If you want revolutionary action:
- Start or contribute to a community garden
- Help round up unused meds to distribute to people in need
- Help with Food Not Bombs
- Donate clothing and other goods
- Stop buying needless shit
- Pirate everything; subscribe to nothing
- Donate school supplies
- Tear down and disable Flock cameras
- Attend public forums and speak up to your local officials
Revolution is never going to be one big action or event that kicks off. Not like the movies try to convey it. It’s a collective rejection of things we have control over—most of which involve our wallets.
You wanna vote? Vote. Don’t want to? Don’t. The reality and the thing that folks need to grasp is that the ruling class will never let you vote away their power. Argue all day long; it doesn’t matter. It’s a fact. You can either sit around wishing you had the power to flip a switch, or you can do things on a local level to help those in need.
I’d also add joining a revolutionary party.
Or hijack and revolutionize a party with the infrastructure to win.
Entryism historically doesn’t work well. Even if a political party were to flip, winning electorally still doesn’t let you establish socialism within the confines of capitalism. You still need revolution.
Entryism historically has faired better than a “revolutionary” third party. No party aside from Dems and Republicans have controlled congress or the presidency since the 1850s. More recently we have seen political flips. FDR’s New Deal coalition failed to include LGBTQIA+, but the coalition survived 30ish years with prosperity for the working class* before ultimately being destroyed by Nixon and ultimately Reagan.
My point being, that the last 2 times revolutionary politics wete introduced (FDR and Reaganism/Trumpism) it led to YEARS of success for the party:
Healthy, well-regulated capitalism is complementary to socialism. In a world of abundance capitalism gives power to the workers to choose how they want to spend their time and to work on the projects they’re passionate and proud of, while socialism evens the playing field for kids to be able to grow up and participate on an equal footing, and it enables entrepreneurs to take greater risks to advance society’s collective prosperity. Healthy, well-regulated (but still flawed) capitalism existed for under 50 years. It did not address bigotry and other social injustices, as society was considered to be a monolith of white men. Socialism in this same time frame would have had the same issues: unaddressed bigotry and unequal footing.
It should also be noted that legislation has increasingly made it more difficult for a 3rd party to participate. So while there was limited success in 2000, States have made it more difficult for third parties to have success.
We need a revolution. I would rather a peaceful revolution, and I’m sure you would too. But regardless of the shape the revolution takes, following a path of least resistance is a less labor intensive way to grow a movement, and it’s a playbook that has worked well against the LGBTQIA+ community.
“Trans people shouldn’t play sports” offends fewer people than “trans people shouldn’t live” even though they mean the same thing. That’s why Republicans have hit sports so hard. It’s why they targeted local drag shows not Ru Paul’s Drag Race. Take a page from their book. Tea party the shit out of the Democrats.
If you want to build a movement quick, get quick wins. Boycott a local restaurant for hosting a Nazi candidate, as opposed to boycotting Walmart. Creating a 3rd party pushes an elected revolution back by a minimum of 4 years (since many states dont give ballot access unless you hit 5% in the previous election).
*Of course, the cis straight white folk faired the best
There’s a few critical misunderstandings you have.
Revolution is not simply change. Revolution is the conquest of state power by one class against the previous. Both FDR and Reagan serve the capitalist class, neither was a revolution but instead a shift in how capital dictates.
Further, you are entirely erasing imperialism. The New Deal grew alongside the US Empire. It was a way to export the contradictions within society to the global south. With the 50s onward, the US Empire was the world hegemon, super-exploiting the global south for super profits. Domestically, ethnic minorities and indigenous peoples were crushed, alongside LGBTQIA+ people. Internationally, the global south was horrendously butchered for profit. It is through the exploitation of the global south that both capitalism and a large welfare net remained.
The rise of Reagan was the triumph of imperialist capital reaching a new stage. Neoliberalism is the imperialism of the modern era, where finance capital has shifted from simple capital export to neocolonialism and unequal exchange.
“Healthy, well-regulated capitalism” cannot exist, nor can it be complementary to socialism. Markets can play a part in either system, but the question of who society serves is determined by which class controls the state and the commanding heights of the economy. China has a socialist market economy, and leverages this to uplift the people. Finland, the other user’s previous example, has a capitalist economy, and uses it to plunder the global south and bribe their domestic working class.
Socialism is not welfare. Socialism is not the public sector. Socialism is a system, as capitalism is. There is no such thing as an “elected revolution.”
