• Authoritarianism is a meaningless term used by edgy children whose brains haven’t fully developed yet. The reality is that all governments rely on coercion to maintain their authority. The state is fundamentally an instrument that’s used by the ruling class to maintain its dominance. The whole notion that political systems can be neatly categorized into authoritarian or democratic binaries is deeply infantile.

      Every government derives its authority from its monopoly on legal violence. The ability to enforce laws, suppress dissent, and maintain order is derived from control over police, military, and judicial systems. Whether a government is labelled authoritarian or democratic, the fundamental basis of its power lies here. Therefore, the only meaningful questions to ask are which class interests it represents, and to what extent can it be held accountable to them.

      What ultimately matters is which class controls the institutions of state violence. In capitalist democracies, the government represent the interests of the economic elites who fund political campaigns, own media outlets, and control key industries. Western public lacks the mechanisms necessary to hold the government to account, and the ruling class is disconnected from the broader population. That’s precisely what’s driving political discontent all across western sphere today. Meanwhile, in so-called authoritarian regimes, the ruling party serves the working class as seen in countries like China, Cuba, or Vietnam. Hence why there is widespread public trust in these government and they enjoy broad support from the masses.

      • The reality is that all governments rely on coercion to maintain their authority.

        Yeah, and isn’t that a problem? Like, why just take for granted that all governments we’ve tried so far are coercive, instead of trying to build one that isn’t?

        • What you might want to think real hard about is why hierarchies form in the first place, and what problem they solve. Then you might start to understand why every society converges on this model at a certain point or it dies out.

          • I’d genuinely like to hear your answer on this, because it’s something I think a lot about as an anarchist. Specifically, do you think the problem power hierarchies solve can only be solved by power hierarchies? Do you think that problem necessarily exists and needs solving in all contexts, perhaps because of some innate human nature? Who is it that has told you this is the case–that the fact that history is filled with hierarchies should be interpreted as “hierarchies are inevitable”–instead of, say, “power over others is an unhealthy coping mechanism humans have consistently turned to in the face of the unknown and maybe we should try to build a society that Doesn’t Do That before we give up and resign ourselves to benevolent kings again”?

            • Not all vertical organization is equivalent. Participating in any worker organization can help explain the importance of administration, and this becomes more and more critical at scale. The question isn’t “top-down” or “bottom-up,” but how to make the two united.

              • This author seems to be confused about what hierarchies are. Hierarchies have nothing to do with division of labor or expertise–you can easily have/recognize both of those things in a horizontal power structure. A hierarchy is about who can coerce whom.

                In the factory example the article gives, the presence of a central organizer/administrator/delegator does not necessarily mean the factory operates hierarchically. To determine if it does, you’d need to ask, “does the organizational structure allow the administrator to have their decisions enforced via actual or threatened violence against people who dissent?” In our capitalist reality, this would be things like firing the dissenter (depriving them of basic survival resources) or calling the cops. In authoritarian “communist” regimes, this might be forced labor or re-education camps.

                You can organize at scale, abstract out certain parts of the organization, etc. without this coercive element. Humans are cooperative creatures; we want to build things together, and we are fully capable of respecting each other while we do so. Why limit the bounds of our liberation by assuming we need this systemic violence to do what we already want to do?

                • It is you who is in fact confused about what hierarchies are because they have absolutely nothing to do with coercion, and have everything to do with division of labour and abstraction. You seem to have a personal definition of what a hierarchy is. Hierarchies do not require any violence whatsoever, and it’s a concept that applies to large range of domains outside politics such as writing computer programs. Next, you’ll be telling me that class hierarchies require threat of violence.

            • 1Malayali ( 1Malayali@lemmy.ml ) 
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              1 month ago

              What is meant by power hierarchy?

              Anyway, asking about a scenario:

              If a pandemic happens and you have to mandate masks or would like to ask people to maintain social distancing, how would you do it? If you mandate and enforce it, you’ll form/expose the hierarchy, right?
              Even if it is a majority vs minority decision, if you enforce it, it’ll show a hierarchy by means of medical expertise or ability of enforcement, right? Or is it seen as natural or justified hierarchies?

              Even if you elect a rep and even if you have options for recall, for your rep to take decisions, you would be giving them power, right?
              Or is it whole organisation voting on each topic?

              do you think the problem power hierarchies solve can only be solved by power hierarchies?

