. Then he banned me for no reason. Ok, dick move, but ok. I still supported him and his vision. More fediverse stuff, the better I thought.
But then there was the whole karma rating and all that other stuff. Then seeing how he would reply to people who brought stuff up.
Now this. Fuck that guy. He’s proving himself to be an ass. Which sucks, because I really wanted to like him.
Total PTB!
Drama again? 😐
BPR - I tried to look at this from both points of view. Both parties have had beef in the past, so tempers are going to be quick on both sides.
Rimu could have done things differently, but AGPL is AGPL. There’s no requirement to provide attribution unless the license is specifically modified. The PyLova license doesn’t add that requirement from what I can tell. The creator(s) of PyLova are getting a little too upset about this, so it’s a reasonable reaction to delete a comment that isn’t really made in good faith.
If they would like attribution in the code, why don’t they act like adults and reach out?
why don’t they act like adults and reach out?
because Rimu blocked us for making the fork in the first place. we tried to reach out when we offered him patches for the zero-days that .ML user dropped, and he refused them before copy/pasting them to Piefed and purging the Piefed Matrix channel of anyone who called him out for being a manbaby. even MrKaplan said he was out of line when he admitted that he did it that way specifically so that Mia did not get credit for the code SHE wrote. these were bugs that had existed in Piefed, PyLova devs fixed them, and we offered them as a peace offering to Rimu since he was mad we forked his software.
well, he burnt that bridge. now, if anyone wants to see further Piefed security vulnerabilities, they can just watch the PyLova changelog. we’re not going to go out of our way to help him fix his shit anymore, and we’re not going to keep security patches on the down low just to protect him and his shoddy fucking code.
MrKaplan does seem like the most level headed person in this from the little bit that I’ve read, but that doesn’t make him the AGPL police.
On the topic of “should the comment have been deleted”, I still see it as BPR. The overall tone wasn’t in good faith, combined with previous beefs. You can’t be surprised that the comment was deleted.
a BPR on a post Rimu lied in to gether sympathy from idiots. we don’t need to be level-headed, we didn’t start this fight and we aren’t the ones who keep dragging the drama back up. we’re not the narcissistic loser who can’t stand that he isn’t in control of his little fiefdom anymore or that people aren’t fawning over him like he demands. we also aren’t the ones who purged our communities of everyone who didn’t pass a Trump-style loyalty test.
Rimu can get fucked. PyLova is now beyond his control, headed for a hard fork, and has more features and better security than Piefed ever did or ever will. and since he’s pulling this shit, I’m considering rewriting the entire thing from scratch so we can use a license that requires attribution. so that the next time he uses patches we wrote to fix his shoddy code, he has to prominently display attribution to us since I know that will piss him off to no end.
You don’t need all that. Just put a blurb for copyrights and license in each file, then it’s against the licence to remove it.
I’m considering rewriting the entire thing from scratch so we can use a license that requires attribution
From what I’ve heard from others around here, attribution is required with AGPL as long as the author puts a copyright in somehow. Beyond that I’m clueless, but this whole thing seems like people got really worked up over their own mistake. Lesson learned, I guess.
No. The AGPL requires declaring alterations to the code. You cannot alter the license. And you must attribute the original author.
Rimu did not declare alterations and attempted to remove attribution.
You seem pretty sure of that, but I don’t see any of that in the actual AGPL license.
Section 5
This has already been debated on the internet and I’m not an expert so I’m giving up. I guess it boils down to what is a “copyright”, and if the source in this case (PyLova) has a copright notice that needs to be copied over. That’s beyond my expertise.
Edit:
Read this if you want to, but I'm not completely convinced that I'm right
“5”. Conveying Modified Source Versions.
You may convey a work based on the Program, or the modifications to produce it from the Program, in the form of source code under the terms of section 4, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:
a) The work must carry prominent notices stating that you modified it, and giving a relevant date.
b) The work must carry prominent notices stating that it is released under this License and any conditions added under section 7. This requirement modifies the requirement in section 4 to “keep intact all notices”.
c) You must license the entire work, as a whole, under this License to anyone who comes into possession of a copy. This License will therefore apply, along with any applicable section 7 additional terms, to the whole of the work, and all its parts, regardless of how they are packaged. This License gives no permission to license the work in any other way, but it does not invalidate such permission if you have separately received it.
d) If the work has interactive user interfaces, each must display Appropriate Legal Notices; however, if the Program has interactive interfaces that do not display Appropriate Legal Notices, your work need not make them do so.A compilation of a covered work with other separate and independent works, which are not by their nature extensions of the covered work, and which are not combined with it such as to form a larger program, in or on a volume of a storage or distribution medium, is called an “aggregate” if the compilation and its resulting copyright are not used to limit the access or legal rights of the compilation’s users beyond what the individual works permit. Inclusion of a covered work in an aggregate does not cause this License to apply to the other parts of the aggregate.
Thanks. I’m trying to understand where you’re seeing the requirement to give attribution still.
I read this section as "if you use code from an AGPL project (PyLova in this case), then you need to:
a) have a dated commit on the project that is using it (PieFed)
b) keep the license the same
c) the entire project (PieFed) now falls under this license (it does)
d) have legal notices about it being AGPL, unless the original source (PieFed, then PyLova, then PieFed again) don’t have them.Then there’s a paragraph about aggregate projects and how the AGPL license doesn’t automatically spread to all parts of those projects.
So I’m still confused where it’s required to say “Mia was the author”. All it’s saying is “this is AGPL code – keep it AGPL and make the code available for others to see.”
Oh, I didn’t realize you meant the attribution. Section 5 is about declaring changes. Attribution comes from including the original license, which should have a line like
"Copyright (C) <year> <name of author>", per the AGPL text.It doesn’t look like PyLova changed this when forking, because the top of the license file attributes the project to the FSF, and the bottom of the file attributes it to rimu. So both projects screwed this part up, because piefed should contain a line like “portions of this software copyright 2026 rimu atkinson”, and after picking the changes from PyLova, piefed should have “portions of this software copyright 2026” whoever is the author of the portions used.
It’s a common practice and one of the few “moral rights” recognized in the Berne Convention:
Article 6bis
Moral Rights:
1. To claim authorship; to object to certain modifications and other derogatory actions;
2. After the author’s death; 3. Means of redress(1) Independently of the author’s economic rights, and even after the transfer of the said rights, the author shall have the right to claim authorship of the work […]
Edit to add: Death to Copyright Laws!
🔁 in a few comms😁
yw