What is critically necessary is revolutionary organizing for the purpose of overthrowing the old, capitalist state apparatus, and creating a new worker state. This has been done around the world successfully many times before, and we need to learn from their efforts. Not simply hide imperialism and hope to share in the spoils of it.
Do you mind defining:
-Capitalism (or the US’s economy, taking into account utilities, imperialism, and government sectors such as military/oil)
-Socialist Market Economy
Capitalism is a mode of production and distribution where private ownership is the principal aspect of the economy (ie rising, dominant, and in control of the commanding heights), and the capitalist class controls the state. Imperialism as a stage in capitalism is where bank and industrial capital monopolize and consolidate, creating finance capital, which pivots to export of capital rather than simple commodities. Since the state is capitalist, the public sector serves the capitalist class above all else.
Socialism is a mode of production and distribution where public ownership is the principal aspect of the economy, and the working classes control the state. The socialist market economy is a form of developing socialism where marketization is employed in a controlled manner to support the development of the productive forces, which are the bedrock of developed socialism. Just as public ownership in capitalism is not socialism, private ownership in the context of a socialist system is not capitalism either.
revolutionary politics wete introduced (FDR and Reaganism/Trumpism)
You really can just say anything these days
Both fundamentally changed the country, yes.
They didn’t even do that, let alone be revolutionary.
Deeply unserious person.
revolutionary politics wete introduced (FDR and Reaganism/Trumpism)
You really can just say anything these days
If your starting point is the US you could still move towards something like Finland without a revolution.
Be part of the cultural change that would be required for that.
Finland is still an imperialist country, that’s why it has the system it does without revolution. They simply exported the major contradictions within society to the global south, aligning their proletariat and bourgeoisie against the global south. Capitalists still dominate Finland and workers don’t have power, they just have more generous welfare, which could be taken away at any time by the capitalists if conditions changed and imperialism weakened.
The “more generous welfare” has been going for a while (source: i live in this shithole), and it will keep going down as conditions have changed and imperialism has weakened. Having joined NATO just in time to witness the US throw the EU under the bus to save its own ass financially speaking, the current European conflict demands our state to increase its defence budget to 5% of GDP. The bourgeoisie government will resort to increasing stripping of social programs, and in turn drive further privatization of healthcare etc. The impotent left and other controlled opposition parties will pay lip service to reversing these policies in hopes of winning some more seats in the next election, but will never manage to do anything substantial because the state lacks the funds to pay healthcare workers (especially the nurses and janitorial services) living wages. Eventually it won’t matter, as all parties serve the same masters and clearly taking care of the most vulnerable and marginalized in this society costs too much. Russia serves as a scapegoat for these policies, as the war in Ukraine is intrinsically linked to these policies but most people will seemingly just stop thinking once the discussion reaches this part. I think there was a conscious effort by the Powers to inflate the amount of public discussion and media directly comparing the Winter War to the Russian SMO in Ukraine, in order to get more of the population on board the NATO bullshit and ever-increasing military spending (which, in a way, isn’t necessarily a false comparison; most just won’t mention the amount of fascists on “our” side in both conflicts, oddly enough). The brainwashing and propagandizing begins at birth for the contemporary Finn, and unless subjected to the monstrous true face of the “welfare state” through their material conditions they lack the capability to reach class consciousness and will be helpless against the overwhelming power of the US/EU misinformation onslaught.
Sorry to hear that, that sounds fairly bleak. This just goes to show the critical importance of organizing work even within the empire, and how consistently building a revolutionary party is an arduous but worthwhile cause. Good luck!
I would rather liberals don’t have a revolution, last thing I want is more liberalism
Liberal revolution be like:
My wife made that exact same joke when I told her about this
Same applies to modern protest. A big rule of thumb for this shit is: Can the evil leaders ignore what you’re doing? If so, they will. If you cry about how there should be “no kings;” you’re essentially hoping that the worst people on earth suddenly develop a conscience, hear your plea, and correct all of the bad things they’ve done. No, they’ll just ignore it. Here are some disruptions to the status quo that they can’t ignore:
- The economy (go on strike, protest on weekdays, don’t be orderly, in-fact, be a total nuisance to the day-to-day operations in a city - preferably a “high value” location)
- The panopticon (ruin the surveillance state - protest the cameras, protest the data centers (also helps the last point), protest the infrastructure that these things rely on)
- Their livelyhood (protest where they live. And there’s plenty to choose from; the shear number of people whose decisions actively fuck your life is astounding)
Just remember: don’t harm anyone or anything. Protest them. Got it? Good.
Joining a union or creating one is one of the most subversive things one can do in this day and age. Propaganda for unions is very effective at leveraging the class schism in favour of workers/socialism.