              What are the other alternatives that are used, which do not have hierarchies to better solve the problems?

              resign ourselves to benevolent kings again"

              Not benevolent kings but recallable representatives would be the goal, right?

              In case of socialist experiments, when they are under imperialist threat and fear of sabotage, they may not be able to fully do that, but not benevolent kings.

              • If you mandate and enforce it, you’ll form/expose the hierarchy, right?

                Well, depends on who “you” is and how you “enforce” it. Do you, the person given the systemic authority to do so, throw people in jail/gulags/whatever if they refuse to mask? Then yeah, that’s hierarchical. Do you, a community member, organize with other community members to exclude the non-masker from social events and community spaces until they decide to mask? OR do you, a doctor designated via the community as an expert and thus given narrow, organic, retractable social authority to do so, say “you need to wear a mask”? Then no.

                • organize with other community members to exclude the non-masker from social events and community spaces

                  How do you plan to enforce this exclusion? Putting up a sign, physical removal (violence), non physical punitive measures?

                  • So are we assuming the non-masker is trying to be somewhere they’ve been told they’re not welcome like, as a statement of rebellion? Do they not understand that they’re not welcome or what they need to change to be welcome? Are they trying to be provocative, or are they trying to gain access to the community for some specific purpose?

                    “Enforcing this exclusion” is really broad. It has the underlying assumption that the situation is already violent, that there is a thing to enforce against someone who is “disobeying” the thing. Which I’d argue comes from the fact that we’ve really only lived in police states in modern history. Again, humans are social creatures–we want community and we want to feel included. And we don’t consciously do things to each other for no reason. I urge you to think deeply about where the need for “enforcement” comes from, and what we mean by it.

                • 1Malayali ( 1Malayali@lemmy.ml ) 
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                  1 month ago

                  Do you, a community member, organize with other community members to exclude the non-masker from social events and community spaces until they decide to mask?

                  Is that not hierarchical too?
                  And what do you do if they do not allow themselves to be excluded from community spaces?

                  Are you not bringing in hierarchy when you give yourself and your group the power to choose whether the person or group who disagrees should be excluded from community spaces?

                  And what do you do when they do not agree? Do you jail them? Do you harm them or threaten violence?

                  Are you not creating/exposing the hierarchy by choosing to exclude those parts of your community from community spaces for disagreeing with you?

                  a doctor designated via the community as an expert and thus given narrow, organic, retractable social authority to do so, say “you need to wear a mask”?

                  So, again a power hierarchy in the matter of medicine, where you a lay person has lesser power?

                  And the people opposing the masking, will not be agreeing with that doctor, right? So not designated by the all of the community as a expert in that specific topic then.
                  If the person acknowledged the expertise, then the issue would not persist, right?

                  Do you threaten or propagandise someone that they would not oppose that position and obey it then? Power hierarchy again, right?

      • drolex ( drolex@sopuli.xyz ) 
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        1 month ago

        Authoritarianism is a meaningless term used by edgy children whose brains haven’t fully developed yet

        You tend to lose a bit of credibility when you start your argument with this kind of sentences. After that you would need to prove that your reasoning is at least as qualitative, as, say, Hannah Arendt’s work, and unfortunately it is far off the mark.

      • sgnl ( sgnl@midwest.social ) 
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        1 month ago

        If you don’t like the word authoritarian why did you use it? And why did you get defensive when someone agreed with your image.

        Even sarcastically I don’t see what you goal here was. To say the us and the soviet union are similarly inhumane? Or the us is slightly worse?

        Ok, and?

      • Authoritarianism is a meaningless term used by edgy children whose brains haven’t fully developed yet.

        Authoritarian AF. lmao

        The reality is that all governments rely on coercion to maintain their authority. The reality is that all governments rely on coercion to maintain their authority. The state is fundamentally an instrument that’s used by the ruling class to maintain its dominance… Every government derives its authority from its monopoly on legal violence.

        This is called authoritarianism, silly.

        The whole notion that political systems can be neatly categorized into authoritarian or democratic binaries is deeply infantile.

        Nobody is saying this except you. Infantile strawman.

    • As are all states. The important distinction between them isn’t the degree by which authority is used, which is largely decided by the conditions a state is in rather than the form of the state itself, but instead is which class controls the state. The USSR was run by the working classes, the US by capitalists.