Just don’t a union that advocates creating large weaponry or represents law enforcement/servants of the state.
Proper unionising makes capitalists piss their pants. I have read a ton about politics and it seems to really give you the most bang for your buck.
Unions are good, but you also need a political party that can go beyond trade unionism into an all-sided class struggle.
I would tend to agree on the class party aspect, but as with anything there is an outward motion. The most effective struggle doesn’t start at the higher levels of abstraction. Egoism comes first, not in the Stirnerian sense, where people make sure they are not deported by ice, where military service is eschewed, where when arrested the fifth amendment is kept in mind. The next stage would be tenant unions, trade unions, more organised forms of struggle. Then education, reading circles, discussions, talks and so on. I see the party as the capstone of all of these working class interests. Ultimately it becomes the expression of our species’ interest towards the end of class struggle.
Ultimately, without a party, unions retain their present level of struggle. This means they are highly localized around their own interests, and not the interests of the working class as a whole. This is why a party is necessary to begin with, so that unions can be more militant, connected, and disciplined from the beginning. No time is too early for a party.
Where I am from there are like 8 different leftists parties laying claim to the same chunk of people. There will be one big and relevant party in the end, but getting there has the danger of a bajillion parties competing and creating noise rather than directed struggle. XKCD standards meme
Sure, that’s why having a clear and correct party line is important.
bingo
That’s how it’s always been, look at pre-revolutionary russia same there.
I get what you are saying, the Russian revolution was a success despite sharing a feature that was a great hindrance. I think though that saying “X has always been like this” has a somewhat ahistorical quality to it. There is simply no good knowledge of the future.
Harm reduction voting is kicking the can down the road, or in Christian terms ‘robbing peter to pay paul’
It’s based in fear and cowardice. The only way we will ever change anything is if we are collectively fearless and fucking stand for principles
but liberals at least talk about things like operation orange chicken with the discussion as the main part of their resistance movement
we should call Trump “cheeto” or “orangutan” even more often, it’s like 10x effective than silly stuff like organizing for revolution for the proletariat
This is propaganda meant to discourage voter turnout so the oligarchs can remain in control
Yeah man, the oligarchs really give a shit which of their figureheads you vote for in the elections they control.
you cannot vote someone who isn’t an oligarch my brother. that’s the whole point of bourgeois “”“”“democracy”“”"
It’s not about the wealthiest 0.5%, the oligarchs as you’d call them. All of this revolves around the struggle against capitalism. Workers (about 60 to 70% of society depending on the definition and employment rates) against the bourgeoisie (~15% including petit bourgeoisie).
why is it with y’all that something you disagree with is never just a bad take, but always some grand conspiracy?
- i promise you the oligarchs do not give a shit about influencing the 1000 monthly active users on this network
- they’d find it much more fruitful to influence the only opposition party instead, and. okay sit with me for a second. i have some bad news for you.
Not if you choose the Democratic socialist that establishment democrats are fighting against
Demsocs are social democrats who still do not understand that you cannot reform capitalism into socialism.
Capitalists retain control whether the DNC or GOP is in power, the only thing that changes is which faction of capitalists is currently in charge.
The democrats, famously not at all oligarchs or in any way related to Epstein or any other ghoulish shit
As an immigrant, go fuck yourself.
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Adventurism is not revolution.
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As if you’d know: one post ago you thought Luigi’s adventurism was revolutionary.
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The point was that you clearly don’t know anything about revolutions
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No officer, I don’t think I will.
Groups like the Party for Socialism and Liberation are at the forefront of salient political organizing in the US, and are growing constantly. I think we should join orgs like it and expand the organizing of the working classes.
Revolution has never happened
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No it’s true, no revolution has ever happened and everyone who ever thought they did one was wrong. Nobody is a revolutionary and there is no hope of ever becoming one, leaving us with no path but to do nothing and contribute only hopeless navel gazing. I am a very serious communist.
Adventurism isn’t revolution, it’s a refusal to study theory before taking action. I will never condemn Luigi but to claim his actions were revolutionary fails to explain how they meaningfully gained worker power.
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No power was gained by the working classes. We are not a step further in gaining socialism. The reason there was no follow-up is because it was an adventurist, disorganized act, and organization is fundamental to revolutionary change.
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How does it not? A random assassination isn’t revolutionary, nor does it advance the worker struggle. Organizing does, it positions us in a better place for revolution.
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Without revolutionary theory, there can be no revolutionary practice. Random assassinations aren’t revolutionary. Organizing in a revolutionary party is revolutionary because it advances the revolutionary position.
risk being locked up revolutionary. lmao bro, you libs don’t even have the slightest idea what the fuck true political organization means. you mfs believe revolution is a one man call of duty mission. the gringo states is truly the most backward brainwashed nation on earth.
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did i say that? no
political organization is way more relevant and actually does something. voting who bourgeois is going to fuck you in the ass with blue or red paint does absolutely nothing but to legitimize your fascist empire.
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Strikes have given you basically every working right you currently have, if that’s what doing nothing looks like then I don’t know what to say.
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Strikes are more revolutionary than adventurism, and historically have succeeded far more than simple assassination at getting concessions. They are also practice and discipline for actual revolution.
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We need to advance organization, not just commit adventurism.
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You were praising adventurism as revolutionary.
Striking is the bread and butter of revolutionary activity. The February revolution in Russia was a mass strike that escalated to a point the state could no longer control it. What do you think revolutionary activity looks like?
You are right, people are striking less now than they used to which is a major reason why things are getting worse: cost of living increasing, wages stagnating, the rich getting richer etc.
We need to unite as workers and strike, not vote, for the conditions we deserve.
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Popular support is needed for a revolution to happen. But striking even on a smaller scale is steel still a very effective way at gaining larger action from the population.
Earlier you said risking being thrown in jail was something revolutionaries should do. What do you mean by that and why would it be more effective than going on strike?
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Sorry for late reply lol
Reaction of violence by the capitalist state is definitely a common side effect of larger strikes and is a certainty during revolution. But the effectiveness or revolutionary status of an action shouldn’t be measured by how violent a reaction it gets from the capitalist state. We should be striving for the greatest change with the least negative outcome, not aiming to risk dying or going to jail.
Of course a single small scale strike isn’t going to cause a revolution. But it’s still revolutionary in the fact that it builds class consciousness and paves the way for further action. A single strike certainly does more than voting.
^fedposting
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The only person doing something revolutionary in liberal countries in recent years is Luigi. And he has the balls to admit that he did it. Beyond that, any other protest has been much closer to voting than to an uprising.
I wouldn’t say he’s the only person, there’s been a lot of scattered protests lately (not counting peaceful marches) and destroying Flock cameras has become a social media trend, but other than that I mostly agree with your point
The way you get people to join the revolution is to help them, you have to give them as much of a taste of what your idealogy can bring as you can. You don’t need to be a part of government to do that, but it helps you reach more people. When people say get organized, one of the things that mean js being a part of local government and that requires someone to vote for you. Mamdani has done more for socialism in America then anything else has in a long time. This isn’t to say americans shouldn’t revolt, they absolutely should, but local representation is intrincincly linked to that, and they can take the form of union reps, community leaders and yes even local politicians.
Exactly. And especially getting involved locally, where you can have a greater influence and more readily make a difference.
This is how Trump got elected a second time.
And for the record, those of you who didn’t vote are the ones truly responsible for this shit. Fuck you and the ivory tower you stand on.
By all means, organize a revolution. But do damage control now and fucking vote instead of letting things get far worse before that can happen
no, trump got elected precisely because of shits like you. trump exists because bluemaga bullshit keep doing their shit of allowing more and more the right wingers. trump is a direct consequence of the uselessness of the bluemaga fascists. trump exists because the international policy of blue and red maga are fucking indistinguishable. the same fucking policy of killing brown people, of stealing, bullying, mafia behaviour. fucking own your fucking shit. it’s much worse you’re not even owning your shit for people outside your fucking fascist empire, we are the ones that suffer the most. not you inside the empire. fucking stop believing in the fucking fairy tale of voting the fascists out, you aint doin fukcing shit but to continously expect nothing of politicians because “its the most important election of our times” and anything is better than the redmaga. then bluemaga just becomes even more fascist than what it is. then redmaga even more. fucking organize, fucking read marxist literature. fucking stop believing cia propaganda. fucking go fuck yourself.
Erm, @mod, what does one do when a mod breaks rule 1?
lol truly the moral high ground.
Schrodinger’s leftist, simultaneously too irrelevant to be worth making any concessions to and also solely responsible for whether the democrats lose the election.
No, it isn’t. Trump got elected the second time because the DNC alienated their traditional voter base by failing to stop supporting genocide and failing to promise necessary change. Leftists protesting did not significantly influence the election, but a failure to galvanize the voterbase did.
“By all means, build a house. But do damage control and fucking let us burn your lumber for warmth now and continuously into the future, thus ensuring you will never finish the house”
